Honda Element replacement suggestions

**mcski** · 02-09-2017, 12:00 PM

If you do throw caution out the window and go xc70, pls do it like this

**Toddball** · 02-09-2017, 12:10 PM

Speaking again towards the "04 XC70s have transmission issues and other problems"...

I was less than a mile away from Stevens Pass yesterday afternoon (heading up for nightskiing) when I got the Check Engine light and a "Transmission Service Required" message. Last time this happened was in downtown metropolitan Squamish, BC, and it was fine for the rest of the night but lost gauges/power/ABS on the highway south to Van the next morning. This turned out to be a software issue and was cheap to fix. The towing would not have been cheap if we didn't have AAA.

I don't know what the issue is this time, and we were able to make it back to Seattle in the middle of the night (avy closed the pass westbound until 11:something). But I guess the bottom line is: buy the 06 or 07, not the 04.

**burrito** · 02-09-2017, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by mcski

If you do throw caution out the window and go xc70, pls do it like this

I want to go to there. XC70 is actually where I'm leaning at the moment. Gonna try to test drive one this weekend. They seem to be out of Volvo's line for 2017, though. There's a V60 XC and a V90 XC, but the 70 is gone. Anyone know the story behind this?

**ulty_guy** · 02-09-2017, 03:07 PM

I've got a 2008 xc70, great snow car. No problems, expensive maintenance but it runs great. You can prob still find a 2016 xc70 new somewhere for a good deal, they've replaced it with the v90 cross country.

Ps don't get a pre 2007 xc70, as mentioned above much more problematic

**mcski** · 02-09-2017, 06:12 PM

I don't think i could get my wife to go for it because she likes fancy name badges, but I had the idea a while back that a highlander would be a good replacement for the xc70. Tons of room inside, decent clearance, pretty good Milage and one of my neighbors has added some decent suspension and wheels. Whaddya think of dat opshun?

**bodywhomper** · 02-09-2017, 07:55 PM

Two car oriented friends chose the new pilot over the comparable highlander. Price, more interior space, similar enough awd system, and better mpg, were their arguments for their choice.

That Volvo looks ridiculous. Can't stand low profile tire for an apparent overland-type vehicle.

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 02-09-2017, 08:36 PM

The 2001-2007 XC70's are built on a Volvo designed platform that is still used in larger Fords today. 2008+ XC70's are built on the new Ford Mondeo platform, which most Volvos are built on. 2001-2002 XC70's had a flawed transmission. 2004-2007 are much more solid, but 2006-2007 have an updated Haldex which is said to be better in slippery conditions.

**LightRanger** · 02-09-2017, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Some RAV4s had run flats. Don't know if it's any of the current generation, but on the last generation, all the ones without a rear door mounted spare had run flats.

That's what I thought I had remembered. On the company site it says the 2017 has a donut spare. Not sure what year theirs is. Maybe 15 or 16. I know it had like 20k on it. He could have easily been mistaken. (He's gotten noticeably more absentminded in the last 5-7 years...

)

**burrito** · 02-11-2017, 11:12 PM

That thing is sick @puregravity

Here's where my head is after driving a 2012 Outback 3.6, a 2014 Audi Allroad, and a 2015 Volvo XC70 today:

- The Outback 3.6 was just as I expected, nothing more or less. It's tough to get your hands on a newer model year with decent mileage, though, and if I'm already paying the sizable upcharge for the 3.6, I'd like it to be relatively fresh. This is probably the fallback.

- The Audi Allroad was awesome, but I'm worried about repair costs. Edmunds has the cost of "Repairs," which they separate from "Maintenance," at about double that of all the other cars I'm looking at (including the Volvos.) That says to me things will 1. break a lot & 2. cost a lot to fix when they do break. It's a killer car, but I'm afraid of putting myself behind the eight ball.

- The Volvo XC70 felt great to drive -- maybe even better than the Audi. That particular one had a couple deal-breakers (the foremost of which being that it needed new front tires, WTF), but I really liked it. I was also surprised by the cargo space of the V60 Cross Country, which I had assumed would be too small. It had about as much space as the Outback. Either of those, the XC70 or the V60 CC, are where I'm leaning. There's a solid Volvo mechanic here is Santa Cruz, and the same Edmunds cost of ownership breakdown that has worried about the Audi has me encouraged about the Volvos.

Thoughts?

**whyturn** · 02-12-2017, 05:19 AM

Everything is better with a V8! Classic. The mods you find on Tgr.

**mcski** · 02-12-2017, 10:22 AM

Beware that XC needing new fronts only. Possible death of awd is making wear unevenly or they cheaped out and only replaced two (but in rear? Wtf) which is bad for awd transmissions. I'd skip that particular one for sure

**burrito** · 02-12-2017, 11:14 AM

I was really surprised they even had the car on the lot in that condition, @mcski, hence the "WTF." Front tires needed to be replaced. Rear tires were worn about 50%. Star crack in the windshield. Rear cargo liner was pretty beat up. There was a solid $1k-$2k that thing needed.

The funny thing is I loved how it drove, and the salespeople were nice, informed, helpful with my bevy of questions, and not pushy at all. It was pretty refreshing after dealing with a sleazy salesman at the Subaru dealer (caught him in a couple of outright lies) and a relatively disinterested one at Audi (who pretty much just sat in the car only offering info when I asked specific questions.)

**Fenris** · 02-12-2017, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by burrito

Any opinions out there on Volvo or Audi AWD wagons?

My family had 3 XC70s and v70 XCs at one point. Now we have none.

We probably plowed 2x the purchase price of one of the cars into it in just 2 years to try to keep it running.

Now I'm in an 09 Forester. At 6'4" I can sleep happily in back if I can fold down a front seat or position my head on the center console. It came with a mat in the back, and I believe they made mats that will cover the folded down seats.

**burrito** · 02-12-2017, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Fenris

My family had 3 XC70s and v70 XCs at one point. Now we have none.

Well that's a bummer to hear. What model years did you have?

**Fenris** · 02-12-2017, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by burrito

Well that's a bummer to hear. What model years did you have?

Pretty sure the v70XC was a 99.

Not sure about the others, but I'm pretty sure one of the XC70s was a Volvo Ocean Race edition which would narrow down the years some.

**Aldo** · 02-14-2017, 05:45 PM

bracing at 200k? quitter, I have a customer with an 03 element he's about to turn 500k. thing is solid. constantly amazes me how its held up. sure he has routine repairs, but nothing out of the ordinary, weve been servicing it since 120k I want to say?

**burrito** · 02-14-2017, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Aldo

bracing at 200k? quitter, I have a customer with an 03 element he's about to turn 500k. thing is solid. constantly amazes me how its held up. sure he has routine repairs, but nothing out of the ordinary, weve been servicing it since 120k I want to say?

I'm happy to keep that thing forever, but I'm not going to risk it if it's potentially life-threatening. I had to rebuild the front end a couple of years ago, for example, (boots, tie rod ends, etc.) The $2k that took was worth it then, but if the same size of repair came up today it wouldn't be.

**bodywhomper** · 02-14-2017, 06:35 PM

$2k is a lot cheaper than a new SUV....

**burrito** · 02-14-2017, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by bodywhomper

$2k is a lot cheaper than a new SUV....

Being afraid that your front end is going to explode or that you'll be stranded in the backcountry because you battery decided to drain itself wears on you. It's been acting oddly -- a new knocking feeling here, a new flicker of the electrical system there -- and peace of mind is looking more and more valuable.

**bodywhomper** · 02-14-2017, 09:03 PM

It's hard to debate against peace of mind.... I understand and have been there myself.

**Aldo** · 02-16-2017, 06:43 PM

I totally get it. But I still am floored by the way this customers example keeps coming round the horn....

**auvgeek** · 02-16-2017, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by johnnyg82

if you don't want a manual, find one with the 3.6 H6, it's got a better AWD system than the 4 cylinders. The 4 cylinders have a fwd bias, which is similar to the Honda system. the 6 cylinder ones have a little different center diff. The manual ones have a different AWD system as well.

This is interesting, and the first I've read about it. Is it true for the Gen 5 (2015+) Outbacks, as well?

**Sirshredalot** · 02-16-2017, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

This is interesting, and the first I've read about it. Is it true for the Gen 5 (2015+) Outbacks, as well?

My understanding is that the manuals had less fwd bias than the autos in earlier generations. No more manuals on the 2015+, but I actually liked the loaner from the dealer (with cvt) better than my 6mt 2012 when I had it for a weekend. I don't know if I would've liked it better than my 3 pedal whip if I had been rallying it in sand or hub-deep snow, but it was a nice car and felt planted.

**burrito** · 02-17-2017, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by puregravity

The new Mitsubishi SUVish also looks quite good.
Not cheap though and just hit the market.

Mitsubishi, across the board, has been at or near the bottom of every quality and reliability rating I've seen for a dozen years. I honestly didn't even think they were still selling new cars in the US.

**johnnyg82** · 02-17-2017, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

This is interesting, and the first I've read about it. Is it true for the Gen 5 (2015+) Outbacks, as well?

Manual cars have a 50/50 Front/rear split all the time.
The 4 cylinder cars have a 60/40 f/r torque split.
The 6 cylinder cars can have 45/55 f/r normally, but can trasnfer to a 50/50 as needed.

In the last few years, when even the 6's have CVT's, I'm not sure what the torque split is anymore.

http://www.subaru-global.com/technol...train_awd.html