The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

[crusoe]

I asked them about this a while back. Toe alone won't work with QK because as mentioned QK are M-5 screws and the the CAST toe uses M-6 screws/shoulder bolts (unless something changed).

[bobbuilds]

Just because binding freedom and quiver killer only make m5 inserts does not mean you can’t put inserts in a ski for m6. M6 is available online, in stainless at the same 9.5mm depth as an m5. Ill bet you could even ask John to see if he can have 1000 made in a m6 so you all can have a group buy and fuck the guy who makes them.

[jdadour]

Just because binding freedom and quiver killer only make m5 inserts does not mean you can’t put inserts in a ski for m6. M6 is available online, in stainless at the same 9.5mm depth as an m5. Ill bet you could even ask John to see if he can have 1000 made in a m6 so you all can have a group buy and fuck the guy who makes them.

Can you elaborate on the M6 inserts? Im planning on mounting my CAST into inserts and may have to get these.

[snoboy]

I'm thinking along the lines of M5 BF inserts for the heel, and a second ski kit from Cast for the toe. Then you just have skis with the shoulder bolts and that thin plate. Not as smooth for packing multiple skis up in a bag, but still pretty nice.

I will investigate that option further when they get here to see if it looks feasible. First I am going to ski them and make sure they don't blow up good before making too many concessions in my quiver.

Going on second hand info here - if the Cast guys are heli coiling them, then that suggests to me that the toe bolts may not be an M5/6 thread, more likely a screw style thread.

[jdadour]

Just got mine. Shoulder screws are mounted using screws with normal threads, so inserts would work for the toes if you can get the right insert screws. The only problem i can see being is the the diameter (width) of the screw shaft, the M5 insert screws may be slightly more narrow the the screws provided. M5 insert screw is 4.8mm, screw provided is 5.4mm (i'm guessing thats M6 specs), which leaves a little extra gap within the shaft of the shoulder screw. Since the shoulder screws being secure are such a critical part of the system, you would likely have to fill that gap to assure that everything works properly. Or the very small gap may be fine, but its worth considering.

See photo. Left: Normal screw. Right: Insert screw

[tjburkesalad]

I just picked mine mine up and let me tell you what. There are amazing. Best CAST system to date. Everything is so solid it is unbelievably. They weigh more than Dynafits and probably right around a Kingpin. But weight isn’t the reason to buy these, you get them because you want a P18 on the way down. Lars and Silas really knocked it out of the park with these. If anybody wants more photos just reply so and I will take somebody more.

[mr_pretzel]

Did you heilcoil the toes? The instructions didnt say anything about having to do that

[skibrd]

Did you heilcoil the toes? The instructions didnt say anything about having to do that

Its not required, only done for precautionary reasons

[tjburkesalad]

I did not helicoil the toes, but I did use a Look mounting jig. These bindings are the cats pajamas!

[east or bust]

that looks sick, thanks for the pics

[Gray Lab]

jdatour and tjbs thanks for the pics. Answered a lot of the questions I was having trying to figure out how the shoulder bolts mounted to the ski.

Maybe there aren't enough of people out here who already have BF or QK inserts in their skis to matter, but that's a group of potential users who need to be able to use M5 screws to mount the shoulder bolts. It makes me wonder if the shear strength of the M5 isn't strong enough and they had to go with the larger screw (apparently comparable to M6) for that reason. Does anyone know first hand it it was a shear strength issue? Or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the headaches from inserts that weren't installed perfectly plumb and in line.

If it's not a shear strength problem, it's at least theoretically possible for someone to fab a bolt with M5 threads to fit the inserts and a thicker body to fill the center of the shoulder bolt. Maybe this is one of the ideas for Cast 3.0.

Also, what is the point of the toe plate? Couldn't they have just screwed 4 shoulder bolts in to the ski using the mount pattern and called it a day?

[silaschickeringayers]

False, read the website again. It reduces touring weight by up to 1000 grams, it's not 1000 grams. I'll get a weight later this week for a reference.

And, P18s weight 1250 grams, so take the toe off thr ski and the weight of the ski you are lifting every step is less then SHIFT.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using TGR Forums mobile app

Big Bird, We are not below the Shift for touring weight. Our touring weight is 1064g(tech toe on, Pivot toe off). The Shift is 850g. I'll try to stay up to date on this thread and answer questions when possible.

[jdadour]

jdatour and tjbs thanks for the pics. Answered a lot of the questions I was having trying to figure out how the shoulder bolts mounted to the ski.

Maybe there aren't enough of people out here who already have BF or QK inserts in their skis to matter, but that's a group of potential users who need to be able to use M5 screws to mount the shoulder bolts. It makes me wonder if the shear strength of the M5 isn't strong enough and they had to go with the larger screw (apparently comparable to M6) for that reason. Does anyone know first hand it it was a shear strength issue? Or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the headaches from inserts that weren't installed perfectly plumb and in line.

If it's not a shear strength problem, it's at least theoretically possible for someone to fab a bolt with M5 threads to fit the inserts and a thicker body to fill the center of the shoulder bolt. Maybe this is one of the ideas for Cast 3.0.

Also, what is the point of the toe plate? Couldn't they have just screwed 4 shoulder bolts in to the ski using the mount pattern and called it a day?

I am going to attempt mounting the toes using my inserts and the M5 screws. I'm worried more about the lack of thickness of the M5 screw within the shoulder bolt than the shear strength, and am going to devise a way to make up that space with something like electrical wire heat shrink tubing on the top part of the bolt only (leaving the threads on the bottom exposed) to increase the thickness. In theory it should work. Any input from the CAST guys would be very helpful too!

[silaschickeringayers]

jdatour and tjbs thanks for the pics. Answered a lot of the questions I was having trying to figure out how the shoulder bolts mounted to the ski.

Maybe there aren't enough of people out here who already have BF or QK inserts in their skis to matter, but that's a group of potential users who need to be able to use M5 screws to mount the shoulder bolts. It makes me wonder if the shear strength of the M5 isn't strong enough and they had to go with the larger screw (apparently comparable to M6) for that reason. Does anyone know first hand it it was a shear strength issue? Or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the headaches from inserts that weren't installed perfectly plumb and in line.

If it's not a shear strength problem, it's at least theoretically possible for someone to fab a bolt with M5 threads to fit the inserts and a thicker body to fill the center of the shoulder bolt. Maybe this is one of the ideas for Cast 3.0.

Also, what is the point of the toe plate? Couldn't they have just screwed 4 shoulder bolts in to the ski using the mount pattern and called it a day?

Gray Lab, you'll notice in the last pic from tjburkesalad there is a small dimple in the toe shim. The locks for both the alpine and tech toes work using this dimple. The shim also gives a clean flat sliding surface for the bindings to slide on. Not necessarily the case with many top sheets.

[silaschickeringayers]

I am going to attempt mounting the toes using my inserts and the M5 screws. I'm worried more about the lack of thickness of the M5 screw within the shoulder bolt than the shear strength, and am going to devise a way to make up that space with something like electrical wire heat shrink tubing on the top part of the bolt only (leaving the threads on the bottom exposed) to increase the thickness. In theory it should work. Any input from the CAST guys would be very helpful too!

The Flathead of the M5 screw should be enough to locate the shoulder when fully tightened. Heat shrink could help to take some space if you're concerned but may be unnecessary. We don't use inserts because they often add unneeded issues.

We went with M5.5 binding screw sizing because it is standard, they work well, and helicoils tend to work better/fail less than inserts. To be clear, Lars and I use helicoils occasionally, usually only if threads become unusable from swapping bindings continuously. We also generally ski skis(read praxis) with solid hardwood cores and this is rarely an issue.

Interested to hear feedback on using with inserts as well as general reactions to this first generation. Thanks for the support.

[jdadour]

The Flathead of the M5 screw should be enough to locate the shoulder when fully tightened. Heat shrink could help to take some space if you're concerned but may be unnecessary. We don't use inserts because they often add unneeded issues.

We went with M5.5 binding screw sizing because it is standard, they work well, and helicoils tend to work better/fail less than inserts. To be clear, Lars and I use helicoils occasionally, usually only if threads become unusable from swapping bindings continuously. We also generally ski skis(read praxis) with solid hardwood cores and this is rarely an issue.

Interested to hear feedback on using with inserts as well as general reactions to this first generation. Thanks for the support.

Thanks for the input Silas! I ordered some Flathead 18mm M5 screws. Will mount with the inserts and report back. Also think the heat shrink may be unnecessary, but Im going to try both ways and see if they mount any differently.

[Gray Lab]

Gray Lab, you'll notice in the last pic from tjburkesalad there is a small dimple in the toe shim. The locks for both the alpine and tech toes work using this dimple.

Thanks Silas. The dimple was covered earlier, too. My bad.

[smooth operator]

New product looks awesome guys!

[jdadour]

Update. Just mounted the toes with inserts perfectly fine. Used some flathead 18mm M5 insert screws and they feel very solid. I dont think my concern about the screws being too narrow is relevant.

Also did the same process of getting the toe on, and then tightening the screw all the way down. Worked well and seems like the logical way to do it.

This system is SUPER SICK. Props to CAST, worth the wait.

[iriponsnow]

Just posting in this very important thead. Mounted some Cast soles to a WC Plug boot. Reactions were mixed at the shop, as most thought it was great- one guy told me he was quite upset for ‘putting the shop in the postition of being involved in an irresponsible set-up’.....

They have held up superbly. Reminds me I need to send a pic to the shop.

[snoboy]

Some weights for everyone:

Everything is per ski...
Toe Piece mounting screws (with collars): 27 g
Toe Piece SS plate: 38 g
Tech toe: 125g
Cast modded Look toe (no AFD): 511 g
thin AFD: 23 g
thick AFD: 28 g
Heel mounting screws: 14 g
Look Heel piece: 764 g
Touring riser/brake retainer: 91 g
Touring riser mounting screws: 8 g

So skiing weight on the ski: 1476-1481 g, with 125 g in the pack.
Touring weight on the ski: 1090-1095 g, with 511g in your pack.

Total system weight: 1601-1606 g.

Again, those are per ski numbers.

[XXX-er]

Some weights for everyone:

Everything is per ski...
Toe Piece mounting screws (with collars): 27 g
Toe Piece SS plate: 38 g
Tech toe: 125g
Cast modded Look toe (no AFD): 511 g
thin AFD: 23 g
thick AFD: 28 g
Heel mounting screws: 14 g
Look Heel piece: 764 g
Touring riser/brake retainer: 91 g
Touring riser mounting screws: 8 g

So skiing weight on the ski: 1476-1481 g, with 125 g in the pack.
Touring weight on the ski: 1090-1095 g, with 511g in your pack.

Total system weight: 1601-1606 g.

Again, those are per ski numbers.

Isn't just over a kilo about the weight of a frame binding ?

better ergonomics than a frame binding

looks good for a certain focus group of users !

[margotron]

I may be barking up the wrong tree, but for anyone that is interested in the Salomon Shift over the CAST (which is dope no doubt), we got a TGR group preorder going with a discount. Check it out if you're interested

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-SHIFT-Binders

[XXX-er]

different focus group and its already available

[margotron]

different focus group and its already available

Word. There not a competition from my POV. I'm spreading information