Moment Bibby Tour Review

[rod9301]

Seconded! This is a topic I've been pondering a lot lately as well. Specifically weights of powder touring skis, and the trade-off of going lighter at around 1800 grams for easier uphill climbing vs going heavier at around 2000 grams for better downhill performance. Can certain 1800 gram skis that have a strong flex still perform well? Or is there no way to get a lighter ski to perform like a heavier 2000 gram ski?

Further related conversation, for folks on the larger end of the size spectrum (I'm 6ft 185lbs, and from what I gather is seems average is closer to around 5' 9" 160lbs), is a 2000 gram ski really "too heavy" for uphill touring assuming one has proper touring bindings and boots. And conversely, is that 1800 gram ski going to potentially be overpowered on the way down. In reality, the powder touring ski is bigger dimensions, and should theoretically be heavier.

There has been some chatter in the Praxis threads regarding getting the GPO for touring in a heavier (but still relatively light) MAP cor instead of a UL build (super light), accepting the increase in weight because the downhill performance is that much better. For instance, Keith made me a set of GPO 187cm UL veneer 3+ flex at 1820-1850 grams per ski. They seem like an amazing build and havent skied them yet, but i posed the above MAP vs UL question to him and he is convince that the UL performs great. Right now considering other options in the same dimensions, like the Bibby Tour, that might be a little heavier 1900-2000 grams, but still lightweight enough as a dedicated powder touring ski.

The katanas are light and they perform better than most skis, even in bad snow, crust, wind affected, whatever.

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[Reformed]

What we look to achieve across the entire tour collection at Moment is to make the ski go up hill a little easier and not compromise too much on the downhill.

There are a lot of rad skis out there and most use a lot of the same materials. Just like the basic ingredients for baking a cookie are pretty much the same, its all about the right ratios of ingredients, mixing and cook time which can make a good cookie or a great cookie.

I agree with your approach and like the cookie analogy. Along the same lines, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out a skinnier Bibby for touring a few years ago (there's a thread somewhere). I love how my Bibby skis, but I don't need that much width all the time in the backcountry (more skin to push, harder to put on edge in firm steeps, crampons are bigger etc). I ended up on the Deathwish, as I thought the PBJ would give up too much float. The DW has been pretty awesome all around, but isn't quite a skinny Bibby. It has also taught me that longer, centre-ish mounted twins are not always the ideal backcountry ski for my purposes (steep kick turns, long tails for A-frame carrying, tails on running boards of sleds, sticking tails into the snow etc). This leaves me wondering if you have plans to re-explore a touring version of the Gov. I know the Tallac was sorta that, but it never seemed to really catch on. Now the Gov seems to be gone as well. Any thoughts of making a -10 mm Bibby tour with a flatter (not just notched) tail? This is the type of cookie a lot of people might be interested in!

[jacob_dbu]

I feel like the main issue with the tallacs and governors was that there wasn't enough early taper. You could just fling yourself over the handlebars if you weren't careful. I liked everything else about my governors though.

[sruffian]

I agree with your approach and like the cookie analogy. Along the same lines, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out a skinnier Bibby for touring a few years ago (there's a thread somewhere). I love how my Bibby skis, but I don't need that much width all the time in the backcountry (more skin to push, harder to put on edge in firm steeps, crampons are bigger etc). I ended up on the Deathwish, as I thought the PBJ would give up too much float. The DW has been pretty awesome all around, but isn't quite a skinny Bibby. It has also taught me that longer, centre-ish mounted twins are not always the ideal backcountry ski for my purposes (steep kick turns, long tails for A-frame carrying, tails on running boards of sleds, sticking tails into the snow etc). This leaves me wondering if you have plans to re-explore a touring version of the Gov. I know the Tallac was sorta that, but it never seemed to really catch on. Now the Gov seems to be gone as well. Any thoughts of making a -10 mm Bibby tour with a flatter (not just notched) tail? This is the type of cookie a lot of people might be interested in!

Including this year, moment has had 4 different 106ish touring skis over three years. Two with rocker, camber, and flat tails, the triple camber underworld and now the meridian.

I bought last year's tallac (the belafonte version), and really enjoy it for skiing fast in spring conditions. I also enjoy it on steeps, as it grips like a belafonte but has lower swing weight, and you can whip it around in icy stuff / jump turn terrain. Great stability for the weight. Totally different ride than the first tallac, which I rode and didn't like for the same reasons thejongiest described, plus general chatteryishness. After demo'ing last year's tallac, and hearing luke talk about it on blister, I was surprised they called it the tallac again, though based on that not surprised they didn't try to promote it. The first one kinda sucked.

ps if you like the belafonte, last year's tallac is cheap on skiburger right now

The underworld is a unique ski - really like a deathwish tour, but it's so light and quick that I've never felt like it's an ultra dependable ski. Probably a great spring touring ski for most people, but demo'ing it I found a speed limit a tad too easily.

Now there's the meridian tour. I think this is as close as you're gonna get to a skinnier bibby any time soon, as it should be spin/slarvable and more stable at speed than the underworld. I only got on last year's meridian for a single day, but it did WELL when laid over for a full-reverse ski. Was really impressed. Gonna be a different feel than a bibby, for sure, but anything under 110 is going to (to me atleast)

[Melee]

I agree with your approach and like the cookie analogy. Along the same lines, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out a skinnier Bibby for touring a few years ago (there's a thread somewhere). I love how my Bibby skis, but I don't need that much width all the time in the backcountry (more skin to push, harder to put on edge in firm steeps, crampons are bigger etc). I ended up on the Deathwish, as I thought the PBJ would give up too much float. The DW has been pretty awesome all around, but isn't quite a skinny Bibby. It has also taught me that longer, centre-ish mounted twins are not always the ideal backcountry ski for my purposes (steep kick turns, long tails for A-frame carrying, tails on running boards of sleds, sticking tails into the snow etc). This leaves me wondering if you have plans to re-explore a touring version of the Gov. I know the Tallac was sorta that, but it never seemed to really catch on. Now the Gov seems to be gone as well. Any thoughts of making a -10 mm Bibby tour with a flatter (not just notched) tail? This is the type of cookie a lot of people might be interested in!

The Governor will be making a return to our site in the next month or so. It didn't need to be in the standard line up for retailers and casual website shoppers. It will be lower on the page in our factory direct Reserve Collection with a couple of other specialty releases. Just finishing up the new full cap kid skis and Deathwish Tour 187s because our resupply of Paulownia for our cores was delayed at the lumber mill.

Is there even a ski on the market that has a super traditional mount point like that, flat tail and 116+ underfoot?

I feel like the main issue with the tallacs and governors was that there wasn't enough early taper. You could just fling yourself over the handlebars if you weren't careful. I liked everything else about my governors though.

Wasn't enough early taper? Interesting thought, more taper would make the tip less effective. I thought there was already a bit too much on there. It had a super traditional mount point and a flat tail. Not many skis out there have a 116+ waist ski anymore. It was typically too much ski for people to handle.

Including this year, moment has had 4 different 106ish touring skis over three years. Two with rocker, camber, and flat tails, the triple camber underworld and now the meridian.

I bought last year's tallac (the belafonte version), and really enjoy it for skiing fast in spring conditions. I also enjoy it on steeps, as it grips like a belafonte but has lower swing weight, and you can whip it around in icy stuff / jump turn terrain. Great stability for the weight. Totally different ride than the first tallac, which I rode and didn't like for the same reasons thejongiest described, plus general chatteryishness. After demo'ing last year's tallac, and hearing luke talk about it on blister, I was surprised they called it the tallac again, though based on that not surprised they didn't try to promote it. The first one kinda sucked.

ps if you like the belafonte, last year's tallac is cheap on skiburger right now

The underworld is a unique ski - really like a deathwish tour, but it's so light and quick that I've never felt like it's an ultra dependable ski. Probably a great spring touring ski for most people, but demo'ing it I found a speed limit a tad too easily.

Now there's the meridian tour. I think this is as close as you're gonna get to a skinnier bibby any time soon, as it should be spin/slarvable and more stable at speed than the underworld. I only got on last year's meridian for a single day, but it did WELL when laid over for a full-reverse ski. Was really impressed. Gonna be a different feel than a bibby, for sure, but anything under 110 is going to (to me atleast)

I agree. I didnt like the first Tallac too much, last years (the Belafonte build, is rad) It unfortunately didn't catch on. We do have a new proto of this that we did a lot of testing on last year with some awesome feedback so we may be doing a mid-season release of it this season.

[sruffian]

I agree. I didnt like the first Tallac too much, last years (the Belafonte build, is rad) It unfortunately didn't catch on. We do have a new proto of this that we did a lot of testing on last year with some awesome feedback so we may be doing a mid-season release of it this season.

Sounds like I should've held out to avoid last year's topsheet. Ha. Nah I really enjoyed the belafonte build for spring skiing.

Honestly, after the general panning of the first tallac and general obscurity of last year's, I hope you guys re-name the thing. I think it would be the Tahoe tour in this year's nomenclature? Got a ring to it.

[lemonhead]

I'm super stoked for my Meridan Tour's to arrive. I went with them over the Bibby tour just to try something else as I have toured and skied on the standard Bibby for years. I'm thinking except for the deepest of days it should be great and maybe more fun/playful on the low angle loving type of tours that take place on high risk days. I always have the most fun on Bibby when going fast and jumping off things.

@Melee I'm curious if you could compare the Meridan 117 vs the Bibby Pro? I'll be looking to replace my extra loved Bibby's for the deep days soon. The last full rocker sticks I skied were the 132 underfoot version of the K2 Hellbent (completely different type of ski) Super soft, fun in untracked, easy to land, amusing on groomers, and terrible everywhere else.

[waxoff]

Not that the previously mentioned thoughts are bad ideas, but for an interesting size (just over 100 mm waist) and shape (moustache rocker) mini Bibby touring version, why not base a fun backside touring rig on a lightened PB&J?

[bobsdesk]

I would absolutely love to hear Luke's comments (forgot his handle) about 4frnt listing every ski in the lineup at $499.99.

I assume they've bailed on traditional margins for brick and mortar in favor of a margin structure that is more consumer focused (read: cheaper MAP + no need to give a retailer +30% anymore) = price drop from $749.99 to $499.99 for EVERY ski in the 4frnt line-up.

I'm a long-time Moment skier (Belafonte, Bibby Pro, Governor, and Blister Pro) and would love to move over to the Bibby Tour or Deathwish Tour, but my assumption is that a $499 Hoji, Raven, Devastator, etc from 4frnt is exactly the same quality that is was 1 year ago priced at $749.99. I don't love 4frnt's line-up, but there are some good skis there.

SO...with the caveat that I realize the 4frnt and Moment line-ups are COMPLETELY different, and the assumption that I'm buying now (not when everything in 30% off in 5 months).............

Should I pay a $249.99 for those differences in specs/shapes/camber/etc???

[SupreChicken]

Fair question. Depends on how picky you are. If the lineups were the same, I'd say save the $$. But 4frnt doesn't really make anything like a bibby. Neither does moment really make anything like a renegade. Don't buy the ski you don't want just because it's cheaper. That's a fools errand.

I wish the underworld/deathwish tour at 106mm underfoot had bibby/pbj style mustache camber rather than the current dirty mustache/compound camber.

Am I the only one? Melee? How easy/difficult would it be to make that tweak? Or how many skiers would you need interested/committed?

[jdadour]

Fair question. Depends on how picky you are. If the lineups were the same, I'd say save the $$. But 4frnt doesn't really make anything like a bibby. Neither does moment really make anything like a renegade. Don't buy the ski you don't want just because it's cheaper. That's a fools errand.

I wish the underworld/deathwish tour at 106mm underfoot had bibby/pbj style mustache camber rather than the current dirty mustache/compound camber.

Am I the only one? Melee? How easy/difficult would it be to make that tweak? Or how many skiers would you need interested/committed?

I too am trying to figure out how 4FRNT can sell for that much cheaper now. Maybe its just a temporary marketing tactic with J Lev as the owner to get more skis out there? But I generally agree with SupreChicken, their skis are quite different than Moment, so its decision based more on what kind of ski you want than the price.

In the same discussion of powder touring skis, the new Hoji has caught my eye because in 187cm its 1950 grams. Not sure it suits my style though, because I prefer skiing the bibby.

The underworld is my DD touring ski and I really like it. Very composed an intuitive. Though i have thought what the point of having triple camber on a touring ski is when you arent ecountering hardpack conditions in the backcountry very often.

Over the years I have developed the theory that a great powder touring ski would be taking your normal powder ski (Bibby) and make all the dimensions and length slightly smaller to save weight; and make it easier for touring (kick turns and maneuvarabilty uphill). Of course also use a lighter core/layup, but then with the smaller dimensions and length you dont have to compromise too much on the weight of the core/layup by going too light to negatively effect the dowhill.

Bibby 187cm and take off about 2-4mm all around, you end up with around 114mm waist.

[bobsdesk]

I wish the underworld/deathwish tour at 106mm underfoot had bibby/pbj style mustache camber rather than the current dirty mustache/compound camber.

I have asked for this....FOR YEARS

[lemonhead]

It's interesting as I was also not interested in the Underworld/Deathwish tour because I think that many of the advantages of the triple camber are realized in conditions that are not experienced in the bulk of my touring (Utah). This is coming from someone who's DD and favorite ski in the world is the Deathwish. I have been touring on the Bibby's for years and thinking was why do I need camber underfoot for a touring ski, and wanted an excuse to buy the Meridan tour. I'm wondering if there was a Bibby tour at 107 or Meridan where I would have landed...if I didn't end up buying both.

[thudder]

Over the years I have developed the theory that a great powder touring ski would be taking your normal powder ski (Bibby) and make all the dimensions and length slightly smaller to save weight; and make it easier for touring (kick turns and maneuvarabilty uphill). Of course also use a lighter core/layup, but then with the smaller dimensions and length you dont have to compromise too much on the weight of the core/layup by going too light to negatively effect the dowhill.

Bibby 187cm and take off about 2-4mm all around, you end up with around 114mm waist.

This is pretty much a 184cm Bibby tour, right? It's a little shorter than what you're describe, but otherwise identical.

I agree with the overall thinking, though. The 184 Bibby Tour is my fat touring ski and the 190 Bibby Pro is my in-bounds deep day ski.

[thudder]

I have asked for this....FOR YEARS

+1, would love this. PB&J is my DD in-bounds. Wanted something closer to 105-107mm for DD touring ski and opted against the Underworld. The times I demoed the Deathwish at a resort made me think triple camber is nice to make a fatter ski a more versatile quiver of one, but unnecessary if I could multiple skis at different widths.

This is kind of old-man-yells-at-cloud territory, but I loved the Moment Rubys, and still have a pair as rock skis. Wouldn't mind seeing a re-release of those.

[bobsdesk]

I think it's a challenge for ski brands to figure out the balance of mid-winter pow ski for touring and spring ski for touring. Especially when you consider how different our needs are based on location. Tahoe touring skis might be entirely different than Wyoming touring skis. How is a ski company going to balance 1,000 minute changes to a ski from 12 talking heads on an internet forum?

IMO:

Bibby: very good inbounds, very good vacation ski, a little wide a little heavy for touring.

Bibby Tour: needs 187cm length, needs a tip taper more like the 15/16 Governor + a little bit longer radius. Weight can stay the same as the 17/18 option.

[Dkla52]

Telelebowski, as one of the biggest fan of the Bibby pro I salute you and your review. Your review itself has autoerotic asphyxiation element in it. Great job.. I just got the Tour and while I'm looking at the skis I'm wondering how they tour going up given the amount of camber underfoot. These skis are a beauty!

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