Official KSL Bitch AND Bitch about people bitching about KSL thread

[TahoeJ]

Seriously who is in charge of the app? That's half the communication problem alone.

[spnce]

i was told that the twitter account is run by the mtn ops dispatcher, and the app is run by somebody else using secondary info.

hence the frequent disconnects

[hercule33]

Screw it, I am going to start documenting these failures for those that may want to ask for a refund.

Feb 3: Bad communications with lifts running. Hot Wheels, Meadow, and Subway ran at 2 P.M. with no tweet (per unofficial Alpine). Roundhouse did not run.

Feb 4: What was open compared with other corresponding reports. (source: Unofficial Alpine)

◾Alpine Meadows: Big Carpet and Small Carpet
◾Squaw Valley: KT-22, Far East, Exhibition
◾Sugar Bowl: All lifts except Crow’s Nest (s0me delayed openings)
◾Kirkwood: All major lifts (some delayed openings)
◾Mount Rose: Limited operations in the morning then opened all lifts except Chuter in afternoon.

[hercule33]

Feb 6: Kirkwood just opened Chair 6 at 11:30. Word from Squaw:

"KT, Funitel, Tram and all upper mountain lifts are closed for the day due to extremely high winds. Red Dog, Squaw Creek, Exhibition and Far East are all on wind hold but still scheduled."

[stanmarsh]

So now you're going to sue them for closing lifts during 116mph wind gusts?



I do agree that a boycott would solve most of the problems.

[gnarbro365]

Screw it, I am going to start documenting these failures.

"Waiter, this steak was horrible...I want a refund!"

"...but, you ate 3/4 of the steak. And you ate all the potatoes and vegetables."

"Yeah, but the steak was undercooked!"

"You asked for it to be cooked rare."

"I demand a refund! You are not meeting my expectations! And the wind is blowing! I'm suing!"

[hercule33]

Tell me, hercule33, if you got blown off of a chair at squaw in high winds and fell 30 ft to the snow, would you sue them for negligence? For not shutting the lift down because the winds were gnarly? Or would you be super stoked because Ol' Squaw is back and they run their lifts in any weather?

I am so glad that I am at work today and not being blown off Chair 6 at Kirkwood. I hope all those people who fall off don't sue Vail for running lifts in the wind.

[hercule33]

"Waiter, this steak was horrible...I want a refund!"

"...but, you ate 3/4 of the steak. And you ate all the potatoes and vegetables."

"Yeah, but the steak was undercooked!"

"You asked for it to be cooked rare."

"I demand a refund! You are not meeting my expectations! And the wind is blowing! I'm suing!"

Really? If you went to a nice steakhouse and ordered your favorite steak medium rare and it was brought to you burnt to a crisp, wouldn't you send it back? A burnt steak is what a Squaw/Alpine pass is this year, in my opinion.

All I am saying that is that I think people are entitled to a refund due to the incompetence of Squaw for the first half of the season. Trust me, if you get a refund now you are not in good shape. You probably spent most of your powder days waiting for lifts to open that never did and what are you going to do for the rest of the season, buy super expensive Vail tickets? By the way, the season is a little over half done according to BA at Open Snow.

[hercule33]

How about instead of attacking me, you guys explain this to me:

Feb 6 12:00 P.M. Running lifts:

Squaw: First Venture, Boon, Murphy, Tucker
Alpine: Big Carpet, Little Carpet

Heavenly: Tram, Canyon, Boulder, Stagecoach, PowderBowl and Gunbarrel
Kirkwood: Timber creek, Cornice, solitude, the Reut.
Sugar Bowl: All lower mountain open.
Northstar: Not included because it is wind protected.

Does that sound right to you guys?

Isn’t KSL trying to get out of towners to come to Tahoe with cheap flights? They really can’t open any more of the mountain for those are staying on the mountain and probably ski blues.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

How about instead of attacking me, you guys explain this to me:

Feb 6 12:00 P.M. Running lifts:

Squaw: First Venture, Boon, Murphy, Tucker
Alpine: Big Carpet, Little Carpet

Heavenly: Tram, Canyon, Boulder, Stagecoach, PowderBowl and Gunbarrel
Kirkwood: Timber creek, Cornice, solitude, the Reut.
Northstar: Not included because it is wind protected.

Does that sound right to you guys?

Isn’t KSL trying to get out of towners to come to Tahoe with cheap flights? They really can’t open any more of the mountain for those are staying on the mountain and probably ski blues.

I'm no friend to KSL, but comparing what's open at Squaw with what's going on at the other end of the lake (where the winds are much lower at the moment) doesn't seem to be an apples-to-apples comparison.

Things were blowing pretty hard on Friday and Saturday at Squaw. I'll give Squaw a pass for not opening lifts that, for the most part, top out on ridgelines. I'm a little confused as to why the upper mountain didn't open on Sunday, as winds were calm on this side of the crest until later in the afternoon. Even so, a little googling shows that wind gusts at the crest were at or above the limit for what a Funitel system can handle (100 km/h).

A wind hold is nothing new. Sunday was a little curious, but today isn't the day I'd pick to rip on KSL for closing things down.

[spnce]

"Sugar Bowl: All lower mountain open." lol the race lift & the kiddie lift

also, rose is fully closed.

today is not the day dude, i had to drive over the summit this morning and it was fucking nuts up there

[Ottime]

Good point on wind conditions on opposite ends of the lake being so different. If it were apples to apples difference, then KW having anything off the ridge open and KT being closed is very shocking. I tend to think of KT as a great storm lift and anything at KW being poor.

I can attest that on Sunday there was no wind issue at KW until the very very top. Basically was protected until you leveled off and my 5 year old would scream aloud until he ducked into Sentinel.

[TahoeJ]

Squaw isn't gonna refund shit. If you want to see change then don't buy a pass next year and encourage your friends to do the same. If they're smart they will disclose how many passes they sold this year and next year announce a hard cap at about 25% less total. Yeah, right.

[hercule33]

I think that people are misunderstanding my point.

Let's take Chair 6 at Kirkwood. Just because Chair 6 opens, doesn't mean that KT should run and vice versa. However, it says a lot about Kirkwood's dedication to open lifts on a stormy Monday. They could have easily put Chair 6 on "wind hold" and everyone would understand (even me).

Now let's take a look at Squaw/Alpine which is only running beginner terrain. Even Sugar Bowl managed to get some intermediate terrain open so this says a lot about their dedication to open lifts.

The story gets even worse for Squaw/Alpine because they are trying to attract skiers from all over country. If you picked your ski week to be at Squaw/Alpine this week and paid to stay on the hill it would be nice if they opened more lifts than just the beginner terrain.

I would not be complaining if this was the only occurrence this season of Squaw not running lifts but this is a pattern of behavior. And yes you can parse every occurrence and try to find an excuse but when you put it all together, it becomes pretty hard to justify. And the list keeps on growing...

[hercule33]

Squaw isn't gonna refund shit. If you want to see change then don't buy a pass next year and encourage your friends to do the same. If they're smart they will disclose how many passes they sold this year and next year announce a hard cap at about 25% less total. Yeah, right.

Already don't have a pass because of KSL, although I really want to buy one because Alpine is my favorite mountain in Tahoe. I have told all my friends, family and random people I met of the BS KSL has caused and to ski elsewhere. I also filled out KSLs surveys as to why I am not coming back as a customer and wrote them a letter with my views and how they can get me back as a customer.

Any other suggestions as to what I should do so that I can get back to skiing my favorite inbounds terrain in Tahoe instead riding in less interesting terrain at Vail Resorts?

[SD16]

I think that people are misunderstanding my point.

Let's take Chair 6 at Kirkwood. Just because Chair 6 opens, doesn't mean that KT should run and vice versa. However, it says a lot about Kirkwood's dedication to open lifts on a stormy Monday. They could have easily put Chair 6 on "wind hold" and everyone would understand (even me).

Now let's take a look at Squaw/Alpine which is only running beginner terrain. Even Sugar Bowl managed to get some intermediate terrain open so this says a lot about their dedication to open lifts.

The story gets even worse for Squaw/Alpine because they are trying to attract skiers from all over country. If you picked your ski week to be at Squaw/Alpine this week and paid to stay on the hill it would be nice if they opened more lifts than just the beginner terrain.

I would not be complaining if this was the only occurrence this season of Squaw not running lifts but this is a pattern of behavior. And yes you can parse every occurrence and try to find an excuse but when you put it all together, it becomes pretty hard to justify. And the list keeps on growing...

It "says a lot" to somebody who doesn't understand much about what it takes to open terrain and lifts

It may not say as much to someone who does

Why would kirkwood or squaw or anyone else WANT to put a lift on wind hold, which means paying lifties, etc to sit around and do nothing?

[hercule33]

Why would kirkwood or squaw or anyone else WANT to put a lift on wind hold, which means paying lifties, etc to sit around and do nothing?

I never said KSL or anyone wanted to put a lift on wind hold. I said that the fact that only beginner terrain opened at both Squaw/Alpine says a lot about their DEDICATION to get terrain open.

Now, I don't know the ins and outs of what it takes to open terrain but I am no dummy either. But I do know that a big part of dedication to getting terrain open is making sure that you have enough resources(people and equipment) to do so.

I don't expect KT22, Granite Summit or Sherwood to be running today but are you saying that it would be impossible for Squaw/Alpine to open any more lifts. No way that Subway and Meadow could be running at Alpine? How about Kangaroo, Roundhouse, Hot Wheels, or Yellow?

Can someone who is an expert on opening the mountain explain to a dummy like me why it was impossible to run those lifts today?

[TahoeJ]

This is not the time to blame KSL. When Northstar closes the backside you know things are fucked. Don't bother trying to document or compare every little thing- you're going to drive yourself crazy. Point is, if you've been skiing Squaw / Alpine for several years or longer the differences in operations are pretty obvious and there's no point in trying to prove it.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

This is not the time to blame KSL. When Northstar closes the backside you know things are fucked. Don't bother trying to document or compare every little thing- you're going to drive yourself crazy. Point is, if you've been skiing Squaw / Alpine for several years or longer the differences in operations are pretty obvious and there's no point in trying to prove it.

Word. Plenty to actually complain about, but not so much when winds are 10-20 at Kirkwood and 50-60 sustained at Squaw. And Northstar actually closing anything (for anything other than lack of snow) is noteworthy.

As to running Subway...when the weather's that bad, I don't know a whole lot of beginner skiers who have a good time. Or maybe my memory is still seared from my four year old screaming his head off on Friday every time the wind-blown graupel got him on the square centimeter of exposed skin on his nose. Not nearly enough gummy bears in the world to make a trip down Champs Elysee fun.

[ToastedPopsicle]

serious suggestions:

2. more webcams, more reliable webcams

This always kind of baffled me, 2 seasons ago they had half decent webcams pointed at a bunch of the real terrain. Now they just have 3-4 of these fancy timelapse / interactive cams that are just pointed at the village / base areas. I don't know if anyone found those old cams useful, but it's strange to me that they have so much great terrain and can't even be arsed to show it off, it costs practically nothing. I guess it doesn't make business sense to show off slopes that are packed / closed?

I have a hard time believing keeping all of the upper mountain summit lifts closed on SUNDAY was due to wind. It was a bit windy at the very top of what was open, but nothing especially bad, and there was hardly any wind felt at all riding any of the lifts. I've seen the entire upper mountain open on days that were worse last season. Even Solitude and Big Blue (was open for a bit) were closed. It's a joke that they claim there's no "money hold" when stuff like this happens on Super Bowl day. I feel bad for all the intermediates who traveled from far away to be stuck in GC and Shirley lines.

[TahoeJ]

The vanishing webcams is one of the conspiracy theories I fully support. That's some bullshit.

[old goat]

This always kind of baffled me, 2 seasons ago they had half decent webcams pointed at a bunch of the real terrain. Now they just have 3-4 of these fancy timelapse / interactive cams that are just pointed at the village / base areas. I don't know if anyone found those old cams useful, but it's strange to me that they have so much great terrain and can't even be arsed to show it off, it costs practically nothing. I guess it doesn't make business sense to show off slopes that are packed / closed?

I have a hard time believing keeping all of the upper mountain summit lifts closed on SUNDAY was due to wind. It was a bit windy at the very top of what was open, but nothing especially bad, and there was hardly any wind felt at all riding any of the lifts. I've seen the entire upper mountain open on days that were worse last season. Even Solitude and Big Blue (was open for a bit) were closed. It's a joke that they claim there's no "money hold" when stuff like this happens on Super Bowl day. I feel bad for all the intermediates who traveled from far away to be stuck in GC and Shirley lines.

I was at Alpine Sunday until about 2--with Summit and Scott, the two most wind sensitive lifts, both running. So why weren't Headwall, Siberia, Granite, and Emigrant running (I'm assuming from your post they weren't.) Could be mountain ops decided Saturday that the winds would be too high on Sunday and didn't staff to run those lifts (ie money hold). Could be that the kind of lift and it's degree of exposure to the wind was the issue. It's not just the wind speed but the angle of the wind to the lift and how protected the lift is by the terrain. And some lifts are designed to run in higher winds than others. (I haven't seen this in years and never on detachable but in the past I've seen singles have to wait for a partner so there was enough weight on the chair.) I don't know the particular answer re Sunday. It does seem to me that Squaw and to a lesser extent Alpine have had more lift closures than in the past, as I've said repeatedly as gnarbro likes to point out, but it's hard to know in a particular case. The most egregious cases are those where lifts aren't running on clear calm days because "it takes a week to get a zone open"--Silvy being the prime example.

As far as the intermediates being stuck in big lines on Shirley and GC--that's where they're always stuck, wind or no wind.

[snoqpass]

Does anyone ever read their season pass agreement ?

[mmmm...pow!]

I never said KSL or anyone wanted to put a lift on wind hold. I said that the fact that only beginner terrain opened at both Squaw/Alpine says a lot about their DEDICATION to get terrain open.

Now, I don't know the ins and outs of what it takes to open terrain but I am no dummy either. But I do know that a big part of dedication to getting terrain open is making sure that you have enough resources(people and equipment) to do so.

I don't expect KT22, Granite Summit or Sherwood to be running today but are you saying that it would be impossible for Squaw/Alpine to open any more lifts. No way that Subway and Meadow could be running at Alpine? How about Kangaroo, Roundhouse, Hot Wheels, or Yellow?

Can someone who is an expert on opening the mountain explain to a dummy like me why it was impossible to run those lifts today?

Not an expert, but one thing to condider - today the avalanche danger is high. If patrol can't do control work, those other lifts are vulnerable to slides from above. Not saying that is the case today, but I have seen many, many days where the mountain was entirely shut down going back at least the fifteen seasons I've been around. That's just the reality of Alpine (and Squaw). Yeah, there's plenty of days that ksl needs to get their shit together, but wind gusts all day well over 100mph for fucks sake. What do you think you were missing out on today?

[hercule33]

This is not the time to blame KSL. When Northstar closes the backside you know things are fucked. Don't bother trying to document or compare every little thing- you're going to drive yourself crazy. Point is, if you've been skiing Squaw / Alpine for several years or longer the differences in operations are pretty obvious and there's no point in trying to prove it.

I agree that today is not the best example of poor KSL operations (they have given us much better examples recently) but I still think they should have ran more lifts at Alpine. OK, enough KSL bitching.

I also want to say that I am blaming KSL management for the issues not the employees who work there.