Tyrolia Attack vs Look Pivot vs Salomon STH2 Bindings

[Island Bay]

Just got a pair of Attack 14at for 100£. Looking forward to giving them a go.

[ScrewYou]

Good deal, anyone ordered from Ellis-Brigham before this?? Seems like they are a big, reputable store over there

[Island Bay]

They are a reputable dealer from what I've heard, but no first hand experience. I would happily have ordered through them had they had 110 brakes in stock. £70 is a smoking deal.

[ScrewYou]

Damnit, someone just swooped the 130mm brake from me!!

[Muggydude]

Interesting. http://www.powder7.com/ski-blog/2018...dings-preview/

Little bit tempting to wait for them but prices will be retail for a while once they come out

[johnnyg82]

Damn, good prices: https://www.ellis-brigham.com/sale/e...ski-equipment#

[Muggydude]

Elasticity Info. Makes sense for retention/release consistency of Pivot being superior to others considering heel elasticity is almost twice the others, and heel and toe elasticity are much closer to eachother.

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...-binding-guide

Assuming the same elasticity for the old attack line vs the new one:

STH2: Heel Elasticity: 16mm Toe Elasticity: 52mm
Attack: Heel Elasticity: 16mm Toe Elasticity: 30mm
Pivot: Heel Elasticty: 28mm Toe Elasticity: 40mm

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

The Attack 13 has a ton of toe height adjustability

Not enough for anything besides a full-on alpine boot. None of my boots are the alpine (iso 5355) DIN norm anymore.

[gregorys]

While you didn't ask this, I thought I'd mention it.
As I've noted before, I really like having demo bindings. This last week, I had five different skis skied by four or five different people all with different release settings and BSL's. Having demo bindings is just dang handy.

I have some demo Solly's, Marker Griffin and the Attack [both the old plate/track style and the new separate heel/toe that I like most.]

I have nothing really bad to say about any of them, in terms of release/retention. I think [anecdotal evidence] the Solly's have the least elasticity, followed by the attacks [quite a lot better] and the Markers are the best. IMO, there's a substantial gap between each.

HOWEVER, I FREEKING HATE THE MARKERS.
Especially in deep snow, trying to get into the Griff's is horrible. The amount of force required is way higher than the Attacks. In one case, [a deep pow day] I boot-packed over a rock band and then tried to get the Griffs on. Even in nearly flat terrain, I had to dig around and excavate a perfectly flat platform and tenderfoot my way into the binding. If I didn't get them prefectly flat, I'd try to lever in, and the ski would go off-kilter and slide off sideways, so I couldn't get in at all. Took minutes. [And, no, I don't have Tourettes syndrome. ]

That same procedure in Solly's or Attacks would have been trivial. 10 seconds or less.

So, for me, that's a pretty substantial deal. Since I'm a bottom-feeder, price is often as big a deal as anything - but I would definitely lean toward the Attacks vs the Griffs with most everything else being equal.

A few other bonuses for the Attack Demo. [And some of these apply to the regular non-demo too.]
-Easier and much faster more precise BSL adjust than the Marker. About the same as Solly.
-Even DIN adjust, while close, is easier on the Attack.
-You won't smash your thumb(nail) on the Attack while adjusting DIN either, like you likely will on the Marker. [Yeah, the skis on a bench/table - push down the Marker heel piece with your thumb sticking down - MASH into the top-sheet. Yay! Feels so good!]
-Back-pressure indicator is a lot easier to see on the Attack vs the Solly. [About the same as Marker.]

One draw-back on the Attack. The new Attack 13 demo heel-piece is a six-screw setup, so not as handy if you're using BF inserts. [IIRC the Solly and Marker for four screw each.]

There's nothing functionally wrong with the Marker, it's just not that great of a binding, IMO.
The simplicity of the Attack 13 Demo along with a few of those smaller details is just pretty dang nice.

I've skied on the Attack 13 demo a lot the last couple of years. Also lots of Solly [STH12?] and Marker with some Axial.

[ScrewYou]

HOWEVER, I FREEKING HATE THE MARKERS.
Especially in deep snow, trying to get into the Griff's is horrible. The amount of force required is way higher than the Attacks. In one case, [a deep pow day] I boot-packed over a rock band and then tried to get the Griffs on. Even in nearly flat terrain, I had to dig around and excavate a perfectly flat platform and tenderfoot my way into the binding. If I didn't get them prefectly flat, I'd try to lever in, and the ski would go off-kilter and slide off sideways, so I couldn't get in at all. Took minutes. [And, no, I don't have Tourettes syndrome. ]

I'm having a hard time understanding how Tourettes syndrome would affect this?

[gregorys]

<thread digression>
Motor tics

Motor tics are movements. Simple motor tics include but are not limited to: eye blinking, facial grimacing, jaw movements, head bobbing/jerking, shoulder shrugging, neck stretching, and arm jerking. Complex motor tics involve multiple muscle groups or combinations of movements and tend to be slower and more purposeful in appearance,(e.g., hopping, twirling, jumping).

</thread digression>

[XXX-er]

While you didn't ask this, I thought I'd mention it.
As I've noted before, I really like having demo bindings. This last week, I had five different skis skied by four or five different people all with different release settings and BSL's. Having demo bindings is just dang handy..

Other than maybe the extra weight I gotta agree I was on some 4frnt deadbolts demos (tyrolia?) for a few seasons which really worked fine and the big bonus I was able to check out a bunch of different mounting points

mostly I just ski whatever comes on the ski or is on sale

There are marker griffons on some skis I borrowed for GF and not real impressed by that product

[Muggydude]

Attack 13 Demo is pretty unanimously agreed on as best demo-type binding. Specs:

Weight: 2550g/pair
Stack height: 23mm

The normal attacks have a pretty large boot adjustment range already (although only in the heel so boot center mark moves back for larger boots) for sharing. Problem I have with using demos is on most skis might play around with mount point a few times then settle on one point. Extra 550-600g for the pair over the normal attack 13 is notable (.66lb a ft). How much that weight affects anything I don't know.

For more versatile all mountain skis like Kartel 98,108 I can see using them. Forward of line for park, on line for all mountain, behind it for powder.

I wish the demo and normal shared the same drill pattern. That way you could drill for normal for what you think is going to be best mount point, install demos, see if they ski best there. . If not, remount the toes. Then install the normal bindings

[gregorys]

What is the source of that weight difference?
It's hard to believe that the small metal track for the toe is 500g per pair. [I believe that's really the only difference between the demo and non-demo versions.]

So, just curious where that stat came from? Do we have someone who, first-hand, weighed both?

[Muggydude]

The two metal toe tracks are actually pretty heavy. There is also extra material and parts for the toe piece itself. On the rear the bottom plate has more material plus the extra track. I'd believe it could get up to 500g extra, I haven't weighed mine. Some conflicting info online, see both 2250, 2320g and 2550g.

http://www.powder7.com/Tyrolia-Attac...-Bindings/sale

http://www.untracked.com/p5284c81b52..._bindings.html

https://www.fischersports.com/us_en/o-brake-[d]

http://www.coloradodiscountskis.com/...k_Demo_13.html

[N1CK.]

Safe to assume the red tyrolias are faster?

[Muggydude]

Safe to assume the red tyrolias are faster?

The only safe assumption really

[TahoeJ]

I would bet damn good money you wouldn't be able to tell the the difference in a blind test. Between any of them.

This. I've been on every binding listed and I couldn't tell you the difference, other than the process of stepping into Markers being more difficult.

Now, AT bindings is a different story.

[Duffman]

Damnit, someone just swooped the 130mm brake from me!!

Uhhh, sorry I'll let you know if they actually ship!

[XavierD]

How many Tyrolia Aaatacks will still be rocking along in 12 years? I still have several pairs look/Rossi turntables going back to 2004 production.

[CaliBrit]

How many Tyrolia Aaatacks will still be rocking along in 12 years? I still have several pairs look/Rossi turntables going back to 2004 production.

Why wouldn't they be? I'm sure they will work fine. Maybe they don't have the cool factor so people won't hoard them and tell each other how sweet their 15 year old binders are in the lift line, but this is skiing not fashion.

[ScrewYou]

What kind of metal is in FKS/Pivots? Steel?

Whats the most common plastic in ski bindings?

[Flexon Phil]

#bringbackthepivot15

[gwat]

^what he said

[XavierD]

Why wouldn't they be? I'm sure they will work fine. Maybe they don't have the cool factor so people won't hoard them and tell each other how sweet their 15 year old binders are in the lift line, but this is skiing not fashion.

Material properties of plastics and metals when subjected to repeated stress