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  1. #151
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    13
    I asked them about this a while back. Toe alone won't work with QK because as mentioned QK are M-5 screws and the the CAST toe uses M-6 screws/shoulder bolts (unless something changed).

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    not here, kansas
    Posts
    299
    Just because binding freedom and quiver killer only make m5 inserts does not mean you can’t put inserts in a ski for m6. M6 is available online, in stainless at the same 9.5mm depth as an m5. Ill bet you could even ask John to see if he can have 1000 made in a m6 so you all can have a group buy and fuck the guy who makes them.
    Falling feels like flying........for a little while.

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    733
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbuilds View Post
    Just because binding freedom and quiver killer only make m5 inserts does not mean you can’t put inserts in a ski for m6. M6 is available online, in stainless at the same 9.5mm depth as an m5. Ill bet you could even ask John to see if he can have 1000 made in a m6 so you all can have a group buy and fuck the guy who makes them.
    Can you elaborate on the M6 inserts? Im planning on mounting my CAST into inserts and may have to get these.

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kootenays
    Posts
    1,346
    I'm thinking along the lines of M5 BF inserts for the heel, and a second ski kit from Cast for the toe. Then you just have skis with the shoulder bolts and that thin plate. Not as smooth for packing multiple skis up in a bag, but still pretty nice.

    I will investigate that option further when they get here to see if it looks feasible. First I am going to ski them and make sure they don't blow up good before making too many concessions in my quiver.

    Going on second hand info here - if the Cast guys are heli coiling them, then that suggests to me that the toe bolts may not be an M5/6 thread, more likely a screw style thread.

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    733
    Just got mine. Shoulder screws are mounted using screws with normal threads, so inserts would work for the toes if you can get the right insert screws. The only problem i can see being is the the diameter (width) of the screw shaft, the M5 insert screws may be slightly more narrow the the screws provided. M5 insert screw is 4.8mm, screw provided is 5.4mm (i'm guessing thats M6 specs), which leaves a little extra gap within the shaft of the shoulder screw. Since the shoulder screws being secure are such a critical part of the system, you would likely have to fill that gap to assure that everything works properly. Or the very small gap may be fine, but its worth considering.

    See photo. Left: Normal screw. Right: Insert screw

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  6. #156
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    7
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I just picked mine mine up and let me tell you what. There are amazing. Best CAST system to date. Everything is so solid it is unbelievably. They weigh more than Dynafits and probably right around a Kingpin. But weight isn’t the reason to buy these, you get them because you want a P18 on the way down. Lars and Silas really knocked it out of the park with these. If anybody wants more photos just reply so and I will take somebody more.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    474
    Did you heilcoil the toes? The instructions didnt say anything about having to do that

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,788
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pretzel View Post
    Did you heilcoil the toes? The instructions didnt say anything about having to do that
    Its not required, only done for precautionary reasons

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    7
    I did not helicoil the toes, but I did use a Look mounting jig. These bindings are the cats pajamas!Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #160
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    4,166
    that looks sick, thanks for the pics

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    105
    jdatour and tjbs thanks for the pics. Answered a lot of the questions I was having trying to figure out how the shoulder bolts mounted to the ski.

    Maybe there aren't enough of people out here who already have BF or QK inserts in their skis to matter, but that's a group of potential users who need to be able to use M5 screws to mount the shoulder bolts. It makes me wonder if the shear strength of the M5 isn't strong enough and they had to go with the larger screw (apparently comparable to M6) for that reason. Does anyone know first hand it it was a shear strength issue? Or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the headaches from inserts that weren't installed perfectly plumb and in line.

    If it's not a shear strength problem, it's at least theoretically possible for someone to fab a bolt with M5 threads to fit the inserts and a thicker body to fill the center of the shoulder bolt. Maybe this is one of the ideas for Cast 3.0.

    Also, what is the point of the toe plate? Couldn't they have just screwed 4 shoulder bolts in to the ski using the mount pattern and called it a day?

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by skibrd View Post
    False, read the website again. It reduces touring weight by up to 1000 grams, it's not 1000 grams. I'll get a weight later this week for a reference.

    And, P18s weight 1250 grams, so take the toe off thr ski and the weight of the ski you are lifting every step is less then SHIFT.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using TGR Forums mobile app
    Big Bird, We are not below the Shift for touring weight. Our touring weight is 1064g(tech toe on, Pivot toe off). The Shift is 850g. I'll try to stay up to date on this thread and answer questions when possible.

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    733
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lab View Post
    jdatour and tjbs thanks for the pics. Answered a lot of the questions I was having trying to figure out how the shoulder bolts mounted to the ski.

    Maybe there aren't enough of people out here who already have BF or QK inserts in their skis to matter, but that's a group of potential users who need to be able to use M5 screws to mount the shoulder bolts. It makes me wonder if the shear strength of the M5 isn't strong enough and they had to go with the larger screw (apparently comparable to M6) for that reason. Does anyone know first hand it it was a shear strength issue? Or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the headaches from inserts that weren't installed perfectly plumb and in line.

    If it's not a shear strength problem, it's at least theoretically possible for someone to fab a bolt with M5 threads to fit the inserts and a thicker body to fill the center of the shoulder bolt. Maybe this is one of the ideas for Cast 3.0.

    Also, what is the point of the toe plate? Couldn't they have just screwed 4 shoulder bolts in to the ski using the mount pattern and called it a day?
    I am going to attempt mounting the toes using my inserts and the M5 screws. I'm worried more about the lack of thickness of the M5 screw within the shoulder bolt than the shear strength, and am going to devise a way to make up that space with something like electrical wire heat shrink tubing on the top part of the bolt only (leaving the threads on the bottom exposed) to increase the thickness. In theory it should work. Any input from the CAST guys would be very helpful too!

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lab View Post
    jdatour and tjbs thanks for the pics. Answered a lot of the questions I was having trying to figure out how the shoulder bolts mounted to the ski.

    Maybe there aren't enough of people out here who already have BF or QK inserts in their skis to matter, but that's a group of potential users who need to be able to use M5 screws to mount the shoulder bolts. It makes me wonder if the shear strength of the M5 isn't strong enough and they had to go with the larger screw (apparently comparable to M6) for that reason. Does anyone know first hand it it was a shear strength issue? Or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the headaches from inserts that weren't installed perfectly plumb and in line.

    If it's not a shear strength problem, it's at least theoretically possible for someone to fab a bolt with M5 threads to fit the inserts and a thicker body to fill the center of the shoulder bolt. Maybe this is one of the ideas for Cast 3.0.

    Also, what is the point of the toe plate? Couldn't they have just screwed 4 shoulder bolts in to the ski using the mount pattern and called it a day?
    Gray Lab, you'll notice in the last pic from tjburkesalad there is a small dimple in the toe shim. The locks for both the alpine and tech toes work using this dimple. The shim also gives a clean flat sliding surface for the bindings to slide on. Not necessarily the case with many top sheets.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    I am going to attempt mounting the toes using my inserts and the M5 screws. I'm worried more about the lack of thickness of the M5 screw within the shoulder bolt than the shear strength, and am going to devise a way to make up that space with something like electrical wire heat shrink tubing on the top part of the bolt only (leaving the threads on the bottom exposed) to increase the thickness. In theory it should work. Any input from the CAST guys would be very helpful too!
    The Flathead of the M5 screw should be enough to locate the shoulder when fully tightened. Heat shrink could help to take some space if you're concerned but may be unnecessary. We don't use inserts because they often add unneeded issues.

    We went with M5.5 binding screw sizing because it is standard, they work well, and helicoils tend to work better/fail less than inserts. To be clear, Lars and I use helicoils occasionally, usually only if threads become unusable from swapping bindings continuously. We also generally ski skis(read praxis) with solid hardwood cores and this is rarely an issue.

    Interested to hear feedback on using with inserts as well as general reactions to this first generation. Thanks for the support.

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    733
    Quote Originally Posted by silaschickeringayers View Post
    The Flathead of the M5 screw should be enough to locate the shoulder when fully tightened. Heat shrink could help to take some space if you're concerned but may be unnecessary. We don't use inserts because they often add unneeded issues.

    We went with M5.5 binding screw sizing because it is standard, they work well, and helicoils tend to work better/fail less than inserts. To be clear, Lars and I use helicoils occasionally, usually only if threads become unusable from swapping bindings continuously. We also generally ski skis(read praxis) with solid hardwood cores and this is rarely an issue.

    Interested to hear feedback on using with inserts as well as general reactions to this first generation. Thanks for the support.
    Thanks for the input Silas! I ordered some Flathead 18mm M5 screws. Will mount with the inserts and report back. Also think the heat shrink may be unnecessary, but Im going to try both ways and see if they mount any differently.

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by silaschickeringayers View Post
    Gray Lab, you'll notice in the last pic from tjburkesalad there is a small dimple in the toe shim. The locks for both the alpine and tech toes work using this dimple.
    Thanks Silas. The dimple was covered earlier, too. My bad.

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Swiss alps
    Posts
    460
    New product looks awesome guys!

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    733
    Update. Just mounted the toes with inserts perfectly fine. Used some flathead 18mm M5 insert screws and they feel very solid. I dont think my concern about the screws being too narrow is relevant.

    Also did the same process of getting the toe on, and then tightening the screw all the way down. Worked well and seems like the logical way to do it.

    This system is SUPER SICK. Props to CAST, worth the wait.

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    in the shadow of the white rocks
    Posts
    1,511
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    Just posting in this very important thead. Mounted some Cast soles to a WC Plug boot. Reactions were mixed at the shop, as most thought it was great- one guy told me he was quite upset for ‘putting the shop in the postition of being involved in an irresponsible set-up’.....

    They have held up superbly. Reminds me I need to send a pic to the shop.

  21. #171
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kootenays
    Posts
    1,346
    Some weights for everyone:

    Everything is per ski...
    Toe Piece mounting screws (with collars): 27 g
    Toe Piece SS plate: 38 g
    Tech toe: 125g
    Cast modded Look toe (no AFD): 511 g
    thin AFD: 23 g
    thick AFD: 28 g
    Heel mounting screws: 14 g
    Look Heel piece: 764 g
    Touring riser/brake retainer: 91 g
    Touring riser mounting screws: 8 g

    So skiing weight on the ski: 1476-1481 g, with 125 g in the pack.
    Touring weight on the ski: 1090-1095 g, with 511g in your pack.

    Total system weight: 1601-1606 g.

    Again, those are per ski numbers.
    Last edited by snoboy; 03-03-2018 at 11:55 PM. Reason: spilling

  22. #172
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,020
    Quote Originally Posted by snoboy View Post
    Some weights for everyone:

    Everything is per ski...
    Toe Piece mounting screws (with collars): 27 g
    Toe Piece SS plate: 38 g
    Tech toe: 125g
    Cast modded Look toe (no AFD): 511 g
    thin AFD: 23 g
    thick AFD: 28 g
    Heel mounting screws: 14 g
    Look Heel piece: 764 g
    Touring riser/brake retainer: 91 g
    Touring riser mounting screws: 8 g

    So skiing weight on the ski: 1476-1481 g, with 125 g in the pack.
    Touring weight on the ski: 1090-1095 g, with 511g in your pack.

    Total system weight: 1601-1606 g.

    Again, those are per ski numbers.
    Isn't just over a kilo about the weight of a frame binding ?

    better ergonomics than a frame binding

    looks good for a certain focus group of users !
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #173
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,233
    I may be barking up the wrong tree, but for anyone that is interested in the Salomon Shift over the CAST (which is dope no doubt), we got a TGR group preorder going with a discount. Check it out if you're interested

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-SHIFT-Binders

  24. #174
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,020
    different focus group and its already available
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,233
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    different focus group and its already available
    Word. There not a competition from my POV. I'm spreading information

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