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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    191
    Quote Originally Posted by skibrd View Post
    P18s cost $250?
    My thoughts on the price were:
    1. RRP for P18 is around $350
    2. If buying the whole CAST2 bundle, there should be some discount on it. In that case P18 in a bundle will probably be sold for wholesale price

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    2,874
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Binding toes allow a lot more margin for misaligned holes than the new CAST2 system will. Screws can go in crooked and still clamp down just fine, but crooked or mis-positioned pins won't line up with the slots in the toe baseplate so easily.

    The second issue is how screws are designed to work. Screws and bolts aren't supposed to use their shear strength, they're intended for a tensile load which clamps one part against another, and the substantial friction between those two clamped surfaces prevents the hardware from experiencing a shear load. That's why the CAST screws are so fat - the loading in this application is 100% shear. The wide shoulder against the ski and the super-thick heads are designed to resist wiggling of the screws, and minimize screw thread movement in the ski.

    The CAST2 design is the best that can be done considering the challenges of a pin design like this. My point is the more stout the ski, the less potential there is for the screws rocking and loosening. Given the type of skis the target customer uses, it's unlikely to be an issue for most folks.
    There's a lot of assumptions baked in there. First, from at least one description it seems they purposely left clearance around the screws, since it isn't all taken up until the boot is in place. So how much mis-alignment can be tolerated can only be a guess. Second, the screws may suffer slightly from losing friction as a load path, but not much and that's never dependable anyway; being put in bending is what makes screws need to grow fat, not shear. And it's not the first binding to use a shoulder bolt, though it might be the first to use 4 on the toe? Maybe CAST3 will use a few less shoulder bolts, but that's a pretty incremental improvement. Looking at the mounts for some rossi demo bindings, this whole scheme looks like it started on a pretty solid foundation.

    But I agree, given the target audience, not a lot of point cowboying mounts.

    There are almost certainly some existing inserts out there that will fit the screws, just not standard binding screw inserts (try PEM or any number of industrial supply houses). Just measure/match the threads and don't use some smooth OD insert and there's definitely a way. BF on the heels, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    this is an internet forum, it is assumed no one actually knows what they're talking about, and nothing anyone says here makes any difference. If you came here seeking an informed opinion on the subject, I'm sorry you were disappointed. If you came here knowing it would all be BS and you just wanted to spout about it being BS, go crawl back under a rock.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    What an elegant evolution of an already sweet first generation product!

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I see what 1000-oaks is saying regarding alignment. All four shoulder screws need to be perpendicular to the baseplate (and obviously precisely located) so they'll align perfectly with the keyholes on the toepiece's baseplate.

    If you locate the holes perfectly, then small tapping errors (as far as perpendicularity is concerned) would be corrected, as the shoulder of the screw will draw it into place - maybe not so much with a metal topsheet, however.

    I can see where mounting would require the same skill level as that for aligning a tech binding toe piece - think about what you're doing and drill one hole at a time if you have any doubts.

    Am I correct that the toepiece's keyhole baseplate is manufactured (or re-machined to create the keyhole mounting) by CAST for compatibility with the shoulder screws - IOW, it's not a standard toe?

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 04-12-2017 at 08:48 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  4. #29
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    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
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    5,114
    Looks like a billet toe pedestal.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    191
    This was probably obvious, but I just realised that due to the toe pedestal you won't be able to use your own p18s or p14s. I assume it will be impossible to buy this custom CAST toebase and attach it to your old p18s, so you have to buy full CAST2 bundle. Do I understand this correctly?

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    3
    Looking at the din ranges, and the design of the toe piece, it sounds like the 4-14 version is a one piece toe (a-la p18's) not the two wing design of standard p14 toepieces?

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Fernie and/or Smithers
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    1,208
    Y'all can take the toes off the stock pedestals no problem. Will CAST sell the pedestals seperately?

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kootenays
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    Some good info in the comments of this post on New Schoolers. Answers several of the questions above.

  9. #34
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    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    Thanks for the link, but not much new there. I do like the fact that they emphasized the touring weight being close to that of a Beast or Kingpin. This was lost on me.

    I'm trying to remember the FKS 155 style toe housing to be used for the DIN 4-14 version - I recall it being all metal - functionally equivalent to the Pivot 18 toe?

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  10. #35
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    Dec 2004
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    Simi Valley, CA
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    5,114
    From the photos, the FKS 155 looks the same as the 18, guessing the only difference is the springs. Look still offers that 15 DIN toe on its race bindings, without the turntable heel.

  11. #36
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    Dec 2005
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    Kootenays
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    The meat is in the comments.

    "We'll be doing the older style, metal toe, 4-14." "yep, a 4-14 din in the pivot 18/fks 155 style toe housing."

  12. #37
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    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    Thanks, I reread it a short while ago, and this time I got it ;-)

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    I like the engineering of Cast version 2

    They have eliminated the adapter concept of Cast 1, instead of trying to accommodate every beef binding out there Cast attempted to perfect one good binding sorry all you Salomon fanboys

    I think snow buildup problems will be less at the toe interface, its lower profile, stronger and I assume lighter ?

    edit: a finished product period is much less likely to go sideways
    Last edited by XXX-er; 04-14-2017 at 01:09 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    191
    Just got a message from Lars, saying that P18 toes modification for CAST2 is intense and they will do it by themselves. So, no toe pedestals for sale. Plus that makes cast-modified P18 toe a must buy. Pretty sad

  15. #40
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    Just got a message from Lars, saying that P18 toes modification for CAST2 is intense and they will do it by themselves. So, no toe pedestals for sale. Plus that makes cast-modified P18 toe a must buy. Pretty sad
    Comments like these touch a nerve with me, as I'm a small manufacturer. I'm not trying to single you out.

    I'm not at all surprised or disappointed about their not offering parts for user instsllation. A lot of design, testing and engineering went into this product, and they deserve to make a fair profit. Remember, we're talking about small volume production.

    As far as offering pedestals for user installation is concerned, I can envision the support nightmare, without even taking liability concerns into account. I've been through DIY support, and you don't want to do this.

    I had to smile when one of the New Schoolers drew a price comparison between Cast & the Kingpin, and to him, the Kingpin won. To each his own, but to complain about Cast because of pricing is misinformed in my opinion.

    These aren't made in the third world, and maggots deserve to make a living for their dedication and effort.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  16. #41
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    Cast 1 was essentially an adapter system, I seem to remember a lot of problems with that whole adapter concept ?

    I think Cast decided to eliminate those^^ problems by selling "A working binding" period ... smart IMO

    I don't think you can you buy half a Marker Kingpin or a Marker p18 either ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    I had to smile when one of the New Schoolers drew a price comparison between Cast & the Kingpin, and to him, the Kingpin won. To each his own, but to complain about Cast because of pricing is misinformed in my opinion.
    Im not near so kind so I had to laugh

    They may both be touring bindings but they do very different things, if dropping big lines on big sksi with plug boots is what you wana do Cast is your no compromise choice but for light duty an AT boot/Kingpin make more sense ... Its like comparing apples and oranges
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #43
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    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Im not near so kind so I had to laugh

    They may both be touring bindings but they do very different things, if dropping big lines on big sksi with plug boots is what you wana do Cast is your no compromise choice but for light duty an AT boot/Kingpin make more sense ... Its like comparing apples and oranges
    Well, of course you're right about that. I was focused on the "something for nothing" mentality.

    It's not as apples/oranges as one might assume. The equivalent touring weight of the two is key. Yes, you have to stuff a pair of toes in your pack, so it's not a mulit-lap tool, so they're different use-cases from that perspective. From a weight perspective however, not so much.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 08-29-2017 at 03:08 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  19. #44
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    My sister was online/phone IT tech support and their offline term for the customer was "End loser"

    Its not just the something for nothing its about shit plain not working cuz there were just way more things for the end loser to fuckup with Cast 1

    I predict way less problems with Cast 2
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    in the trench
    Posts
    8,735
    My cast 1's with Solomon still work as new although I have to reapply some loctite on the toe height adjust screw. I've been adjusting it between my alpine lupo and touring lupo so the old loctite is gone so it loosens throughout the day ATM. New system does look better in every way though. Really looks like they've crossed the t's and dotted all the i's on this one. Still would be nice to remove the heel like the toe and maybe a lighter version option without the steel look housings , for us old fucks that stay much closer to the ground than Lars/Silas .
    I'm guessing i could put the heel on inserts and have inserts for a tech heel for longer bc days? Maybe the toe piece would be too far forward or maybe the toe isn't designed to be releaseable in ski mode like regular tech toes?

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Comments like these touch a nerve with me, as I'm a small manufacturer. I'm not trying to single you out.

    I'm not at all surprised or disappointed about their not offering parts for user instsllation. A lot of design, testing and engineering went into this product, and they deserve to make a fair profit. Remember, we're talking about small volume production.

    As far as offering pedestals for user installation is concerned, I can envision the support nightmare, without even taking liability concerns into account. I've been through DIY support, and you don't want to do this.

    I had to smile when one of the New Schoolers drew a price comparison between Cast & the Kingpin, and to him, the Kingpin won. To each his own, but to complain about Cast because of pricing is misinformed in my opinion.

    These aren't made in the third world, and maggots deserve to make a living for their dedication and effort.

    ... Thom
    Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but you really overthought what I said. I'm not saying that maggots don't deserve their money for dedication and effort or that the product is bad in any way. It's just that a very small niche production got even smaller. One of the coolest things with CAST-1 was that you obviously got some parts of this equation - alpine binding or/and dynafit binding and you just needed plates to make this setup work. Pretty easy and you have such a variety of what you can do with your quiver. And last but not least - if you dislike CAST-1, you can just unmount it and sell the plates. But what you get with CAST-2 is a setup with machined dynafit-like toe and machined P18 toe that are completely useless outside CAST-2 setup. Very limiting. Plus it's expensive. Plus a significant part of the sum won't reward maggots but will go straight to Look.

    IMO, people expected CAST just to do a troubleshooting for the first version. The price for this would have been compatibility with only one alpine binding - Pivot. It appeared that the sacrifice is much higher. But once again - all this is just my POV, not trying to set minds here. I'm still excited for the product and looking forward for first reviews.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,242
    I agree with this ^^^. I've been thinking about it a lot and what my needs are. I've decided that CAST can keep my $20 and I wish them the best but just not what I need

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    WA
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    2,508
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I don't think you can you buy half a Marker Kingpin or a Marker p18 either ?
    I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of Maggots suddenly cried out in terror.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    seatown
    Posts
    3,310
    and 12.6K posts lose their validity.

    shame.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Squamish, BC
    Posts
    713
    Why not just think of it as though Cast just made a whole new binding. It just happens to be similar in some ways to a p18.
    But it's no longer an upgrade kit to other bindings.
    Think about it as it is. Then are you happy with the idea? I am. So I'm ordering a pair.

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