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  1. #26
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    Slightly on and slightly off topic, (more I just don't want to start a new thread when you guys seem to have a better clue then me.

    I manned up and converted to tubeless on Monday. I pulled the tubes out, changed the stems and made them tight, used gorilla tape to tape the rim, added 3-4oz of Stans, used a compressor to seat the rims, bounces the tires around to try to help the bead seat, and I was tubeless. I road around the block, everything was great. Yesterday (Tuesday) afternoon I got to the trail head, I check my ties to see that they held air, they were firm, about how they felt with tubes in them. 100 ft into my ride, my back tire was flat. Lucky enough I had my pump in the car, I get the tire reseated in the rim, pumped it to 28 psi, and tried riding again. I double checked the fronts pressure with the pump, it was still at 25 psi, where I left it the night before. After 16 miles both ties felt firm, the pump showed the front and back at 25 psi, not 25 and 28 psi. I figured I burped the tire or something, and didn't think twice about it. Well I get my bike out today and the back tire was almost flat again. This time it was down to 5 psi.

    Both tires are the sticky MAXXIS Minion DHR II 3c Maxterra tubeless ready. The front tire has 3 rides in it, the back now has one ride on it. Neither rim has any noticeable dents in it and are true.

    Any suggestions? I loved how the tires road tubeless, but if keeping air in them is going to be a pain. I'm going to get cranky fast and go back to tubes.

  2. #27
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    I would investigate the seal at the valve stem first, and go from there. Is there any weeping of sealant anywhere?
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I would investigate the seal at the valve stem first, and go from there. Is there any weeping of sealant anywhere?
    The valve stem is tight, so tight that I needed to get a channel locks to looses it up to inspect. I did notice some weeping of sealant once I inflated the tire again, maybe the bead did not seat as I thought it had?

    With a brand new climbing rope, I was always taught to hang it and let it find its natural form before using it. Does a similar idea apply to new tires and unpackaging the tire and tossing it right on the rim cause issues?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skibrd View Post
    The valve stem is tight, so tight that I needed to get a channel locks to looses it up to inspect. I did notice some weeping of sealant once I inflated the tire again, maybe the bead did not seat as I thought it had?

    With a brand new climbing rope, I was always taught to hang it and let it find its natural form before using it. Does a similar idea apply to new tires and unpackaging the tire and tossing it right on the rim cause issues?
    Some people like to put the tire on the rim with an inner tube first so that it gets the proper shape and leave it that way overnight. I assume you checked the rims for damage which can cause issues, too. I think it's the valve as mentioned above, though. Your experience is way different than mine, fwiw. Tubeless has been significantly easier than tubes for me for the last 4 years...

  5. #30
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    Devil's advocate, but the way you wrote out your description says you have the valves under the tape? I'm guessing that is not the case.

    You shouldn't need to cinch down the valve stems so tightly that you need channel locks to unthread them.

    When you poked a hole for the the valves through the tape, how did you do it?

    It seems trivial, but going from the rim surface down towards the hub is the way to go, won't fold the tape over and create a bad seal there.

  6. #31
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    For me it normally takes a ride or two for the sealant to work it's way into all the nooks and crannies of a new tape/stem/tire/sealant job...

    Two most common leaks I see are through the valve stem or through a nipple hole when the tape gets old/ripped/folded. Neither of those leaks can be fixed with more sealant, just take the tire off and fiddle with the stem or retape....

    Other than that, I have noticed my tubeless setups normally leak more air over time than comparable tubes. I currently have tubeless setup on the front and a tube on the rear of my bike and if the bike sits a week I usually have to put about 5psi in the rear and 10psi in the front.....
    Best Skier on the Mountain
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by skibrd View Post
    Slightly on and slightly off topic, (more I just don't want to start a new thread when you guys seem to have a better clue then me.
    Any suggestions?
    Before you rode on them did you take time to circulate the sealant around the tire, making sure that the bead area has a chance to absorb some of the sealant on both sides of the rim? Basically turning the wheel on it's side and rotating so the sealant will flow into that area?

    Also, you will want to monitor tire pressure a little more closely than you may have been used to with inner tubes.

  8. #33
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    How tight is the tire fit on the back rim? IME if it holds air but then suddenly goes flat (without a burp) the tire is too loose, you need another layer of tape. Also check the tape and make sure there's no holes (aside from the valve hole) and that it fully covers the floor of the rim. Sometimes the tape gets ripped or pushed sideways when mounting the tire.

    On the original question, I take the wheel off and shake it. If it rattles, I'll clean out the old gunk and add new sealant. If there's no noise, just add sealant. If it swishes, leave it alone. Usually wind up cleaning out the old stuff in the spring when I start riding again after ski season.

  9. #34
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    Questions:
    1. Are they new tires, or the same rubber you were running with tubes? Sometimes tired old tires resist a good bond.
    2. What rims are you running? You can get older non-TR rims to set up, but it usually takes more persistence. And from my experience with 6 Spank rims, none of them will hold air for more than a couple days until there's enough old stans inside to basically glue them in place.

    3. Did you do a really thorough Stan's dance? There's different ways to do it, but basically you need it to splash it around so that it gets to the bead and all over the sidewall. Just riding on it or spinning it only forces the sealant to the outer most surface right under the tread.
    If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it tubeless, I will. I got spare time.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by D(C) View Post
    This.

    That said, this is what I pulled out of a tire that was on a bike for 2.5 years, with sealant topped up every so often;

    How in the hell did you ride with a pen in your tire????

    My wife just bought a bike with tubeless tires. FML, I don't want another time-suck in my life figuring shit out.....

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    My wife just bought a bike with tubeless tires. FML, I don't want another time-suck in my life figuring shit out...
    If it's your job to set them up (as they usually come from the factory with tubes) there are a few things that will make it easier. Buy the proper rim tape, don't mess around with duct tape. Buy quality valves with removable cores. Make sure the tires are TL ready (most that come from the factory are generic OEM tires that are not TL Ready). Buy Stans sealant. Watch the videos and go for it. I like to remove the valve cores the first time I try to get the tires to set. Make sure its a high volume pump (MTB) and not a high pressure pump (road). These pumps along with the cores removed allows more air to enter the tire quicker. Once you get the tire bead to seat, pull the pump let it deflate and then put the core back in and re inflate t desired pressure.
    I feel all the crap of "trying to figure shit out" is messing around with non tubeless specific rims or non TL ready tires or duct tape. Buy the right stuff and there is no shit to figure out, other than trying to explain to your wife what to do when she gets a flat with her tubeless set up..... but that's a whole different thread.

  12. #37
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    Aug 2014
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    New tubeless sealant at beginning of season?

    I didn't over lap the rim tape where the valve stem is...

    Time to go clean up a mess and start over. Thanks for the help everyone.

    Just for a note for those who asked, the rims are Jalco 28 with MAXXIS Minion DHF tires. The tires are new, as in bought in the past two weeks. I'm not totally sure the rims are technically tubeless computable, but the front tire is holding just fine, with the rim tape applied incorrectly...

    The high volume pump is awesome. Two pumps and the bead is set on the rim. I tried with a high pressure pump and I couldn't get it to work.

  13. #38
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    Figuring it out is too easy nowadays. Only issues you'll run into are if you are trying to set up older tires/rims/etc. I've done a brand new Maxxis onto a Stans flow mk3 with a handpump.

    For the visually impaired, friend of mine has video help:

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs View Post
    Buy the right stuff and there is no shit to figure out, other than trying to explain to your wife what to do when she gets a flat with her tubeless set up..... but that's a whole different thread.
    Thanks. And I really have no idea what to tell the wife when she gets a flat, isn't it "put in a tube instead and never buy shit you can't figure out for yourself?"


    Probably not, but that sounds right.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    Thanks. And I really have no idea what to tell the wife when she gets a flat, isn't it "put in a tube instead and never buy shit you can't figure out for yourself?"


    Probably not, but that sounds right.
    Everyone I know just carries a tube and throws that in if they get a flat, which is unlikely. Then switches it back to tubeless once back home.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    Thanks. And I really have no idea what to tell the wife when she gets a flat, isn't it "put in a tube instead and never buy shit you can't figure out for yourself?"


    Probably not, but that sounds right.
    "Put a tube in."

    Was that so hard? If she was getting by fine with her previous tubed setup, i.e. not pinch-flatting regularly, just put in tubes.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    Thanks. And I really have no idea what to tell the wife when she gets a flat, isn't it "put in a tube instead and never buy shit you can't figure out for yourself?"


    Probably not, but that sounds right.
    Yea, the question with my wife was always "do you even know how to change a flat?". After years of riding with me, we always rode together and she was content to stand there while I fixed all the tires. Now that she's riding solo more often, she needed to learn and was not enjoying it, but eventually persisted.
    At the end of the day, putting a tube in a tubeless tire is about the same as putting a tube in a tubed tire. On one, you have to pull out the old tube. On the other, you need to remove the tubeless valve. Can't do one, can't do the other.
    If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it tubeless, I will. I got spare time.

  18. #43
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    I always run a small amount of sealant around the tire bead. 1. It helps the tire seat a little easier. 2. I think it adds seals a little easier and quicker. I mix mold builder in with the home depot version of slime with a little water. I keep it thick enough you would not be able to hear it sloshing around by shaking the tire. After a couple rides it coats the full tire pretty well.

    Someone on here posted about using tire plugs. That might be an easier fix then installing a tube for most repairs. I plan on adding a small plug repair kit to my kit.

  19. #44
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    If you make sure there's still some liquid sealant in the tire (see the earlier question about when to replace sealant), then a lot of flats can be fixed (at least well enough to get home) by finding the hole, angling the wheel so the sealant drains into it, and waiting a few seconds for the leak to stop. Then top off with the pump and ride on. I even managed to limp home once that way after splitting a sidewall. If that doesn't work, pop in a tube.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    "Put a tube in."

    Was that so hard?
    Guess not, but I didn't know for sure if that was the answer though. And teledad seems to have another alternate, which I would never have thought of.

    Jm2e, my wife is gonna ride without me all summer, with us having two young kids, so she is on her own. At least I can give her advice now.

    She may go to tubes eventually, I don't think I have the patience to deal with ever dealing with tubeless and I have zero free time in my life. (I don't even understand the point unless you are in cactus country. Low PSi for cornering? Sure, I'd love to ruin my rims in rock gardens and fold over my tires in corners!) That said, until I seat a tubeless tire myself and see how it works, I may be over reacting. Still have zero time for this though.

  21. #46
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    When it works, the tubeless set up is all that and more. I'm an early adopter, (2000?), and the tires stay as hard as when I had tubes. Maybe better. 4 mountain bikes, 2 road bikes, all tubeless, no problems. Well putting that Maxxis whatever road tire on was a bitch, but...
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    I don't even understand the point unless you are in cactus country.
    For me, pinch flats above all. I have to run stupid high pressure not to pinch regularly in rocky terrain with tubes. Though, being able to ride through goatheads with impunity is nice too. Seriously, if she does not have a history of flatting regularly just throw tubes in both tires right now. I don't bother with tubeless on altachic's bike for this very reason.

  23. #48
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    I didn't put them in Mrs. Plug's tires until a few seasons ago. I have it pretty dialed, so even if she doesn't ride that bike in months, I just pump it up and off she goes. Lighter rotational mass, better feeling sidewalls, and less flats.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    Jm2e, my wife is gonna ride without me all summer, with us having two young kids, so she is on her own. At least I can give her advice now.
    Obviously since you have zero time for this, it's not really worth debating. The first couple times you do it alone in your garage can be frustrating and time consuming.
    Once you lock in though, it's as great as going with a 1x drivetrain. Not just thorns. Simply stated, you'll have far fewer flats. And it's lighter. And the tires feel better. Better enough that when you do flat and stick a tube inside, you'll immediately hate the way the bike feels.

    Word of advise: If your wife is running tubeless, be generous with the sealant and replenish frequently. Something we don't do so much for ourselves.
    If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it tubeless, I will. I got spare time.

  25. #50
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    You've convinced me, I just need a husband to do my tires now!

    Thanks everyone.

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