Shop owner publishes semi-scientific wheel test - MTBR loses its mind....

[Damian Sanders]

Funny that one of the most thorough and scientific bike component tests in the USA is heavily criticized by MTBR posters who rely exclusively on anecdotes, group-think, and bike industry pseudo-science...........

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...s-1042636.html

https://www.dirtmerchantbikes.com/sp...stans-flow-mk3

Also worth checking out his tire tests. Confirms that DHF's are the best and Schwable sucks.

[TahoeJ]

Well... this reinforces my personal experiences. I think the tire you have on there is a lot more important than the rim (within reason).

30 PSI seems high for testing though.

Love DHF's.

[funkendrenchman]

My anecdotal experience shows a negligible difference in Strava times between a 1700g LB wheelset and a 1900g Stans wheelset. Same tires, same pressure, same trails, many rides.

[adrenalated]

I thought this was going to be about the superiority of 26" wheels. I'm disappointed.

[spindrift]

I think the rather optimistic word in the thread title is "semi".

If I read this right, each rider rode each wheel set up once and down once. No correction was done for ride order. Nothing was blind. Etc. A population of 5....

[Damian Sanders]

I think the rather optimistic word in the thread title is "semi".

If I read this right, each rider rode each wheel set up once and down once. No correction was done for ride order. Nothing was blind. Etc. A population of 5....

Nobody is saying it's a fully scientific experiment. But it's a strong effort at a back to back test with the variables minimized. Much better than trying something a company sends you and giving your subjective impressions.

[bsavery]

Nobody is saying it's a fully scientific experiment. But it's a strong effort at a back to back test with the variables minimized. Much better than trying something a company sends you and giving your subjective impressions.

For someone who talks so much about "east coast gnar" trails, you shouldn't look too hard at anything that uses Grand Ridge as it's test track. Pretty much the opposite of a tech trail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcYQO3dN4iQ

[Damian Sanders]

For someone who talks so much about "east coast gnar" trails, you shouldn't look too hard at anything that uses Grand Ridge as it's test track. Pretty much the opposite of a tech trail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcYQO3dN4iQ

Those guys are really slow.

[funkendrenchman]

Those guys are really slow.

They're on Stan's.

[plugboots]

TL;DR, but slicks on my SS work on Grand Ridge.

[mfa81]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcYQO3dN4iQ

why is he tired?

as flawed as it is, it's free advice and seems like they are buying the wheels so should take it for what it's worth...

tough the tire pressure was a total nonsense!

[Lindahl]

My anecdotal experience shows a negligible difference in Strava times between a 1700g LB wheelset and a 1900g Stans wheelset. Same tires, same pressure, same trails, many rides.

Their tests found negligible time differences too. The differences they found were in steering, comfort and deflection.

[kidwoo]

That's pretty elaborate.


I never thought I'd say this but thanks for posting that damian.

I just read the dirtmerchant test. I don't give a shit what anyone on mtbr thinks.

[Gunder]

For what it's worth there tests are garbage. After reading there tire tests last year I went with there Recs and the tire combo straight up sucked compared to almost anything else I have ridden.

As far as the wheel tests go I've done back to back seasons on the light bicycle rims and Enve's. I honestly can't tell any actual real world performance differences between the two. Sure the Enves are a bit stiffer but hubs have a much greater effect on you're overall speed and resistance then rims do.
At the end of the day the main difference between Enve and LB is finish quality, ease of sealing the valve stems, and whether or not you want easy access to spoke nipples for trueing.

[kidwoo]

I honestly can't tell any actual real world performance differences between the two.

Yeah someone should try to do a test that at least attempts to take some of the subjectivity out of it.











..........

I agree on his tire mess last year. Less than useless.

[funkendrenchman]

Their tests found negligible time differences too. The differences they found were in steering, comfort and deflection.

To be honest, I didn't notice much difference there either.

[ACH]

For what it's worth there tests are garbage. After reading there tire tests last year I went with there Recs and the tire combo straight up sucked compared to almost anything else I have ridden.

Missed this, is there a link someone can shortcut me to?

[Damian Sanders]

Missed this, is there a link someone can shortcut me to?

https://www.dirtmerchantbikes.com/reviews/

I think the tire tests are great. You need to consider the conditions and what their parameters are. They provide an exhaustive amount of detail.


I do admit they could be slightly over inflating their tires, and some tires might benefit or be hampered by that.

[ACH]

https://www.dirtmerchantbikes.com/reviews/

I think the tire tests are great. You need to consider the conditions and what their parameters are. They provide an exhaustive amount of detail.


I do admit they could be slightly over inflating their tires, and some tires might benefit or be hampered by that.

TKS

IDK - Maybe the tests aren't perfect but they will likely evolve over time through the feedback they get on the webz.

One positive thing I can see out of this, is that they are at least making an attempt to compare the products they are purchasing for resale to their customer base.
This goes a step beyond many retailers who either do not have or take the time or are simply satisfied with letting editorial reviews do the heavy lifting.

I don't think their reviews are perfect either - especially some of the tire comparisons, however there is still useful information that can be gleaned from them.

Edited to add: I don't think the tire inflation is an accident - There are a lot of people out there that run a higher tire pressure than they need to just out of an over abundance of caution and not wanting to deal with tire issues on the trail. Guys and gals that know, also already know what tires they want to run, the large cross section of the market however is a different story.

[Gunder]

TKS

IDK - Maybe the tests aren't perfect but they will likely evolve over time through the feedback they get on the webz.

One positive thing I can see out of this, is that they are at least making an attempt to compare the products they are purchasing for resale to their customer base.
This goes a step beyond many retailers who either do not have or take the time or are simply satisfied with letting editorial reviews do the heavy lifting.

I don't think their reviews are perfect either - especially some of the tire comparisons, however there is still useful information that can be gleaned from them.

Edited to add: I don't think the tire inflation is an accident - There are a lot of people out there that run a higher tire pressure than they need to just out of an over abundance of caution and not wanting to deal with tire issues on the trail. Guys and gals that know, also already know what tires they want to run, the large cross section of the market however is a different story.

To me it sure looks like they are using the "tests" as a way to push products that they most likely have higher margins on.

[ACH]

To me it sure looks like they are using the "tests" as a way to push products that they most likely have higher margins on.

Entirely possible - It could also be that they were also looking for a way to justify that move at the same time as well.
Should they be faulted for that though?

[kidwoo]

The margins on enves actually aren't that high. They're a ripoff all the way up the chain.

I met one of the guys from knight and talked to him a good bit over a camping/riding weekend. The knight stuff probably has a bigger margin.

Not saying you're wrong just adding some info.

[TBS]

FWIW, my LBS has given up on Enve. Shit shows up way late, hubs not assembled correctly or parts missing, call them up and replacement shit shows up late & defective.
YMMV.

[reckless toboggan]

For someone who talks so much about "east coast gnar" trails, you shouldn't look too hard at anything that uses Grand Ridge as it's test track. Pretty much the opposite of a tech trail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcYQO3dN4iQ

Yup. That's what we call wheelchair accessible around here.

[bsavery]

To me it sure looks like they are using the "tests" as a way to push products that they most likely have higher margins on.

Yup. Or the products they sell. Can't find it now but they some other comparo at interbike, and surprise, the Turner was far and away the best bike they ever ridden. That and Schwalbe tires were the sh1t in all their older reviews until they started carrying Maxxis...