What is a fatter QLab, Bibby Pro w/ less tail rocker, or Atomic Atlas w/ tail rocker?

[whyturn]

^^^last seasons 189 which is same as this seasons

[comish]

Lhasa Fat. Or the more readily available, Lhasa pow 112.

Haven't ridden those, but have some Lhasa Pow's. They aren't in even the remotely the same league as any of the other 4 skis I have and have mentioned in terms of dampness. Liked the shape, but not the construction. I have them for sale and will sell for very little in gear swap as I know there is definitely still love for that ski. Keep in mind I'm generally a lover of things super damp that typically have metal in them. For this slot in the quiver I'm not looking for metal, but the Moments are still remarkably damp and smooth given then don't have metal. So don't think a Lhasa is the answer to my dreams.

I'm only 5'9" and 160 so not really looking to go longer than my 186cm Gov's...

[FlimFlamvanHam]

based on your post we are of very similar size and taste.

I'm a huge fan of the Bibby (had both 190's and later the 184's), namely because it was so damp (without metal) and excellent in PNW crud. All of my narrower skis have metal. I honestly did not think it was a great pow ski for it's width. I just unloaded my 184's here only because they were not getting enough use. I've grown out of love with ~115ish skis because they suck in anything not really soft and I think a couple of modern ~105ish skis can do same and better in similar conditions without having the extra width underfoot.

So I think Bettleguese (not checking spelling) recommended the new '19 ON3P Wren 114. I think he's onto something. In a 184 it will straight pull just over 184 so it's like a moment 186. I think that is about as close to exactly what you describe you want relative to anything else on the market. I'm on this years 108's and dig them. Lots of tip rocker and splay (similar depth to Bibby and slightly more splay). Bibby has slightly stiffer shovel but the new '19 Wrens should be about same as Bibby. And although the Wren has decent tail rocker it is not as deep or pronounced as the Bibby. And yes, I figure the 114 will have very similar profile to the 108 so pretty easy to suggest it.

[comish]

based on your post we are of very similar size and taste.

I'm a huge fan of the Bibby (had both 190's and later the 184's), namely because it was so damp (without metal) and excellent in PNW crud. All of my narrower skis have metal. I honestly did not think it was a great pow ski for it's width. I just unloaded my 184's here only because they were not getting enough use. I've grown out of love with ~115ish skis because they suck in anything not really soft and I think a couple of modern ~105ish skis can do same and better in similar conditions without having the extra width underfoot.

So I think Bettleguese (not checking spelling) recommended the new '19 ON3P Wren 114. I think he's onto something. In a 184 it will straight pull just over 184 so it's like a moment 186. I think that is about as close to exactly what you describe you want relative to anything else on the market. I'm on this years 108's and dig them. Lots of tip rocker and splay (similar depth to Bibby and slightly more splay). Bibby has slightly stiffer shovel but the new '19 Wrens should be about same as Bibby. And although the Wren has decent tail rocker it is not as deep or pronounced as the Bibby. And yes, I figure the 114 will have very similar profile to the 108 so pretty easy to suggest it.

I like your thinking. I also agree the Bibby is a great ski, but likely not my perfect pow ski. I have also been wondering about narrowing my pow ski a bit as well, as long as it has a bunch of tip rocker.

My only other issue is I'm a frugal bastard so prefer last years model to the newest of new and ON3P don't tend to be <$400 which is my preferred price point, but solid suggestion.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

I like your thinking. I also agree the Bibby is a great ski, but likely not my perfect pow ski. I have also been wondering about narrowing my pow ski a bit as well, as long as it has a bunch of tip rocker.

My only other issue is I'm a frugal bastard so prefer last years model to the newest of new and ON3P don't tend to be <$400 which is my preferred price point, but solid suggestion.

And we remain on same page...

I am tight too and demand the utmost bang for my hard earned dollar. But thankfully the masses cannot handle Head Monsters so those occupy my narrower board slots. A Monster 98 is cheaper than a QST99! The ski world works in my favor.

The one caveat is the 10X ski. Because no big manufacturer is willing to put out a heavy, middish flex ski that has a nice big tip rocker I had to go ON3P. And what I like about ON3P is the directional offerings. I love Moment, but what they offer always had a tail as high as the tip (no use to me) or too stiff a directional rocket with huge radius and not enough tip rocker...in which case I'll choose heavy metal and 20ish radius every time over that. So when on sale recently I bit the bullet.

Yeah, what you want can't be had on a budget yet.

Or try a Wren 108 if/when you can find one for decent dough. At 160lbs you might be surprised at the powder performace. At 160lbs I could do the new '19, but honestly, I've yet to feel the need for a stiffer forebody anywhere and would still opt for the '18 because that slightly softer tip just means better deep snow performance as far as I'm concerned. And the tail is perfect. I can tell it is much more "present" than the Bibby in terms of turning in any condition, but support wise it feels same. If they did not work it's not like you'd lose money on resale. And in the end you'll still pursue the perfect ski which will never exist.

[Banh Mi]

<$400

You can get some brand new Salomon QST 118s for under $400 right now. I think..

I have heard those are great skis.


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[waxoff]

ala 115mm underfoot, a bit more rocker, tip and tail, than the Qlab, but definitely a bit less tail rocker/twin tip than the Blister Pro. Like damp, smooth skis (think old skool Legend Pro, Head Monster 98, Stormriders). Don't do flippy spiny sh*t so just a turned up tail and some subtle tail rocker to loosen them up from my current pow ski the Atomic Atlas is the goal.

Suggestions?

That was kinda my idea with a Praxis BC +10mm (141-116-131 r26) custom build, MAA core, #4 flex. A wee bit over your stated budget but still a valuable deal during their custom sale, discount codes available. I don't know, maybe you'd fall in between lengths (181 or 191)? Did a getto mock-up rocker profile pic from the site info. Is it something like this you're looking for?

Edited to add; Other cores and veneer top options available to customise characteristics, great support from Keith at Praxis to sort that out.

[Self Jupiter]

Black diamond megawatt. Sorry it took me months to figure out that was the ski my brother usually takes out in place of the Atlas. Similar dimensions, mount point length and stiffness with added tail rocker. -Self Dumbass

[waxoff]

Black diamond megawatt. Sorry it took me months to figure out that was the ski my brother usually takes out in place of the Atlas. Similar dimensions, mount point length and stiffness with added tail rocker. -Self Dumbass

Unless op is on the 182 Atlas (?) which would make the BD MW waist 10 mm wider in comparison.

[Self Jupiter]

Ah, yes indeed. Sorry I had the 192 Atlas, personally, didn’t realize OP had 182.

I think there is or was a BD with basically the same shape as megawatt but 115 under foot. Can probably be had on the rill cheap.

[comish]

Yep, I had the mini Atlas.

Think the Praxis is exactly between sizes. Definitely don't want a 191. The 181 could work, but yeah, quite a few more pennies for something that is untried by me at this point. Rocker pict looks good. That is the max tail rocker I'm looking for. Likely a smidge less. Don't think the Gov has that much, although don't have it here to fondle at the moment.

[margotron]

I've grown out of love with ~115ish skis because they suck in anything not really soft and I think a couple of modern ~105ish skis can do same and better in similar conditions without having the extra width underfoot.

examples? I am slowly growing out of love with my 116 width skis as well.

[Banh Mi]

I am slowly growing out of love with my 116 width skis as well.

Same here. Slowly.. I still have a soft spot for versatile wide skis, but the 106-112mm range is becoming my favorite.


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[SupreChicken]

Same here. Slowly.. I still have a soft spot for versatile wide skis, but the 106-112mm range is becoming my favorite.


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Huh. I am still reluctantly grabbing for anything under the 116 range. If there’s anything soft, I’m ripping my Billy goats off the wall.

[Banh Mi]

Huh. I am still reluctantly grabbing for anything under the 116 range. If there’s anything soft, I’m ripping my Billy goats off the wall.

I am starting to prefer skis around 108-112mm for daily drivers now. I usually put most of my days on 116s, buts that’s changing. The 116mm skis are becoming my “pow” skis, instead of the fattys over 120mm.



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[FlimFlamvanHam]

examples? I am slowly growing out of love with my 116 width skis as well.

the Bibby being the latest but I have good amount of time on the 190 then later, about 20 days on the 184 before unloading them here. i had demoed other skis like the older predecessor to the Annex 118 and the Automatic. It doesn't matter you cannot make 115 underfoot not feel like 115 underfoot. You can give it more sidecut which will get it on edge quicker thus limiting the need to "slide" as much thus limiting ankle torque but I'm splitting hairs here. I know what I like and am pretty sure I'll never own another ski in that width.

I love pow, but is it just not around enough to exploit the benefits of such width (for me) so will take a step down in width for a bit more usability elsewhere.

If this were 7ish years ago, yeah, I get the 115 to 120 underfoot thing, but I think a couple manufacturers have come out with mid 100's boards that are just as good in pow but that much more usable outside of deep.

but this is just me. Some guys swear by a 115 as a DD and I could never do that because such as ski, to me, skis like shit in all but pow or deeeeep (Baker like) crud.

[Banh Mi]

Wren 114s. Somebody buy them and report back.


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[comish]

Wren 114s. Somebody buy them and report back.


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Think you might be right. I bought some used 108's and will report back, but not sure they will be wide enough for the deep / heavier Sierra dumps...

[Banh Mi]

I actually went 190 Bibby Pro (Wildcat), 188 PB&J and 196 Governor this year. Giving the Moments another shot now that I’m a little heavier and more betterer than 5 years ago.

I’m selling 189 Wren 108s and 186 Kartel 116s. I think the Wren 96 or 114 would suit my style better, but cant afford them until 2020 season.


Is there a Moment specific thread? I’m subbed to the Praxis and On3p threads, where is the Moment thread?


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[comish]

After this past weekend of Pow-tastic conditions at Mammoth I can finally report back.

Saturday we had 2'+ of new, fairly heavy Sierra pow. Skied the Governor's mounted -2 for the first couple hours. I had them at -1 and wanted less tip dive in these mega Sierra storms. Conclusion: The tips don't have enough rocker or aren't soft enough to plane in the deep when just skiing the lower mountain of Mammoth. Not enough pitch for that deep of pow, at least with the tips of the Gov. I think the ski rocks at speed, ala when the top open. Really like the shape and sidecut and ski the crud and groomers great. Just needs a bit more float in super deep conditions at lower speeds to be my pow ski. Will either sell or hold it to bring to AK in the spring. Trade for a Billy Goat or Wren 114 anyone?

Swapped to the Bibby 184cm from my buddy. This felt way short and too center mounted for my tastes. I'm a drive the tips kinda skier, and the Bibby wanted to be skied w/ a centered stance, which then it did fine in that deep. Not the right ski for me, but can totally see why others love it. I might like it more if I went -2 or more back, but that just defeats the design it seems.

Got 1 run on the Wren 108's mounted -1 or -1.5 (can't remember) due to reusing all but 2 holes per ski. Only got 1 run as the wind went nuclear and got stuck on the lift for 10mins and then everything out of Main shut down. I really like the rocker and sidecut of this ski! It's too narrow for when we get these crazy dumps, but that tip wanted to surface, the ski was super maneuverable, and skied surprisingly well. If I skied somewhere further East, ala CO. that typically calls 6 to 12" a dump I think this could be my do everything pow ski.

Cue up yesterday which was another 2' on top of the first 2 to 3' and it was DEEEEP. Had an epic day skiing pow w/ 10yr old Mini Comish who held his own all over the the mountain including first tracks on ch22. Skied the Wren 108's and again, really like the shape. Just want them wider for that much snow.

SOOO, will I like the Billy Goat for days like this that much more than a Wren 114? I think I'm netting out somewhere in that area after this weekend. Need a 115mm underfoot ski with at least the Wren 108 tip rocker and really liked it's tail rocker. Just need a bit more float for those mega Sierra storms!