The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

**snoboy** · 03-26-2017, 06:43 PM

I have been following the original CAST threads for a bit now and considering a setup for my new gear next winter. It seemed like it might be an ideal solution for my needs... then a pair of STH2 CAST plates came up on my local buy and sell board and I almost pulled the pin - wait, what's going on, they're not making them anymore, no parts available, hrrmmm

???

Now I have seen the Instagram teaser for their new design, and I am more excited. It seems different enough that we should start a new thread, so here goes, let's see if this gets any traction!

I like what I see in that teaser, my only question is that it appears that there is no positive mechanism to lock the alpine toe into place. No problem while skiing, but what happens if you drop a ski? What keeps the toe piece from falling off? It sounds from their website that there is some sort of lock, perhaps it's just not in that prototype.

Would also love to know if there are plans for bindings other than Look/Rossi?

Features as listed at their website home page as of today:

-The heel piece has integrated climbing bails at 8 and 12.5 degrees with a flat mode.
-A step down, auto-lock brake retainer for tour mode, activated using a single switch.
-Both the tech toe and the alpine pivot toe auto-lock onto four shoulder bolts. The tech toe has a secondary lock mechanism when stepped into with a boot. This secondary lock creates zero play and reduces stress on the primary lock while touring, increasing hardware longevity.
-The tech and alpine toes are released with a low profile slider switch.
-All of the performance and safety of the LOOK Pivot bindings. We offer both an alpine ISO 5355 standard AFD and a WTR AFD that are easily interchanged without tools using a quick clip mechanism.
-Ski crampon clip integrated into the tech toe.

[edit]adding "Pivot Freetour" to make it easier to search[/edit]

**1000-oaks** · 03-26-2017, 06:49 PM

There's a semi-sphere (or possibly a detent ball) stamped into the baseplate that's captured by the little spring-loaded slider in the back-center of the tech toe, which holds the toe in place then there isn't a boot in the binding.

**Tye 1on** · 03-26-2017, 06:59 PM

From the bar rumors I've heard the Look/Rossi will be the only binding.

**snoboy** · 03-26-2017, 07:03 PM

1000-oaks: I see the ball, and I see the slider on the tech toe, I'm not seeing the equivalent on the alpine toe though. I am sure there must be something as it seems like an obvious requirement and is listed in the features, just not apparent in the Instagram video.

Originally Posted by Tye 1on

From the bar rumors I've heard the Look/Rossi will be the only binding.

Not the worst news ever!

**skibrd** · 03-26-2017, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Tye 1on

From the bar rumors I've heard the Look/Rossi will be the only binding.

For now...

Also no plans for a separate plate to remove the heel pieces. I asked and Lars' logic is sound, do you really want to figure out how to carry them in your backpack, on top of the toe pieces, avid gear and touring gear? It's simpler.

**Tye 1on** · 03-27-2017, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by skibrd

For now...

a better answer, thanks.
Get the L/R system fully dialed before adding more options...

**skibrd** · 03-27-2017, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Tye 1on

a better answer, thanks.
Get the L/R system fully dialed before adding more options...

Yep. The new system is also much lighter then the first. For me I think it's going to come down to if I want to carry the weight penalty of CAST verse the possibility of messing my knees up with a pin binding. I have an ultra light set up for long missions, but it scares the shit out of me on the down. My knees hurt, my hips are grumpy, and I am not nearly as confident of a skier. If Lars has gotten the weight down, and with the addition of the light 130 flex boots with tech toes, I'm starting to consider CAST 2.0 as my only touring set up. No more Kingpins, no more Dynafits, one set up to rule them all.

**Island Bay** · 03-28-2017, 02:48 PM

Paging those with insider knowledge: any idea of total cost?

**skibrd** · 03-29-2017, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Island Bay

Paging those with insider knowledge: any idea of total cost?

Pre-sale is going up soon, won't know until then

**jvskinn** · 03-29-2017, 11:52 AM

If this is less prone to icing, meaning less fiddling with it during transitions then this will be awesome.

**HukuTa_KydecHuk** · 04-08-2017, 07:06 AM

pre-order for the new system opened on the website

**retirwntm** · 04-08-2017, 01:00 PM

In!

**Kopi_Red** · 04-08-2017, 09:13 PM

Any idea on the price?

**Judo Chop!** · 04-08-2017, 11:10 PM

Tried but it didn't work. Maybe because I'm using a canadian creditcard??

EDIT: tried a different computer and it worked with the same card. weird.

**j0z77** · 04-09-2017, 01:39 PM

Are these able to use with BF inserts?

**1000-oaks** · 04-09-2017, 10:40 PM

^ Really doubt it.

**snoboy** · 04-10-2017, 12:12 AM

No indication or hint of price in the presale, but plenty more pictures. The "lock" for the alpine toe that I wondered about is there.

Originally Posted by Judo Chop!

Tried but it didn't work. Maybe because I'm using a canadian creditcard??

Worked fine for me. Try again maybe?

Originally Posted by j0z77

Are these able to use with BF inserts?

I kind of doubt it. I am hoping they make the front shoulder bolts and plate available separately though, as it looks like you should be able to mount the heel on BF Inserts and at least get some swappability. Not all the benefits of insert mounts, but at least the one pair of bindings - multiple skis trick.

**adrenalated** · 04-10-2017, 09:09 AM

According to the email I just got, retail price for the new system is $650.

**retirwntm** · 04-10-2017, 09:27 AM

Does that include P18's?

**skibrd** · 04-10-2017, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by mtnwriter

Does that include P18's?

Yes, full set of Pivots and touring toes are included.

**HukuTa_KydecHuk** · 04-10-2017, 05:10 PM

so that makes it ~400 for the set except the p18s

**skibrd** · 04-10-2017, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk

so that makes it ~400 for the set except the p18s

P18s cost $250?

**1000-oaks** · 04-10-2017, 08:35 PM

With this new design, the toe pattern must be drilled very accuratly, and should probably be a stout ski with metal to reduce the potential for the screws working loose. Balsa cores need not apply.

**skibrd** · 04-10-2017, 10:10 PM

The boys ski on Praxis RX and GPO, I may be wrong, but I don't believe there much metal is in either.

And judging by how hard Lars and Silas send it on a daily basis and that they have been on their prototypes for over a year now, I doubt they have seen issues with the toe pins/screws moving.

I use their shop jig to mount my pivots and have not had any issues. I expect installations to have to be no more precise then installing any other pair of Pivots. I will let you know in the fall when I mount my 202cm Ranger 108s with them. It's going to be my new side country/touring ski and I can't think of a better binding set up.

**1000-oaks** · 04-10-2017, 11:55 PM

Binding toes allow a lot more margin for misaligned holes than the new CAST2 system will. Screws can go in crooked and still clamp down just fine, but crooked or mis-positioned pins won't line up with the slots in the toe baseplate so easily.

The second issue is how screws are designed to work. Screws and bolts aren't supposed to use their shear strength, they're intended for a tensile load which clamps one part against another, and the substantial friction between those two clamped surfaces prevents the hardware from experiencing a shear load. That's why the CAST screws are so fat - the loading in this application is 100% shear. The wide shoulder against the ski and the super-thick heads are designed to resist wiggling of the screws, and minimize screw thread movement in the ski.

The CAST2 design is the best that can be done considering the challenges of a pin design like this. My point is the more stout the ski, the less potential there is for the screws rocking and loosening. Given the type of skis the target customer uses, it's unlikely to be an issue for most folks.