Tyrolia Attack vs Look Pivot vs Salomon STH2 Bindings

[Muggydude]

I'm bored, no snow, want to discuss something. All have been discussed before, but not specifically in direct comparison with the other two. Curious what people's thoughts are on these three bindings in comparison with each other. The varying level models for each are pretty comparable in price and performance:

Attack 11 vs Pivot 12
STH2 13 vs Pivot 14 vs Attack 13
STH2 16 vs Pivot 18 vs Attack 16/18

Can also compare WTR version of look, Attack 14 AT, warden etc

For alpine specifically, weights, stack heights, and boot adjustment ranges are as follows (per pair) for the highest DIN Models:

Attack 16: 2200g, 18 2340g. Stack Height: 17mm. Boot adjustment Range: ~ +/- 17mm

STH2 16: 2290g, Stack Height: 24mm, Boot Adjustment Range: ~+/ 14-16mm

Look Pivot 18: 2490g, Stack height 20mm, Boot Adjustment Range: ~+/- 5mm (note decreased swing weight due to considerably shorter drill pattern).

Attack:
Lowest stack height, lightest weight, easy step in, durable, and large boot adjustment range might have the Attacks becoming my new favorite binding. However I dislike the idea of the fixed toe in some falls (vs the Pivot-type toes on the Salomon and Look). I'm curious how people feel these ski in terms of retention and elasticity, as well as on the snow feel. I'm planning on mounting my powder-specific skis with these next season. Some claim lateral toe spring improves toe release consistency to the sides.

Pivot/FKS:
The short mount pattern on the Pivot and heel design help it let the ski flex more naturally (though the STH2 heel does as well). Cons from tiny heel mount pattern could come in the form of pullout strength (not that I've ever seen it). On snow feel of the toe and heel design might be the best, as well as anecdotal smoothest release (holds you in when you need and releases when you need). Con is the weight, although the swing weight might be less due to the heel design. Not the best if you want to share skis due to limited boot adjustment ranges before a remount. Stepping in powder can be a pain as well. I've had half moon cracking issues in the past, may be over-torquing problem.

STH2:
STH2 seems like somewhat of a blend of the two. Pivot-type toe, lots of heel adjustment, lets the ski flex, lighter weight. Also has rubber damping pads, WTR boot compatibility, and fully adjustable toe (wing and afd height) for power transmission. Noticeably higher stack height than the Attacks however, and toe adjustments need to be monitored. I've had a few instances where the toe and/or heel adjustments have backed off somewhat on the hill after a few days leading to pre-release. Big plus for Park over the other two is the ease of swapping brakes (takes 60 seconds)- Attack's are drilled directly into the ski, and FKS are FKN pain to swap and require removing/dissembling the heel.


My overall take is Attack for powder/wider skis, Pivot for big mountain/hard charging, cliff hucking retention very important (also hard snow, frontside), STH2 for Park, but also powder and generally wider skis. I have no time on the Attacks (though have some mounted up. Tab forward pressure adjustment means Attack can share skis w/boots of same mondo size (i.e. 296mm vs 297mm) without changing it, although afd height needs to be adjusted still).

I have a lot of time on the other two bindings. Love the control and retention of the Pivots, but can feel heavy at times, bad for sharing skis, and pain to step in in powder. STH2 is great but more fiddly for me, and have had a few pre-releases. Easy step in for powder, good mix of power/lightweight feel for me. I've liked how the feel on landings and for park laps. Easy to share skis.

All that being said I'll still be on all three bindings next season. Debating which one to throw on my Quixotes though

[buttahflake]

Shop guys love Tyrolia, always test's pure, straight from the box. Throw in the price point and it's an easy choice. Only binding I recommend these days.

[kootenayskier]

I haven't done a recent comparison, but I stick with the fully adjustable toe pieces on Salomons because I got boot play with any other design I tried. Boot toes vary and wear over time, and I like a secure connection. The latest WTR13s seem perfect to me

[N1CK.]

I've used STH2s and currently have some Wardens, now that I've skied the Attack 13 I gotta say I like them alot and would buy them again

[ScrewYou]

Performance:
1. Pivot 18
2. Attack 18/16
3. STH2 16
4. Jester

Durability:
1. Pivot
2. Attack
3. Jester
4. STH2

Ease of use in powder:
1. Attack
2. STH2
3. Pivot
4. Jester

Step In "feel":
1. Jester
2. Attack
3. STH2
4. Pivot

Prices on sale:
1. Attack
2. STH2
3. Pivot
4. Jester

Overall:
1. Attack
2. Pivot
3. STH2
4. Jester

They are all good. I personally wont buy new STH2 16s unless theyre $180 or cheaper. Ive had some minor durability issues, more annoying than problematic, but I avoid paying real $$ for them.. they dont wow me in any category, they just get the job done. Honestly, I like the original STH much better than the STH2. I still use them though, I have a new pair in my closet.

The Jesters are underrated. Everyone hates on marker bindings, I like them better than the new Salomon offerings. They dont lack in performance, I just rate them last because they feel artificial to me. I feel less "in" the ski, more "on" it. I love their step in feel, its so solid when your boot is clear of snow. If your boot is iced up, or powder packed, its an absolute nightmare. Forget about it.. I like the color schemes though, and I buy them if they are $200ish.

Pivots rock. They are my favorite, deep down. They are the heaviest, beefiest, and best performing binding hands down. Not the greatest when your boot has snow on it, but not the worst either. If I had more money, id have a pair of these on all my skis. They are usually the priciest, however you get more for the money than with markers, hence my 3rd place rating in price.

The attacks are the total package. They are super easy to use, and stepping in always gives you great feedback. They perform great, I never pre release and I feel like I'm "in" the ski, like with Pivots. They are hefty and feel durable, it seems like they have more metal in them than a Marker Jester. I find screamin' deals on these sometimes, I think I paid $155 for my 4FRNT Attack 18s new. The only downfall, is that I personally have less experience with these bindings, so its durability rating could weaken, but I dont suspect that from the quality of the binding.

Right now, I'm debating looking cool with matching colored markers.. Or spending a lil extra on purpose built pivots. The real question is what freakin skis am I buying next, with all the deals coming in.

[skimaxpower]

[mr_pretzel]

Thanks for making this thread. I have been interested in the tyrolias for a while. I got to ski a pair of demos and they skied great.

Pivots for sure have the best on snow feel, but I don't trust them anymore than the sth2, maybe even less sometimes as setting the forward pressure is too much of an art for my liking. Toe adjustments on sth2s do need to be monitored throughout season as soles get worn/screws back out a bit.

[CaliBrit]

I would bet damn good money you wouldn't be able to tell the the difference in a blind test. Between any of them.

[roQer]

Pivots and Salomons STH have vertical release at the toe. Attacks and Jesters (and the likes) do not have it. I'm not sure how this translates to the overall safety but I rather trust in bindings which provide this feature.

[Ted Striker]

I would bet damn good money you wouldn't be able to tell the the difference in a blind test. Between any of them.

Me too.

Pivots ... have vertical release at the toe.

You know you just said Betelgeuse, right?

[roQer]

You know you just said Betelgeuse, right?

???

[abraham]

???

Not the star.

[ALFONSO618]

Only because I'm a huge advocate for the Attack series I felt compelled to respond to this post.

I originally purchased the 13s and loved them for their wide platform and easy click in no matter what the condition (powder, park, groomers)

I got such a good deal on some Attack 16s that I couldnt pass them up but they're significantly heavier than the 13s and I dont "REALLY" need the extra din

I would recommend the Attack 13s for the weight savings unless you NEED the 16 din

Perhaps I just regurgitated what you said above but if you're going with powder skis definitely go Attacks

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

I like the Tyrolias functionality best, but no toe height adjustment = no deal.

[Muggydude]

? You mean you don't like the sliding ramp adjustable afd? (Vs STH2 has true toe height adjustment)? Pivots don't have any toe height adjustment besides shim for changing ramp angle.

Or are you just after AT sole acceptance? If so see post below

[bsavery]

I like the Tyrolias functionality best, but no toe height adjustment = no deal.

They do make one.


https://www.backcountry.com/tyrolia-...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

[auvgeek]

Pivots ... have vertical release at the toe.

P14, yes. P18, no.

Just in case the other responses weren't clear.

[Muggydude]

Doesn't the 18 more or less have somewhat of a upward-diagonal release? The toe can pivot forward, though not necessarily enough for true vertical release

[Ted Striker]

???

FKS do/don't have upward release has been debated ad nauseam. The mere mention in a thread tends to generate a shit storm. I'm a little surprised it hasn't in this thread. Not quite summer yet, I suppose.

auvgeek is correct. The 14 and lower DIN toes are based on the Geze design. If you back-off the spring on those toes, you’ll see that the wings can pivot upward, so those toes do have vertical release.

The 15 and 18 DIN toes have a one piece housing on a post. If you back the spring off, they will tilt forward, but not enough for the boot to clear the housing straight up. Some amount of twisting force is required for the boot to actually release. So, no purely vertical release on those.

A picture is worth 1000 words

[buttahflake]

I like the Tyrolias functionality best, but no toe height adjustment = no deal.

Huh? The attack series have a toe-height adjustment. Posi#3, it's most excellent.

[bsavery]

Huh? The attack series have a toe-height adjustment. Posi#3, it's most excellent.

Do the standard (13 DIN bindings) have this as well or just the 14? If I remember looking at them in the shop the 13's might have a bit, but looks like the 14 AT has more range.

[1000-oaks]

Pivots and Salomons STH have vertical release at the toe.

No. Soli toe wings can angle up a bit during horizontal release to ease out the boot, but it's definitely not upward release.

[buttahflake]

Do the standard (13 DIN bindings) have this as well or just the 14? If I remember looking at them in the shop the 13's might have a bit, but looks like the 14 AT has more range.

The Attack 13 has a ton of toe height adjustability

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks for going full-geek on this, Muggydude.

I've been thinking long and hard about what to mount on my new Quixotes as well, and one consideration for me is to allow for the possibility (probability) of going with the CAST system. I understand that the CAST uses the identical 8 holes per ski as the standard Pivot, so I'm either going to start with Look or go directly to CAST.

I haven't been on a Look since the mid-80's, but it's more of a random thing than by intent - starting with my taking an 8 or 10 year break over to the dark side (tele), then locking my heels back own with frame (AT) & then tech bindings, and only the past three years returning to a few rigs with full on alpine bindings.

Cheers,
Thom

[tipdive]

Another vote for the AAAttacks. The 14AT is da shit.

Sources say there is a model facelift coming next season. Meanwhile you can get 2017my Tyrolias in Yrup at crazy prices. Ellis Brigham in the UK had it at ~$70 ex VAT last time I checked.