Official KSL Bitch AND Bitch about people bitching about KSL thread

[mmmm...pow!]

Isn't that largely a factor of USFS land vs private property? (Not sure about this but it was always my assumption)

No. For instance, before Vail bought Breckenridge, the season was typically early Nov. - mid May, longer if conditions allowed (Halloween - Memorial Day one year). Since, the season runs mid Nov. - mid April, so at a minimum 5 weeks less.
Vail is also a fan of speed cops on every groomed run. As shitty as KSL is, not sure Vail would be better, maybe in some ways, but there would be tradeoffs.

[skier666]

Did the patroller incident happen in Silvy?

I've skied Squaw a few days a year for my entire life, had passes once and awhile before KSL, and a few since...

Anyway, during that period we had massive years but we also had a ton of drought years and it has been engraved in my head that Silvy only opens when they have enough snow. On most years, like clockwork, it was usually for like 2 weeks a year until the Spring sun would melt it to death. The last few weeks I was scratching my head knowing how loaded the Fingers and Poulsen Gully were over MLK weekend, and that there's been no announcement. Probably my most fondest memories are the Spring days in May doing the Reverse Traverse, hiking over to Chute 75 and skiing perfect corn down the dirt of the Mountain Run.

As for Kirkwood...almost nothing has been done over there except adding the ticket scanners for your Epic Pass. All the same terrain is open which was surprising...and there's still rumors of the Cirque eventually opening whether guided or not if they put the chair up to Thimble Peak from the backside so patrol can get better access.

[SD16]

I've had a pass since '93. On a year like this year, silvy was open every fucking day that wasn't a storm day and within 2-3 days after storms.

Sure. As I said there are legitimate gripes (that are being amplified louder than before)

There are new realities that people need to learn to deal with (it isn't 1984, Broken Arrow is never going to be open midweek non-holiday anymore and that has been going on since Alex was alive)

And there are the same dumb complaints people have had forever that are being amplified too (not knowing what "scheduled" means, etc)

[SD16]

Can someone explain to me why it is that hard to train people to cut that road? If we can train enough doctors, engineers, Avalanche reporters, backcountry ski guides then why can't we train enough people to cut a road in avalanche terrain? I know it's a gnarly job but so is being an avalanche forecaster and going in the backcountry in extreme avalanche conditions.

Never drove a groomer but...being in avy terrain is only one piece of the puzzle. The real issue is the complexity of the terrain. These guys know every rock, every drift, etc. To use your analogy, would you trust an avalanche forecast from someone who had technical proficiency but no familiarity with the snowpack?

[hercule33]

Never drove a groomer but...being in avy terrain is only one piece of the puzzle. The real issue is the complexity of the terrain. These guys know every rock, every drift, etc. To use your analogy, would you trust an avalanche forecast from someone who had technical proficiency but no familiarity with the snowpack?

Actually that is quite common among backcountry guides. When I was in Europe touring, I met a guide from Mammoth that had American clients. He was there just for the trip. Also most guides who travel and do backcountry don't hire local guides.

[LightRanger]

I don't know what the equivalent would be at Squaw, but Vail does seem determined to put intermediate skiers in over their heads.

Backcountry gate at the top of Granite Chief. I doubt the FS would sign off on it because it would dump people out onto Chickering/Cedars land if they went down too far down the drainage, but that would be the rough equivalent.

It'd be sick too.

[old goat]

Did the patroller incident happen in Silvy?

No. Mainline Pocket.

[stanmarsh]

I doubt the FS would sign off on it because it would dump people out onto Chickering/Cedars land if they went down too far down the drainage

Not to mention the number of people they'd have to pull out of there after going through the gate w/out skins.

That would kick ass though.

[gnarbro365]

I think voting with your wallet, and showing up to meetings where the public is invited are about the only effective measures.

Pretty sure investors/people looking at buying a new condo aren't scrawling through the TGR forums. And if they are, I doubt our concerns will stop them. Think of the views from those condos!

Also, I thought Squaw addressed all you complaining passholders with a statement similar to...

[wolfy]

Not to mention the number of people they'd have to pull out of there after going through the gate w/out skins.

That would kick ass though.

there have been a couple groups in the last few years that couldn't resist the pull of the untouched outside the gate.
Squaw refused to use area equipt. to yard them out of the Diamond Crossing "zone" and they had to foot the bill for helo time for the CHP ship. Welcome to helisking- they were somewhat less than pleased with the bill...

[mattyj]

^^^ not sure where your info comes from, but since charging for rescues and closing boundaries due to the potential for rescues are both sore spots for me:

* People have been winding up in Diamond Crossing (or Cedars, etc) for decades. I'm not aware of any evidence that the KT backcountry gate has led to an increase in out-of-bounds skier rescues

* Getting mechanized equipment into Diamond Crossing is far from trivial. No way would I expect a ski area to try to send employees out there on sleds or a snowcat. Whatever their mountain management issues, Squaw goes out of their way to assist with out-of-bounds skier rescues and saying they "refused to use area equipt" sounds unduly harsh

* CHP does not bill

* SAR does not bill

[gnarbro365]

* SAR does not bill

Not universally true. I know that Douglas County SAR/Sheriff slaps a $500 fine on people who duck Heavenly's ropes and call for assistance.

[Jack Burton]

TODAY'S WORD
SATURDAY, FEB 4, 2017 @ 6:30AM
Heavy wet snow and forecast high winds will cause delays/wind holds for today’s operations.

Way to lower the bar again Squaw,

[TahoeJ]

^^ That would be the case no matter who was running the place. I'm all for hammering KSL but c'mon.

[hercule33]

^^ That would be the case no matter who was running the place. I'm all for hammering KSL but c'mon.

I agree. At least KSL is being honest about the conditions and lift status.

[GrumpyPilot]

Fuck ksl!
Love the mountain and would pay 1500 for a pass if it brought back the soul, opened the mountain in a timely manner and spun more lifts more often, and killed the crowds.

Would love to see pass prices go up also, however they won't as it isn't about skiing anymore, it is about people eating, drinking, shopping and staying in KSL owned condos and bars and stores. Parking sucks but the lifts lines are short, well why is that? People are hanging out spending money, but not skiing.

Like someone pointed out, just wait until Jimmy King retires, that will be interesting.

[GrumpyPilot]

TODAY'S WORD
SATURDAY, FEB 4, 2017 @ 6:30AM
Heavy wet snow and forecast high winds will cause delays/wind holds for today’s operations.

Way to lower the bar again Squaw,

The wind is gusting pretty high at my place, at lake level, so I'm sure the mountain tops are getting smoked. Just because it is a Saturday, doesn't mean the wind doesn't blow.

[xtrmjoe]

Would love to see pass prices go up also, however they won't as it isn't about skiing anymore, it is about people eating, drinking, shopping and staying in KSL owned condos and bars and stores. Parking sucks but the lifts lines are short, well why is that? People are hanging out spending money, but not skiing.

Like someone pointed out, just wait until Jimmy King retires, that will be interesting.

Opps I forgot how important the "out of boot" experiences are to the bottom line because i could not care less about that.

[mattyj]

Not universally true. I know that Douglas County SAR/Sheriff slaps a $500 fine on people who duck Heavenly's ropes and call for assistance.

Fair enough, and speaking universally there are some counties/states that actually do charge for rescue, although I suspect that's not an actual bill for rescue services, but a citation for illegally skiing out of bounds. Call it splitting hairs if you want, but there are a few key differences, including that you could theoretically get cited without needing rescue, it doesn't apply if you legally exit out of a gate or open boundary, it generally requires knowingly crossing the boundary, so you can go in front of a judge and make a case that the boundary line wasn't properly marked, the fine doesn't actually go to the sheriff's office / SAR team, etc.

California has a similar law, although I've rarely seen it applied. If you went snowmobiling in a wilderness area, called for rescue and got a citation, I wouldn't consider that a bill for rescue services either.

[mcski]

Sounds like the "dynamic" conditions of a couple weekends ago. Surprised everything isn't on the "schedule" considering

Squaw has an open gate??? Since when and where? That's news to me, but I haven't been near any boundaries lately.

I agree w a return of high price passes would be great but not gonna happen. File cheap passes under one of the many things I wished for when Alex was alive and now KSL is making me deeply regret.

[mmmm...pow!]

I used to think making passes more expensive would be a good thing but I have reconsidered. All it would do is screw the locals who want to ski midweek. Doubt a few hundred bucks is gonna matter much to anyone in the bay area (listen to all of you clamoring for it). Even at $1600 a pass would pay for itself in five weekends of skiing. And they need to keep the price competitive with what Vail charges. Best solution is obviously to build a ski area and water park in the bay area and send all proceeds to Colorado.

[mcski]

Ya I'm not sure about it either. Certainly back when pass prices were in the 1500 range and tickets were ~$80, it worked out well. Locals got their money worth with lots of days and midweek wasn't such a shit show. Not sure if that genie could go back in the bottle even if KSL made that unrealistic mktg shift. But that change is what transformed crazy busy weekends under Alex to an absolute shitshow under KSL.

[BGnight]

I used to think making passes more expensive would be a good thing but I have reconsidered. All it would do is screw the locals who want to ski midweek. Doubt a few hundred bucks is gonna matter much to anyone in the bay area (listen to all of you clamoring for it). Even at $1600 a pass would pay for itself in five weekends of skiing.

I have no idea but I think more expensive mid week passes could be a good thing (for me not for the resort). Squaw mid week passes used to be more than twice what they are now FIFTEEN years ago. I think a lot of locals buy them strictly because they are affordable. I'd be more than willing to pay $800 for a mid week pass if it guaranteed > 30% less people on mid week storm/pow days. With a $600-$800 price tag for a mid week pass there would be a lot less impulse buying by locals who only use those passes to go out on the good days.

[guermo]

You guys should see today's lines! I've got one run in at 11:20. Ultimate shit show again.

[greatjones]

I'm debating about throwing the skins on to get in the singles line.