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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by japanada View Post
    The ID liner in the carbons feels very similar to my pro tours. Wish I had kept the carbons around. The air liner in the AX120 if a very different beast. I picked up a pair and could feel the difference in the roomier fit right away. My plan was to put a new set of pro tours in them to take up some room and snug the boot up. I was able to return the AX120s and went with the orange lupo 130C. They have a similar air liner as the 120s, but with 100% IF AIR PLUS. I'm hoping it will be a little bit more dense than the blue 120s. We will see.
    Hey I'm curious what your thoughts are switching to the 130. I put 2 days in on the AX 120s and I'm honestly not sure they're for me. Coming from KRs, I'm finding them to be too roomy in the toe box. Something about the flex seems a little inconsistent too. I thought they were fine in untracked or groomers. But when the snow was tracked or bumpy, just didn't provide a snug feel to me. At one point I had the middle buckle maxed out, which wound up making my foot cramp/go numb by the end of the run. Yes, fit is off.

    I realize these are intended primarily for backcountry. I used them as a resort boot for last 2 days, as we got 20 inches of new snow in CO. Thought these could suffice as a 1 quiver boot for short term, but kind of doubting that at this point.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lev View Post
    Hey I'm curious what your thoughts are switching to the 130. I put 2 days in on the AX 120s and I'm honestly not sure they're for me. Coming from KRs, I'm finding them to be too roomy in the toe box. Something about the flex seems a little inconsistent too. I thought they were fine in untracked or groomers. But when the snow was tracked or bumpy, just didn't provide a snug feel to me. At one point I had the middle buckle maxed out, which wound up making my foot cramp/go numb by the end of the run. Yes, fit is off.

    I realize these are intended primarily for backcountry. I used them as a resort boot for last 2 days, as we got 20 inches of new snow in CO. Thought these could suffice as a 1 quiver boot for short term, but kind of doubting that at this point.
    130s fit so much closer to the og kryptons. They are a little heavier than the ax120s but not by much. I love the increased snugness compared to the ax120s.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using TGR Forums mobile app

  3. #78
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    I have about 6-8 sled days on my boots, and the bottoms are getting chewed to shit. Really soft material (IRFRAN?).

    The spot on the arch is actually worse than it looks in the picture, kind of worried it'll wear through eventually!

    Anyone else notice this? Anything I can do to stop/slow it down, has anyone glued some material in there etc?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
    ^this is what makes this place great.

    Props / Respect
    just seeing this now. brilliant. going to have to try. fantastic that you can easily go back as well!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Lee, The 120 looks like a great option being lighter than 130 (without tongue 1500 grams vs 1640 grams). Aside from the slightly wider 100mm last and the "M" tongue, the 120 is stated to have an IRFRAN/FIBER build vs the 130 having a GRILAMID/FIBER build. Any thoughts on the big differences there? Is that going to effect the flex? Or is the IRFRAN just lighter?

    Thinking about getting the 120s for the reduced weight, then upgrading to the "B" tongues from the 130s to achieve a slightly stiffer flex. 120 might be fine, but I'm 6ft 185lbs and prefer a 130 flex.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    I can't see what that won't work. In fact I think that seems to be a really good idea.

    As for this "Is that going to effect the flex? Or is the IRFRAN just lighter?" IRFRAN, as well as having a goofy name, is softer, and more able to hold a punch. At least that's what a spec sheet I looked at said
    Can you guys help with a little clarification please? I have the ax 120 and would like a stiffer tongue. However, it looks like the arrow points to the P and would indicate the stiffest tongue? Jdadour do you have confirmation that the B tongues are in fact stiffer?

    Thanks guys I've been running around the internet trying to sort this out.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
    Can you guys help with a little clarification please? I have the ax 120 and would like a stiffer tongue. However, it looks like the arrow points to the P and would indicate the stiffest tongue? Jdadour do you have confirmation that the B tongues are in fact stiffer?

    Thanks guys I've been running around the internet trying to sort this out.
    The "P" tongues on the 120ax are almost the same as the "B" tongues. Any softer flex is mostly because of the softer liner, or slightly because of the shell which is marginally thinner. I upgraded the liners to Pro Tours and it made the flex much more solid, probably the same as a 130.
    Last edited by jdadour; 09-11-2018 at 10:31 AM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    The "M" tongues on the 120ax are the same as the "B" tongues. Any softer flex is mostly because of the softer liner, or slightly because of the shell which is marginally thinner. I upgraded the liners to Pro Tours and it made the flex much more solid, probably the same as a 130.
    Thanks for the reply. Are you sure the M tongues are the stiffest? Looks like my tongues are stamped P.

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    This chart from LeeLau's review shows different?


  8. #83
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    Also, looks like LeeLau's tongues were stamped C...

    At the end of the day I can fold this boot forward way too easy. My first 3 piece boot so surely I'm not used to the flex style, but I don't really like it and am looking to be able to drive shins/tips without the fold over to rebound upright phenomenon.

    I already have my power wraps, a small spoiler, and WC booster straps...

    Thanks for any help.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Are you sure the M tongues are the stiffest? Looks like my tongues are stamped P.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This chart from LeeLau's review shows different?

    Yeah my mistake, you are right on the tongues. Just reference Lee's info, it's legit.

    Sent from my Pixel using TGR Forums mobile app
    Unofficial Fact: Skiing was 69% more rad in the 1980's.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
    Also, looks like LeeLau's tongues were stamped C...

    At the end of the day I can fold this boot forward way too easy. My first 3 piece boot so surely I'm not used to the flex style, but I don't really like it and am looking to be able to drive shins/tips without the fold over to rebound upright phenomenon.

    I already have my power wraps, a small spoiler, and WC booster straps...

    Thanks for any help.

    And sorry, I meant to say "P" tongues above, edited my original post. I had the B tongues of the carbons on the 120s, and compared them to the P tongues. To me the flex felt very similar, if not the same stiffness. Even when looking at the tongues on their own the felt the same, and also weigh the same, so same amount of plastic. However, in Lee's info references a "more gentle rebound", so not sure how much of a difference that is.

    Again, I think the main difference is going to be the liners, and shell which is made from Irfran as a opposed to Grilimid, and is slightly thinner plastic (lighter by 178 grams). Seems like the heavier clog of the Factory or 130 would be less susceptible to folding.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    And sorry, I meant to say "P" tongues above, edited my original post. I had the B tongues of the carbons on the 120s, and compared them to the P tongues. To me the flex felt very similar, if not the same stiffness. Even when looking at the tongues on their own the felt the same, and also weigh the same, so same amount of plastic. However, in Lee's info references a "more gentle rebound", so not sure how much of a difference that is.

    Again, I think the main difference is going to be the liners, and shell which is made from Irfran as a opposed to Grilimid, and is slightly thinner plastic (lighter by 178 grams). Seems like the heavier clog of the Factory or 130 would be less susceptible to folding.
    Good info thanks. Unfortunately that means I might be SOL for making these less susceptible to folding, as I already have the P tongues (stock), Intuition power wraps, and WC booster straps...

    And I think you're right RE the body of the shell material. When I flex them forward, the main body of the foot area almost "bellows", or compresses.

    Don't really see these as being close to a 120 flex though. My Titans with power wraps felt stiffer. Strange.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
    Good info thanks. Unfortunately that means I might be SOL for making these less susceptible to folding, as I already have the P tongues (stock), Intuition power wraps, and WC booster straps...

    And I think you're right RE the body of the shell material. When I flex them forward, the main body of the foot area almost "bellows", or compresses.

    Don't really see these as being close to a 120 flex though. My Titans with power wraps felt stiffer. Strange.
    What is your shell size and what size/volume Power Wrap are you using? I have a Pro Tour Medium Volume 28 in my 27.5 shells. I noticed that these liners take up a good amount of volume, leading to a snugger fit, which may provide a slightly stiffer flex. Just a thought

  13. #88
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    Intuition Power Wrap, medium volume, size 28 in 27.5 shell. They have a fair few inbounds and touring days on them, I used them in my previous Titans. Don't think they're "shot", but definitely mid life.

    Been considering going up to power wrap plus (more volume + stiffer), but unsure whether I should invest in these boots or try and sell and get something else... Gawd that would suck though ($$$).

    Appreciate the help.

  14. #89
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    Also, what height/weight/shoe size are you?

    Me: 6'/170/10US

    Skiing Moment Bibby Pro 190 inbounds, 4frnt Hoji touring. Always pressing shins, prefer more forward lean, heavy on edge/carve style.

    Wet heavy coastal snowpack, which is I think partly exacerbating the rocking horse issue. Stiff boots and stiff(ish) skis can smash that stuff better imo.

    Sigh, maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree with these boots...

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
    Intuition Power Wrap, medium volume, size 28 in 27.5 shell. They have a fair few inbounds and touring days on them, I used them in my previous Titans. Don't think they're "shot", but definitely mid life.

    Been considering going up to power wrap plus (more volume + stiffer), but unsure whether I should invest in these boots or try and sell and get something else... Gawd that would suck though ($$$).

    Appreciate the help.
    I had the standard Power Wrap in my older Lupo’s, same setup w/ 28 in a 27.5 shell. I never felt like they gelled tho, couldn’t quite get the ankle hold I wanted without more modification (j-bars, etc). When I got my new Lupo AX115’s (slightly different than your 120’s, but same toebox) I opted for the Full Tilt Powerwrap instead of the default Intuition one. Big difference in comfort, ankle hold and toe box fit. I ski these as inbounds “comfort charger” boots tho, so cannot speak to touring performance with my setup. Ymmv...

    6’, 185, 10-10.5 US

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
    Also, what height/weight/shoe size are you?

    Me: 6'/170/10US

    Skiing Moment Bibby Pro 190 inbounds, 4frnt Hoji touring. Always pressing shins, prefer more forward lean, heavy on edge/carve style.

    Wet heavy coastal snowpack, which is I think partly exacerbating the rocking horse issue. Stiff boots and stiff(ish) skis can smash that stuff better imo.

    Sigh, maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree with these boots...
    Im also 6' 170, ski the Bibby 190s, 27.5, ski the same way and in west coast snow! Only difference is I like the more upright lean. I only use my 120s for touring, as I have a pair of Lupo Ti, the bright green ones from a couple years back that are full PU plastic and a legit inbounds boot. I would not expect the 120s to perform as well in bounds, so not surprised by your experience. I think the plastic makes a big difference.

    But the 120s weight savings over the 130/Factory is almost 200 grams, so makes it a more legit touring boot.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSP1497 View Post
    I had the standard Power Wrap in my older Lupo’s, same setup w/ 28 in a 27.5 shell. I never felt like they gelled tho, couldn’t quite get the ankle hold I wanted without more modification (j-bars, etc). When I got my new Lupo AX115’s (slightly different than your 120’s, but same toebox) I opted for the Full Tilt Powerwrap instead of the default Intuition one. Big difference in comfort, ankle hold and toe box fit. I ski these as inbounds “comfort charger” boots tho, so cannot speak to touring performance with my setup. Ymmv...

    6’, 185, 10-10.5 US
    Good info, thanks.

    I'll look into the Full Tilt liners.

    As an aside, at 185 you don't ever fold your ax115's over too easily?

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Im also 6' 170, ski the Bibby 190s, 27.5, ski the same way and in west coast snow! Only difference is I like the more upright lean. I only use my 120s for touring, as I have a pair of Lupo Ti, the bright green ones from a couple years back that are full PU plastic and a legit inbounds boot. I would not expect the 120s to perform as well in bounds, so not surprised by your experience. I think the plastic makes a big difference.

    But the 120s weight savings over the 130/Factory is almost 200 grams, so makes it a more legit touring boot.
    Haha must be cousins. Hope you don't look like me too though

    What ski do you tour on? Ever skied the Bibby with the 120's?

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
    Haha must be cousins. Hope you don't look like me too though

    What ski do you tour on? Ever skied the Bibby with the 120's?
    Ha maybe! I tour on the Black Crows Navis Freebird 185. Super solid ski! Great shape and flex. Havent skied the Bibbys with the 120s yet, but did get a pair of Bibby Tours I'm mounting with shifts for pow touring this season. I'm sure the 120s wont be as good as my inbounds Lupos, but they will still be pretty good. Touring gear is always about compromises

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Ha maybe! I tour on the Black Crows Navis Freebird 185. Super solid ski! Great shape and flex. Havent skied the Bibbys with the 120s yet, but did get a pair of Bibby Tours I'm mounting with shifts for pow touring this season. I'm sure the 120s wont be as good as my inbounds Lupos, but they will still be pretty good. Touring gear is always about compromises
    Keeps getting weirder, I just ordered some Moment Wildcat Tours (formerly Bibby Tours)! Should I be worried/locking my doors???

    Will be selling my Hojis, as that was another failed experiment. Full rocker doesn't suit my style, perhaps also contributing to the rocking horse effect.

    Be interesting to compare notes re Bibby Tours and AX120 boots with similar size/snow/style.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
    Good info, thanks.

    I'll look into the Full Tilt liners.

    As an aside, at 185 you don't ever fold your ax115's over too easily?
    Between the Power Wraps and the Expert Booster strap, iíd say they flex more like 120-125... but anyway, no, iíve not had any issues folding them over. I donít rely solely on boot flex/stiffness for support thru a turn, tho it is an easy crutch for some folks. Iím not sure iíd want these boots for hitting gates on an icy race course, but for everything I encounter inbounds on Mt Hood theyíre perfect.

    i spent 5-years in painful, stiff 4-buckle boots while Ski Patrolling and decided I didnít want or need that anymore. Patrolling improved my skiing form tremendously, which is a big part of it for me. When I first tried a cabrio boot many years ago, when I was first starting to apprentice for Patrol, they felt WAY too soft for me, compared to the Rossi race boots I was coming from and it scared me. So I went with some Head Edge series boots for Patrolling and paid the price in painful feet and that ďalmost as good as sexĒ feeling when taking them off. I donít deal with that anymore and can ski just as hard.

    At at any rate, I find the AX115ís to be great for me and my style of skiing and terrain I choose to ski.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSP1497 View Post
    When I first tried a cabrio boot many years ago, when I was first starting to apprentice for Patrol, they felt WAY too soft for me, compared to the Rossi race boots I was coming from and it scared me.
    This ^^^ is exactly how I feel right now with my lupos. Good to know it's not just me, and that you were able to make a shift and do well (better?) with the cabrio boot. Gives me hope, so cheers for taking the time.

  23. #98
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    This thing is worth every penny for keeping in shape during the off-season (well, year round at our house). It will help to reinforce a form that relies less on boot stiffness and more on muscle memory to hold the proper position throughout a turn.


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  24. #99
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    Does anyone know if I can get a less stiff tongue for my Lupo carbon TI from the first season? I want to get either a 110 or a 115 for when I tour. Usually skiing pow so I haven't found a need for the 130 flex. If it makes a difference I am a 28.5

    Don't care about color I would even ski a woman's color

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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCJC View Post
    Keeps getting weirder, I just ordered some Moment Wildcat Tours (formerly Bibby Tours)! Should I be worried/locking my doors???

    Will be selling my Hojis, as that was another failed experiment. Full rocker doesn't suit my style, perhaps also contributing to the rocking horse effect.

    Be interesting to compare notes re Bibby Tours and AX120 boots with similar size/snow/style.
    Have you skied the 120s on any other skis other than the Hoji? What length Hoji are they? I bet the full rocker is whats contributing to the imbalance. It seems like the sweet spot on those could be pretty small, and you would have to ski them pretty centered. Also wondering that if they are the 187s, they might be too short. I am going away from my Belafonte 186 Triple Cambers because i felt something similar due to the fact that they are a touch too short and lack the longer effective edge and stiffness of the OG Belafontes.

    FWIW, one day I skied some pretty aggressive top to bottom laps at mammoth with my 120s, Navis Freebirds, and Tectons, and they felt REAL solid.

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