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  1. #1
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    Did I fuck up? Skin glue issue

    I have dynafit skins on dynafit skis, I bought them in Whistler as demos, but they looked like they got very little use. I have put two seasons on them, 10-20 days/season (I don't tour as much as I would like). Never had a problem before, but Sunday when I stripped the skins a shit load of glue stuck to the based, I literally had to walk and pole down nearly 30 degree slopes. On the plus side, when everybody else was side steeping up a hill, I walked right up, it was like having klister wax on the skis.

    I used them in my Avi 1 class and we were just walking around on flatish slopes each day (no downhill and did not rip skins), so I just left the skins on the skis to dry rather then stripping them a hanging to dry (which is my usual MO). Is the problem from having the skins and glue on the skies over night at room temp? Of course the glue may have just gone bad over the summer (first use this season of this ski/skin combo), but I have other skins for years without issue.

    Fortunately it was all of 200' of vert., so no big deal, but it would have really sucked if this happened with 3,000' of steep chute skiing to do.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  2. #2
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    I've left my skins on overnight multiple times and never experienced that kind of issue. Sounds like the issue is with the glue itself.

  3. #3
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    I've had the same experiences as well as a few other people around here...

    It can happen if there's too much water content in the glue, or if there's a quality control issue with the glue.

    Things to keep in mind: Don't dry your skins too close to heat. Drip dry where it's warm enough for the ice/snow to melt off the skins is the best way to dry them. Don't store them anywhere where it gets too hot, or too humid.

    People have suggested trying parchment paper or paper bags over the skin, then an iron on top, but honestly. an iron (ideally a waxing one with no holes) straight to the skins has worked the best. It won't make them like new, but it will heat the glue up, melt out a ton of water, and cause you slightly less headaches on the hill. Friend has dynafit skins (or whoever makes them), had the same problem a few weeks ago, iron the shit out of them and is still using them... That said, you really should just reglue your skins. It's not hard.

    I've mainly stuck to G3 and BD, but from my experiences, BD Gold Label is the best skin glue around. You can treat it pretty poorly and it still does a great job. G3 gets shitty after a while then eventually starts sticking to your skis like dynafit.

    TLDR: When your glue gets shitty, take it off and put on BD Gold Label, you shouldn't 'really' be mixing glues, so remove as much as you can. Iron ons are crap, get the stuff in the tube. In the meantime, iron the glue side of your skins to hopefully get them to a usable state until you re-glue.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    Is the problem from having the skins and glue on the skies over night at room temp?
    The skin manufacturers, at least G3, say yes.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalisto View Post
    I've had the same experiences as well as a few other people around here...

    It can happen if there's too much water content in the glue, or if there's a quality control issue with the glue.

    Things to keep in mind: Don't dry your skins too close to heat. Drip dry where it's warm enough for the ice/snow to melt off the skins is the best way to dry them. Don't store them anywhere where it gets too hot, or too humid.

    People have suggested trying parchment paper or paper bags over the skin, then an iron on top, but honestly. an iron (ideally a waxing one with no holes) straight to the skins has worked the best. It won't make them like new, but it will heat the glue up, melt out a ton of water, and cause you slightly less headaches on the hill. Friend has dynafit skins (or whoever makes them), had the same problem a few weeks ago, iron the shit out of them and is still using them... That said, you really should just reglue your skins. It's not hard.

    I've mainly stuck to G3 and BD, but from my experiences, BD Gold Label is the best skin glue around. You can treat it pretty poorly and it still does a great job. G3 gets shitty after a while then eventually starts sticking to your skis like dynafit.

    TLDR: When your glue gets shitty, take it off and put on BD Gold Label, you shouldn't 'really' be mixing glues, so remove as much as you can. Iron ons are crap, get the stuff in the tube. In the meantime, iron the glue side of your skins to hopefully get them to a usable state until you re-glue.
    yeah exactly pretty much what Kalsito sez, I can add:

    IMO the important thing with climbing skins is not so much drying the plush side its making sure the glue doesn't sit there absorbing the water and yeah its not a good idea to leave skins stuck to skis. I have seen glue discolor and go white where water sits on it for too long SO probably you fucked up by letting the glue stay wet the good news ... it was a cheap fuckup

    try heating them You can just turn your skins glue side up on the ski and iron them but I have a piece of plywood in my shop wide enough to stretch a pair of skins out on cuz its just way more convenient, I use parchment paper and I crank my digital wax iron to 320, note that ski waxing is done at about 270F but you need more heat to reglue or rejuvenate, if you use parchment the glue will be as smoove as the day you peeled off the backing

    If you need to replace the glue the Iron on sheets of glue are OK and I've used the G3 sheets but sheets of glue cost 4 times as much as a 10$ tube of gold label and the results are not any different SO why not save 30$ ?

    read the glue box it sez you you need to heat glue, I know lots of people just add glue and don't heat, I have only used the heat method , I don't add glue, I don't mix glue brands, if glue is missing or fucked up I replace all of it, I use gold label on pomoca skins on G3 skins and the world has not quit turning

    Dynafit skins are made by Pomoca, IMO better glide and they are lighter than G3 or BD, I have a set for my stokes and my denali, I just reheated the set for my Denalis cuz glue was sticking to my hands

    If you need to reglue its way easier if you securely attach the skins to a board, heat the glue with a heat gun and scrape it all off with a 4" putty knife, scrape towards the cenetr of the skin so it doesnt get on the plush. Spread the new glue on evenly, lay the parchment down and iron it flat, I always put the board with the skins out over night to freeze and the paper comes off easy with no glue on the paper
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  6. #6
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    Wax your skis.

    In the meantime that nasty orange base solvent will get that crap off.

    I chucked a pair of my corn skis in my garage right after my last ski for the season one year with skins on. Similar thing happened but not as drastic. But they sat for a whole summer.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  7. #7
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    https://www.amazon.com/Nikwax-Ski-Sk.../dp/B00HWG13YM

    if you wana make your life easier put this stuff on your skins and they will not glop in spring

    the plush doesn't seem to get wet so snow doesn't stick
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalisto View Post

    People have suggested trying parchment paper or paper bags over the skin, then an iron on top,
    I was reading that again and it should be noted that parchment paper will fix your existing glue or smoove out your new glue job BUT ironing skin glue with paper bags is a common way to soak up and REMOVE glue from skins ... you will get very different results

    I had a buddy iron his glue with paper bags to purposely remove old glue and things were going ok until he ran out of paper bags so he uses newspaper which created a fucking mess, I did a house call with my heat gun & putty knife, fixed him up ...scored a case of beer!
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    (first use this season of this ski/skin combo), but I have other skins for years without issue.
    couple questions, when was the last time you waxed these skis? And what were the temps & snow conditions like when these failed?

    I have found that leaving skins on overnight can really mess with the glue both in how it will stick to the skis and how much glue will be stuck to the ski.

  10. #10
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    I don't remember when I last waxed them, but the bases didn't appear dry. Snow for the first two days was pretty warm and wet, so the skins probably did soak up a lot of water.

    I will do a good ironing, wax the skis well and see what happens. The dynafit skins have worked well for me, but reliving is always an option.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  11. #11
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    Some of the glue stuck better to your ski base than to the skin. I've seen this happen with a few G3 and older Pomoca skins, never seen it happen with BD skins. Good chance the glue deteriorated over the summer.

    If there's enough glue left I'd first try a refresh per iron over parchment paper, but in all likelihood you need a reglue.

    +1 to kidwoo's suggestion to use citrus solvent to clean the skis.

    Yeah, you shouldn't leave skins on skis at room temp overnight, especially if they aren't waxed.

    At the risk of stirring up the TGR cheat sheet haters, IME cheat sheets are handy for drying wet skins.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalisto View Post
    People have suggested trying parchment paper or paper bags over the skin, then an iron on top. . . .
    Different things. Parchment paper + iron to refresh existing glue or cooking in reglue. Brown paper bag + iron to remove glue. ETA: I see XXXer beat me to it.

  12. #12
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    XXX-er's Amazon link got me looking around and I came across I a recommendation to actually hot wax skins. This is beyond just the purple BD gobstopper Apparently its a rondo racer thing. Anybody tired this?

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    Different things. Parchment paper + iron to refresh existing glue or cooking in reglue. Brown paper bag + iron to remove glue. ETA: I see XXXer beat me to it.
    Yeah i've seen these both. Parchment paper + iron I find keeps the water trapped, so it didn't really help... and brown paper bag to soak up the glue is just a pain in the ass. I'm with XXXer, heat gun + putty knife or something along those lines for me.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    . . . hot wax skins. * * * Anybody tired this?
    Yes, for late spring/summer touring season.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalisto View Post
    . . . brown paper bag to soak up the glue is just a pain in the ass. I'm with XXXer, heat gun + putty knife or something along those lines for me.
    Agree on those points. I thought you were conflating use of parchment paper and brown paper.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalisto View Post
    Parchment paper + iron I find keeps the water trapped
    But this I don't get. Water? Huh? Parchment paper + iron is used to refresh (smooth out) old glue or to iron in reglue. If you're doing that with wet skins, you're doing it wrong.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post

    But this I don't get. Water? Huh? Parchment paper + iron is used to refresh (smooth out) old glue or to iron in reglue. If you're doing that with wet skins, you're doing it wrong.
    One of the theories (I think it goes back to original Ascension/Climbing skins direct guys, might be wrong) behind glue going bad, balling up, sticking to bases is that it's from water molecules becoming trapped in or combined with the glue. Ironing is meant to heat things up enough to drive out the water from the glue. That's part of the "refresh" that you get from ironing, and direct iron contact works better than a parchment intermediary for that purpose.

    edit, found it : Rick Liu quoted here
    he knows his glue.
    I do recommend keeping the release paper that comes with your skins for future use in reglueing.

    Also, I recommend trying to reactivate your glue before resorting to a complete reglue.

    There are two ways that glue goes bad. One comes from constant sticking and unsticking with water in the interface. This entrains water into the glue and the glue gets too soft and gooey. It then leaves glue on the bottom of the skis.

    The other way the glue goes bad is that the surface loses its tackiness (the opposite of the above problem).

    Both problems can be treated the same way. The glue surface should be re-melted with an iron. In the first case, the remelting drives the water out of the glue, and allows the glue molecules to resume their original shape (and tack).

    In the second case, the melting of the glue brings fresh glue to the surface and drives contaminants into the glue thus renewing the tackiness.

    The technique is to just let the hot iron "glide" over the glue surface. Be careful not to push the molten glue. Just let the iron slide as the glue melts and leaves a "wet look" on the glue surface. Let the glue cool completely before resticking them. It takes a lot longer for it to really cool than you would think by just feeling the temperature of the skins.

    Be sure to clean your iron immediately with citrus solvent, since the glue becomes impossible to remove if it becomes "cooked on".

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    .
    But this I don't get. Water? Huh? Parchment paper + iron is used to refresh (smooth out) old glue or to iron in reglue. If you're doing that with wet skins, you're doing it wrong.
    when you put a hot iron on glue that is loaded with water and leaving residual on the bases you might actualy hear the water content in the glue sputter, i've heard this sputtering even thru/with parchment but Kalisto is figuring the paper gets in the way of the water being driven out of the glue ...not sure

    heating the glue might stop the glue migration to bases (which happens even to a waxed ski) but really ... it is probably getting to be time to reglue

    that nikwax product works awesume, i think its some kind of DWR, the first time i used it I applied to wet skins that were collecting such huge glops of snow that my ski tips were 4 " off the snow, I never got any more glop that night or that season

    so now i just apply it at home once or twice a year and I never get glopping, I still carry the purple wax just incase but I never need it
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #17
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    Hmmmmm. Okay. I let my skins thoroughly dry before I get out the iron. I've been brazing bicycle frames and waxing skis for 40 years, so know the sputter. Never heard it when using an iron to refresh skin glue.

    DWR works. Last spring I sprayed some 303 Fabric Guard fluoro-based DWR and it worked better than wax. Thanks for the reminder.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalisto View Post
    Yeah i've seen these both. Parchment paper + iron I find keeps the water trapped, so it didn't really help... and brown paper bag to soak up the glue is just a pain in the ass. I'm with XXXer, heat gun + putty knife or something along those lines for me.
    I have never been impressed by the amount of dirt which is supposed to stick to the paper bag. I feel the purpose of the bag is to keep your waxing iron or wife's good iron from getting sticky while putting heat into the glue. Then peel the paper and hit the glue side with a putty knife

  19. #19
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    Using the original skin backing is also good but it only lasts so long before ripping

    I read somewhere you can use freezer wrap instead of parchment paper which would be cheaper
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Using the original skin backing is also good but it only lasts so long before ripping

    I read somewhere you can use freezer wrap instead of parchment paper which would be cheaper

    Just for yucks I had to try the freezer wrap so I did a small section of some old skinny ski skins AND

    the shinny coating comes off onto the glue so I suspect its wax or SFT in any case ... don't do it!

    So its either Parchment or the original skin backing
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  21. #21
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    I had a similar experience with La Sportiva skins (also made by Pamoca, so I'm guessing same glue), though it wasn't quite as bad as what you've described. I tried many of the above-mentioned fixes, but the same thing happened again. A full strip (paper bag and iron method), then gluing with BD Gold fixed them right up, though it took a while and made a fairly big mess. I'm inclined to say the Pamoca glue just ain't that good.

  22. #22
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    And to those wondering about the base wax... my issues occurred the day after I'd waxed, so don't think that would have helped much. Citrus cleaner was the only thing that actually removed the glue from my bases.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrkbrnblm View Post
    I had a similar experience with La Sportiva skins (also made by Pamoca, so I'm guessing same glue), though it wasn't quite as bad as what you've described. I tried many of the above-mentioned fixes, but the same thing happened again. A full strip (paper bag and iron method), then gluing with BD Gold fixed them right up, though it took a while and made a fairly big mess. I'm inclined to say the Pamoca glue just ain't that good.
    I got 3 brands of skins, IME they all fuck up, its cheap n easy to reglue, how much of a fucking mess one creates in the rejuvinate/reglue process depends entirely on how well one preps to do the job
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrkbrnblm View Post
    . my issues occurred the day after I'd waxed, so don't think that would have helped much. Citrus cleaner was the only thing that actually removed the glue from my bases.
    For years there were rumors that a fluoro wax would screw up the glue. Never did any science to verify, just quit using it. Brakleen is magic for removing glue once it starts rotting. Hot enough to strip the glue and leave the wax. Doesn't take but a small amount on a paper towel. Most of the time it starts with a small spot, I won't re-glue until end of season. Brakleen is easy, re-glue takes more time. Re-glue fixes things, but I don't get to it until pissed off overcomes lazy.

    I have to agree with XXX-er, they all go bad after a while, usually in the hundred to two hundred day range. I did have one Pomoca go bad from the start, and only a small portion of it. The other skin is just fine. Den

  25. #25
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    I had a pair of the old Ascension purple skins fail on their first usage. I applied them at home and drove to the ski resort for a full moon skin. When I pulled them at the top, 50% of the glue ripped ofmand stuck the my skis. Circa 1993

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