Official KSL Bitch AND Bitch about people bitching about KSL thread

[spnce]

Let's ease up on the conspiracy theories. Those wind censors go offline all the time.

I heard Wirth is a freemason.

[emcee]

Maybe they have deprioritized sensor de-icing. Conspiracy theory lite

[mmmm...pow!]

I'm gonna have to disagree with this. When those lifts are running at SB then Alpine would almost always have at least roundhouse. I've never seen a day where roundhouse was closed while KT was open.

Roundhouse might have been running a few of those days, but I know at least a couple times the whole place was shut down while SB was delivering. Literally every one of the dozen or so days I've been to SB have been nasty storm days, and were so fun. Agreed it's pretty odd that KT is spinning while roundhouse is closed. Stranger still that everything else at Alpine along with red dog and Squaw creek were closed.

[smallies]

some unspecified reason

[hercule33]

You are everything that is wrong with the ski industry. That is a totally fucking ridiculous statement.

I am sorry you feel like that but I don't think I am unreasonable. I feel like this year buying a Squaw/Alpine pass is like buying a car that is a lemon with a bad dealer experience.

Just for the record, I only sued once someone in small claims court.

[mcski]

Roundhouse might have been running a few of those days, but I know at least a couple times the whole place was shut down while SB was delivering. Literally every one of the dozen or so days I've been to SB have been nasty storm days, and were so fun. Agreed it's pretty odd that KT is spinning while roundhouse is closed. Stranger still that everything else at Alpine along with red dog and Squaw creek were closed.

Maybe, but I can remember some epic days when upper mtn at squaw was shut down but summit was running. I've been up that lift when winds were howling not that many years ago.

I would expect that some of these closures are due to the accident at squaw and not yet having full access back for use of avy explosives. That would be understandable and beyond KSL control, but the communication w customers is so broken we will never know for sure or believe what they have to say. They've lost most if not all credibility.

[chickenmonkey]

Maybe, but I can remember some epic days when upper mtn at squaw was shut down but summit was running. I've been up that lift when winds were howling not that many years ago.

I would expect that some of these closures are due to the accident at squaw and not yet having full access back for use of avy explosives. That would be understandable and beyond KSL control, but the communication w customers is so broken we will never know for sure or believe what they have to say. They've lost most if not all credibility.

This exactly.

This is bad on me, but after their post on the ops blog and the communications debacle yesterday, we decided to bug out. We just didn't want to experience another day of disappointment then have to drive home with the rest of the Bay Area.

Now if we had confidence in their intent/ability to get mountain open OR really explain the issues with the wind, I'd be at alpine riding wind buff today.

Lack of credibility, leads to loss of consumer confidence, leads to absence.

Again, my bad for not showing up. Their bad for creating the cracks and increasing the friction of doing business with Squaw/Alpine.

[gnarbro365]

I am sorry you feel like that but I don't think I am unreasonable. I feel like this year buying a Squaw/Alpine pass is like buying a car that is a lemon with a bad dealer experience.

Just for the record, I only sued once someone in small claims court.

Suing because you bought a pass at, potentially, the most popular and sought after resorts in the basin and choose to ski on weekends? And because it snowed a bunch and was real windy?

Wow.

[hercule33]

Suing because you bought a pass at, potentially, the most popular and sought after resorts in the basin and choose to ski on weekends? And because it snowed a bunch and was real windy?

Wow.

Really, have you not been following this thread. How about not opening the mountain after the big storms when every other resort had no problems and in addition having wrong information about lift status. This happened both midweek and on the weekends and it happened many times. Hence the lemon comment. Something is always not running...

[stanmarsh]

[old goat]

This is ridiculous. If I had a Squaw/Alpine pass I would demand a refund and if they refused I would take them to small claims court.

We should keep a running log in this thread of all the bullshit that happened at Squaw/Alpine this year from closures to misleading lift status to help those that may want to take legal action.

I am pretty sure everyone who bought a Squaw/Alpine pass this year got a lot less than they expected and they definitely got a lot less than people with competing passes.

Nobody skis at Squaw any more. It's too crowded.

Look, I don't know if you were there when that picture was taken or on any of the other really crowded days, but it's important to remember that when you find the road stop and go, the parking lot full, and the lift lines ridiculously long--you are exactly as much part of the problem as everyone else. Suppose they limit the number of gold and silver passes they sell for next year. You'll be happy that the weekends are less crowded, until you try to buy a pass and they're sold out.
Obviously I'm very unhappy about KSL for a lot of reasons, but sue because you don't think you got full value from your pass--don't be ridiculous. And please don't make me agree with gnarbro again.

[hercule33]

Nobody skis at Squaw any more. It's too crowded.

Look, I don't know if you were there when that picture was taken or on any of the other really crowded days, but it's important to remember that when you find the road stop and go, the parking lot full, and the lift lines ridiculously long--you are exactly as much part of the problem as everyone else. Suppose they limit the number of gold and silver passes they sell for next year. You'll be happy that the weekends are less crowded, until you try to buy a pass and they're sold out.
Obviously I'm very unhappy about KSL for a lot of reasons, but sue because you don't think you got full value from your pass--don't be ridiculous. And please don't make me agree with gnarbro again.

I think people misunderstood me. First, I said to demand a refund. The reason for a refund is this: false advertising. When you buy a pass (especially for a world class resort) you assume you will receive a certain level service. To go back to the car example, when you buy a car you don't expect it to be in the shop the majority of the time but a couple of problems are OK.

So let's talk about the crowds. If Squaw and Alpine were running more lifts then I agree that they aren't to blame. But if you constantly are not running lifts, as Squaw is, then I would argue that you have case. You simply are not getting your money's worth or receiving the level of service you paid for.

I think the important thing to remember is at what point you feel duped. Let's say you bought a pass and Squaw/Alpine never opened but just gave a bunch of excuses. Would you demand a refund or was that just the risk you took when you bought the pass?

[gnarbro365]

And please don't make me agree with gnarbro again.

Haha. Something must be wrong with your statement if old goat and I agree against you.

[spnce]

serious suggestions:

1. publish the wind sensor data used for hold decisions, including thresholds
2. more webcams, more reliable webcams
3. make the ops twitter account into a person, a la coop at kirkwood
4. stop getting into fucking twitter & facebook arguments

[TahoeJ]

Okay, seriously now... look, KSL fucking sucks but it's time to move on. The BC is better right now anyway.

[mandudebro]

serious suggestions:

1. publish the wind sensor data used for hold decisions, including thresholds
2. more webcams, more reliable webcams
3. make the ops twitter account into a person, a la coop at kirkwood
4. stop getting into fucking twitter & facebook arguments

5. Spend cash on mtn ops as if you sold 30-40k season passes and are charging $159 for an adult lift ticket.

[4matic]

Kirkwood twitter only updated twice in a week. No big deal but just sayin. HVConditions is pretty good and they have alert service.

[BGnight]

Okay, seriously now... look, KSL fucking sucks but it's time to move on. The BC is better right now anyway.

QFT
Tomorrow is the last chance to get some pow for at least 4 days and no way I'm risking it waiting for KSL to maaaaaybe open lifts on a storm day (even then it won't be a true pow day with all yesterdays tracks)

[MashedPotatoes]

All you have to do is fart in the direction of Summit Six and they'll put it on wind hold. It's always been that way from what I remember.

That KT line pic is just ridiculous. You could probably skin to the top by the time you loaded the chair.

Kirkwood was more crowded yesterday than I've seen in a while (people were actually in the liftlines this weekend!) but it was still tolerable (sort of).

[gnarbro365]

This may have been mentioned, but just food for thought...

Maybe the ski industry, on the whole, has changed since the "good ol' days at squaw."

It's 2017, and you have people like hercule33 threatening to sue you (KSL) for any little mishap. MAYBE these resorts are responding to trigger happy turds who would sue at the drop of a hat...or a drop off a windy chair? MAYBE resorts across the States are more conservative with the safety of their guests than they used to be? and MAYBE that is due to the fear of litigation and ongoing court battles over ridiculous shit.

Tell me, hercule33, if you got blown off of a chair at squaw in high winds and fell 30 ft to the snow, would you sue them for negligence? For not shutting the lift down because the winds were gnarly? Or would you be super stoked because Ol' Squaw is back and they run their lifts in any weather?

[hercule33]

This may have been mentioned, but just food for thought...

Maybe the ski industry, on the whole, has changed since the "good ol' days at squaw."

It's 2017, and you have people like hercule33 threatening to sue you (KSL) for any little mishap. MAYBE these resorts are responding to trigger happy turds who would sue at the drop of a hat...or a drop off a windy chair? MAYBE resorts across the States are more conservative with the safety of their guests than they used to be? and MAYBE that is due to the fear of litigation and ongoing court battles over ridiculous shit.

Tell me, hercule33, if you got blown off of a chair at squaw in high winds and fell 30 ft to the snow, would you sue them for negligence? For not shutting the lift down because the winds were gnarly? Or would you be super stoked because Ol' Squaw is back and they run their lifts in any weather?

To answer your question, I would not sue Squaw if I fell off a chair during a windy day. When Squaw had an avalanche death in bounds a few years back, I was not threatening to sue. Accidents happen and skiing is dangerous.

I have skied in Europe where off piste is considered backcountry. In France, if you ski off piste and trigger an avalanche that buries skiers on a piste, you are held responsible. If you fall in a crevasse that's unmarked it's on you. Personally, I wish skiing was more like that in the States but now we are getting off topic.

That being said, if a business sells me a turd of a product, I would like to have options. I wish I would never said sue because my point was that if I bought a KSL pass this year I would want a refund because of their sub standard mountain operations. I would always try to work with the company first, as I think everyone should.

[TeleTahoe]

This was the top of hot wheels on Saturday. Am Lift ops kept staff at 7 of the 11 aerial lifts till at least 2 pm.

Edit: this was also during a "calm" period.

The Anemometers froze from ice. I am not sure how many of you guys would snowmobile to the top of a mtn in 90+ mph winds, then hike on an icy slope down to an icy tower to climb up it just to knock the ice off of it.

[BGnight]

I'm no expert but that seems pretty tame^^ The chairs are hardly moving and with people on them they wouldn't at all but w/e.

As for today, I would think KSL was crazy to have any lifts open. The winds at my house in Reno were insane. I can't imagine how bad they'd be on a lift.

[mmmm...pow!]

I'm no expert but that seems pretty tame^^ The chairs are hardly moving and with people on them they wouldn't at all but w/e.

As for today, I would think KSL was crazy to have any lifts open. The winds at my house in Reno were insane. I can't imagine how bad they'd be on a lift.

What are you talking about? 21 lifts scheduled, it's gonna be awesome.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

It was kind of weird to be as excited as I was to see Oly Lady running yesterday.

Not sure what's up with Squaw closing the upper mountain though. Winds were non-existent at the base, and the sensors at 8000 feet don't look so bad. Maybe they (rightly) predicted that everyone would be off the mountain at noon to start boozing up for the Super Bowl? http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/rev/remotedata/sqwhic.php