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Thread: Uphill Travel Help
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02-14-2017, 03:41 PM #101
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02-14-2017, 03:53 PM #102
RE: steep versus low angle skin track you are both wrong
Skin tracks can definitely be too steep and mean sliding backwards for the subsequent skiers, leg burning craziness that exhausts you after a few hundred vf.
But they can also be way too flat and zig zag endlessly, unnecessarily doubling or tripling the mileage and adding strenuous kick turns every zig. Long flat tracks kill me just as easily as too steep. I HATE a ski track that traverses back and forth through moderately steep terrain where an elegant S up and around will get you there without extra distance OR unnecessary steepness.
The bottom line IMO is to always strive to find the middle ground in setting a track unless the terrain forces you to do one or another.
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02-14-2017, 03:53 PM #103
Are your skins slipping back (even slightly), losing some energy with each stride? If so you might do yourself a favor and lessen the angle. If they are holding, and you are not struggling to earn your potential energy, then have at it if steep is your preference. Or choose the middle way. Personally I am more frequently annoyed by tracks that meander too much than ones that are too direct. The opposite may be true in cases when a track punched into powder has iced up overnight.
The spinner/grinder analogy to cycling is a good one.Last edited by B__; 02-14-2017 at 03:55 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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02-14-2017, 05:08 PM #104
He didn't get to ski during the BBI storm, but this was from Sunday. He' manages pretty well when it's deep, actually.
Here's the super mellow skintrack I set that Kedar uses.
Well maybe I'm the faggot America
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda
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02-14-2017, 05:53 PM #105
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02-14-2017, 06:36 PM #106
^^holy Hannah.
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02-14-2017, 06:51 PM #107
It is not necessarily about how fit an individual is, but how efficient they are at a given angle. Sure, a fit person can skin a steep track faster and longer then a fat slob, but that same fit person will get to the top faster and using less energy with the optimal angle. There certainly are times when steep is better , but generally speaking a moderate angle is better then a steep angle over the whole course of the day.
It is about efficiency, not fitness.
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
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02-14-2017, 07:34 PM #108
This. The most efficient angle is pretty well established, sort of like the most efficient cadence for running. There might be a little individual variation, but not a whole lot.
But this doesn't take into account the terrain being navigated, the frequency and difficulty of kick turns required, or whether or not efficiency is more important than expediency on a given day.
In general, however, I'd say that steep skin tracks are whack.
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02-14-2017, 08:11 PM #109
Great post...some great, detailed advice here. Nice!!!
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11-22-2017, 09:59 PM #110Registered User
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Bump to keep track of this.
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11-22-2017, 11:15 PM #111Rod9301
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I'm guilty often of a steep track, but I found that I can maintain my motivation easier if I skin a more mellow angle. Maybe that's related to how less hard I work.
But it seems that I can ship a mellow track for a long way.
Anyway, what's really tiring for me is booting up a couloir in powder.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app
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11-22-2017, 11:42 PM #112
yeah this is an excellent thread. bookmarked and have bought stuff cuz of it.
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11-23-2017, 11:17 AM #113
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11-23-2017, 02:45 PM #114Registered User
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On a slope that is steep enough for you to backslide on the track you can set a shallower track going farther/faster or a steeper track to going slower/shorter but I think you might find it takes the same amount of time
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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11-23-2017, 09:27 PM #115Registered User
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I decided to skin all the way up Lassen this summer. Headed out of the parking lot from the Devestaded area. Long way to snow but started skinning up the bowl
Steeeep. Almost made it too.
Then the skins got in some wet snow and I was caught in the worlds slowest wet slide.
Surface snow only
Lost about 300 feet.
Just wanted to try
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11-23-2017, 10:13 PM #116Registered User
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now that you mention it a couple years ago we were goin up "the hour glass" a local steep feature, my buddy was taking the shortest route boot packing straight up the middle while I was still on skis & crampons off to the lookers right. I was covering more ground, but I remember finding it interesting that even tho he was a very fit dude going straight up and I was covering more ground he wasn't any higher up the feature than I was
when the whole fuckign thing let go ...except for my side
hence my assertion that you can go slower going straight up or you can be faster going on a longer track
but the time spent doing it will be the same?Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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12-16-2017, 06:51 PM #117
This thread went a lot bigger than I thought it would haha. Was looking back at it to refresh for this season.
FYI I took a lot of info and put it to use and dang, made a huge difference. We skied a local peak a few days ago and totally crushed it. Had about a four mile approach to the peak and made it in about 3 hours. For the ruggedness and steady pace we took I am pretty happy with it. Looking forward to a lot more riding this year. If anybody is around Missoula/St Ignatius I’d love to link up for some touring 🤙🏼
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12-16-2017, 07:07 PM #118
^ nice skin
fyi 2,000 vert is usually the length of one run in a typical North America mountain, I expect you would need to do longer trips or multiple runs to get 3k, 4k or more vertical.ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz
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12-16-2017, 09:05 PM #119
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12-17-2017, 06:28 AM #120ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz
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05-13-2018, 09:52 AM #121
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12-13-2018, 01:59 PM #122Registered User
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"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
photos
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12-13-2018, 02:03 PM #123Registered User
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12-13-2018, 02:10 PM #124Registered User
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Sadly, left yesterday morning. I'll ping you next time cuz I'd love to get out.
To continue in the vein of the advice here: eat and drink adequately *beforehand.* It's basically free weight. Leaving the car hungry and dehydrated means you have to carry more food and water, and it's also hard to make up while you're moving. Leaving well-fed and well-hydrated means you don't need to carry as much and makes the day way more fun. For me, it's also hard to make up dehydration and a caloric deficit on the morning of a big day, so I try to hydrate and eat enough the evening before, and continue that the morning of, a big day. Experiment and find what works best for you.
Side note: there's a story in TFTNA where Steve House mentions that alpine climbing beast Marko Prezelj typically eats a huge breakfast and hyperhydrates and then moves all day in the aerobic zone without eating or drinking until dinner. Similarly, Kilian Jornet says in one of his videos that he only needs to bring 3 candy bars (Snickers) for a huge (77 vkm) day. You can only do this if you leave well fed and hydrated, stay in your aerobic zone, and have good fat adaptation so you don't having to eat and convert the glucose to energy. (Fat adaptation is a key product of aerobic training and beyond the purpose of this post.)Last edited by auvgeek; 12-13-2018 at 02:56 PM.
"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
photos
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12-13-2018, 02:41 PM #125
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