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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FormerKnuckleDragger View Post
    Another bone to pick with KSL is that they're short term management looking to sell development rights and get out of the Squaw ownership business. Silverado aside, this makes for unpleasantness that is generally acceptable to KSL, since they don't care about the long-term reputation.

    A long term owner would look at the current weekend parking situation and do what Northstar did - put huge lots at the mouth of Squaw Valley Road (or better yet TC and Truckee) and run resort-funded shuttle buses. KSL sees no short term return on this, and instead promotes condos as a solution to traffic, knowing full well that there's a substantial local customer base that will still (want to) drive in.

    I hate to say it, but I'm almost at the point where being bought by Vail wouldn't be a bad (worse?) thing.
    Actually, squaw bought by Vail would've been a good thing.
    Ksl needs to sell this soon, Vail would've said "we will own squaw for the next 100 years, and we're willing to invest whatever it takes"
    That's the difference between a financial buyer, ksl, and an operating buyer like Vail.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Vail certainly couldn't make things any worse. Both on the mountain and in the village.
    Per some folks at Whistler, Vail is planning on extending the T-bar to the Blackcomb glacier, and might put in a surface lift to access Spanky's. I don't know what the equivalent would be at Squaw, but Vail does seem determined to put intermediate skiers in over their heads.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheK12 View Post
    But what I don't agree with is spreading rumors of why this or why that without any real proof. It is possible to say, "what's going, why is this happening, i'm not happy, what the fuck are you guys doing". But it's yet another thing to take an accusatory stance and say , "i know that you're doing this and you're lying, even though i can't prove it". The latter approach just breeds more hate and contention and makes people defensive.

    Guess it's just a different perspective.
    I agree that people shouldn't spread rumors without any proof or they should question some one's motive with little proof. What rumors are you talking about?

    Is it calling lifts not running a "money hold"? Is it labeling long delays in opening terrain and bad parking management as "incompetent"?

    I actually think that people have been very restrained here despite the lack of information or the vague excuses provided by KSL. Look, if you tell me that a big part of why you can't open Silverado is that you have just two people who can put in the road, I will say you need more than two people to be able to put in the road and that in my opinion is a management staffing mistake.

    If someone here chooses to call lifts not running a "money hold" that is not spreading rumors it's just a label. KSL could call the same thing being "eco friendly." You get my point.

    One area where this community has been very restrained is in the death of the patroller. We have offered condolences for the family and most importantly not speculated about what has happened and who was responsible. KSL has been quick to try to use his death in excuses on why the mountain hasn't opened despite these problems occurring way before his death. Plus I have yet to see the results of the investigation into the incident that says what role, if any, KSL played in the incident. As a potential customer, I want to know the results of the investigation and in my opinion it is horrible for KSL to use the death of the patroller as an excuse until the investigation is done.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by FormerKnuckleDragger View Post
    Per some folks at Whistler, Vail is planning on extending the T-bar to the Blackcomb glacier, and might put in a surface lift to access Spanky's. I don't know what the equivalent would be at Squaw, but Vail does seem determined to put intermediate skiers in over their heads.
    LOL, Vail already put intermediate skiers over their head when they bought Kirkwood. During the first year of Vail ownership I saw "These Blacks are harder than at Heavenly" written on the white boards on Chair 6 and Chair 10.

  5. #55
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    Funny, I came on this thread as I was looking through some stuff, and I have the President of KSL's card with his cell# on it. I have no idea when I met him.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Wouldn't you get to it from the track to Tower 16, which has been open repeatedly for weeks? BTW is Oregon Trail a new thing since KSL came, or has Squaw always got to the bottom of Silvy from the bottom of Solitude and KSL just turned it into a (shitty) run. I've certainly seen landbridge with no track on it when Silvy was open.
    KSL made a work road a shitty ski run. It's not so much of just getting a cat to the bottom for the sake of grooming or building a ramp for the lift. The real need for it to open Silvy is so they can easily get a troop carrier cat to the bottom for the sake of patrol, or in the event of a serious lift failure with no way to get people out. The usual route to get a cat in and out of shirely canyon is down the 5th tree run (I have no clue what they call it now).

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shred Baron View Post
    KSL made a work road a shitty ski run. It's not so much of just getting a cat to the bottom for the sake of grooming or building a ramp for the lift. The real need for it to open Silvy is so they can easily get a troop carrier cat to the bottom for the sake of patrol, or in the event of a serious lift failure with no way to get people out. The usual route to get a cat in and out of shirely canyon is down the 5th tree run (I have no clue what they call it now).
    Thanks for the explanation. Oregon Trail is one of the more-ill-conceived KSL notions--just what we need at the bottom of Shirley--a bunch of intermediates coming there from OT. 5th Tree Run is Marillac's, whoever the hell he is or was. (My favorite story about Squaw names is Schimmelpfennig (?sp) Bowl, named for Wes Schimmelpfenning--long time patroller and later NSP director--by Wes Schimmelpfenning, who put up his own signs until they made it official. I've also heard a story, no idea if true, that a rock under Granite is named for a patroller who tried to drop a "cliff" sign on it from the lift and fell off. )

    BTW I love Squaw's solution for parking problems--come earlier. I can't figure out how that will increase the amount of parking; it just means everyone will have to keep getting up earlier and earlier. Hard to blame Squaw for too many people wanting to ski there on a good day, though. While I could easily afford a more expensive pass I don't see that as a solution--skiing needs to be kept semi-affordable, not just a sport for those of us who can afford to pay more.

  8. #58
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    Official KSL Bitch AND Bitch about people bitching about KSL thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    They didn't get silvy open long before that incident happened. Did you ever consider that some of us know people who work there in various departments that are also pissed off and we aren't just making assumptions?
    Nope.

    Obviously I'm not defending KSL. I'm just hoping they have more of a spine than to use an employee death as an excuse.

  9. #59
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    Mar 2006
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    " Plus I have yet to see the results of the investigation into the incident that says what role, if any, KSL played in the incident. As a potential customer, I want to know the results of the investigation and in my opinion it is horrible for KSL to use the death of the patroller as an excuse until the investigation is done."

    herc- Joe's funeral was one week ago, seven days. There are probably over 5 agencies involved in the investigation, of which Squaw is a participant, not the lead, to avoid "agency bias". ATF is involved as a big player, and the military has joined in some past incidents, depending on materials used. Since there appears to be no direct witness the group will have to work back from circumstantial evidence. It is not their first rodeo and the process will likely take months- if not longer. The patrols on both sides of that ridge are pros in every sense of the word, let them do their jobs
    and please stop asking them "What happened?" while they're working.
    Maybe buy one a beer after sweep...? Now- back to the cat road quandary.
    "if you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind..."

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    "
    herc- Joe's funeral was one week ago, seven days. There are probably over 5 agencies involved in the investigation, of which Squaw is a participant, not the lead, to avoid "agency bias". ATF is involved as a big player, and the military has joined in some past incidents, depending on materials used. Since there appears to be no direct witness the group will have to work back from circumstantial evidence. It is not their first rodeo and the process will likely take months- if not longer. The patrols on both sides of that ridge are pros in every sense of the word, let them do their jobs
    and please stop asking them "What happened?" while they're working.
    Maybe buy one a beer after sweep...? Now- back to the cat road quandary.
    I did not mean to come off as if I am rushing the investigation. I am very happy that so many agencies are involved to prevent agency bias and I hope that they take as much as they need to come to the correct conclusion. This, like any good investigation, should not be rushed in any way.

    My point, which I didn't make clear enough, is that you should not comment on ongoing investigations. Commenting could be speculation (which this community has done a great job of not doing) or it could be KSL using his death as an excuse why you don't open terrain. Everyone knows that his death has had a huge effect on the patrollers at Squaw/Alpine so there is no need to remind them. KSL should talk as little as possible about the incident until the investigation is done and focus on helping his family deal with the loss.

    I also hope that once the investigation is done, KSL will post a link to it on their webpage so that anyone who wants to read it can.

  11. #61
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    Come to think of it, snowmobile traffic to silvy uses the oregon trail too. That's as big of reason as any to need it.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Thanks for the explanation. Oregon Trail is one of the more-ill-conceived KSL notions--just what we need at the bottom of Shirley--a bunch of intermediates coming there from OT. 5th Tree Run is Marillac's, whoever the hell he is or was. (My favorite story about Squaw names is Schimmelpfennig (?sp) Bowl, named for Wes Schimmelpfenning--long time patroller and later NSP director--by Wes Schimmelpfenning, who put up his own signs until they made it official. I've also heard a story, no idea if true, that a rock under Granite is named for a patroller who tried to drop a "cliff" sign on it from the lift and fell off. )

    BTW I love Squaw's solution for parking problems--come earlier. I can't figure out how that will increase the amount of parking; it just means everyone will have to keep getting up earlier and earlier. Hard to blame Squaw for too many people wanting to ski there on a good day, though. While I could easily afford a more expensive pass I don't see that as a solution--skiing needs to be kept semi-affordable, not just a sport for those of us who can afford to pay more.

    http://unofficialnetworks.com/2011/0...quaw-valley-ca

    Or maybe for his son who lived in his truck in A lot

    As for hiring/staffing more people who can cut the road...that road gets put in less than once a season (then maintained for however many weeks it is open). The people who do it have many years/decades of experience. It is not as simple as just hiring or training somebody. Maybe they've been derelict, maybe not

    And that snow down there is funky. The amount of coverage needed is different year to year (and always a lot needed). I don't know to what extent they're using it as an excuse, especially since it has already opened but it has always been the bottleneck, long before KSL

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Vail certainly couldn't make things any worse. Both on the mountain and in the village.
    Well, besides closing the ski area mid-April every year regardless of snow.
    I really lack the words to compliment myself today. - Alberto Tomba

  14. #64
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    May 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmmm...pow! View Post
    Well, besides closing the ski area mid-April every year regardless of snow.
    Isn't that largely a factor of USFS land vs private property? (Not sure about this but it was always my assumption)

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD16 View Post
    [url]As for hiring/staffing more people who can cut the road...that road gets put in less than once a season (then maintained for however many weeks it is open). The people who do it have many years/decades of experience. It is not as simple as just hiring or training somebody. Maybe they've been derelict, maybe not
    Can someone explain to me why it is that hard to train people to cut that road? If we can train enough doctors, engineers, Avalanche reporters, backcountry ski guides then why can't we train enough people to cut a road in avalanche terrain? I know it's a gnarly job but so is being an avalanche forecaster and going in the backcountry in extreme avalanche conditions.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD16 View Post
    I suspect operations have gotten significantly worse in the 10 years I've been gone but I wonder how much of this is internet/social media driven? I heard these same complaints every year back when Alex was alive just without this megaphone
    I've had a pass since '93. On a year like this year, silvy was open every fucking day that wasn't a storm day and within 2-3 days after storms.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Isn't that largely a factor of USFS land vs private property? (Not sure about this but it was always my assumption)
    It can be but normally isn't. Alpine, mammoth and A-basin all operate on Forrest service land. The Forrest service does have restrictions for certain areas. The only two that I am pretty certain of are vail mtn. And Jackson hole,. Both are closed for either elk migration or calving season. My details on this may not be perfect, bit I'm pretty certain about it.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheK12 View Post
    I'm literally amazed at how many mountain operation experts we have on TGR....
    Just heads who have been around a while. Like before KSL. Way before. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
    it'd be a lot c o o l e r if you d i d . . .

  19. #69
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    Dec 2004
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    Official KSL Bitch AND Bitch about people bitching about KSL thread

    Fuck ksl!
    Pass holder the last 9 years. So many things to list. Shorter seasons leading me to not be able to ski alpine by dec 3rd, spring skiing cut short and/or weekends only (im midweek tue-thur non holiday skier), AM logos/ethos/uniqueness sucked dry, horrible communications regarding whats scheduled (many times 6 listed and not spinning with no corral), holding line up at breesway causing Chinese uphill instead of being set up by 8, lying about winds up top(show them noaa ward peak sensor showing 25mph gusting to 35, they claim 65 gusting to 100+), etc. etc.

    Spent my money elsewhere this year. Love the mountain and would pay 1500 for a pass if it brought back the soul, opened the mountain in a timely manner and spun more lifts more often, and killed the crowds.
    Drink to remember not to forget!
    Fourisight Wines

  20. #70
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    Nov 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandudebro View Post
    Just heads who have been around a while. Like before KSL. Way before. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
    It is raining right now though...

  21. #71
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    Having read about KSL donating nearly half a million dollars to climate denying politicians in order to get sway with the most corrupt of office holding scumbags makes Wirth a scumbag or equal, if not greater, proportions. But actions speak louder than words. Stop buying passes from this asshole. Put up a protest line across the road where it hits 89 - on the holiday weekends - and affect KSL in the only spot it matters - their pocketbook. The words here and at meetings slide off their backs like water off a duck's ass. They don't mean shit to a deaf corporate evil entity.

  22. #72
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    Bad ass indeed. Deserves a better run than 5th Tree Run to be named for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Having read about KSL donating nearly half a million dollars to climate denying politicians in order to get sway with the most corrupt of office holding scumbags makes Wirth a scumbag or equal, if not greater, proportions. But actions speak louder than words. Stop buying passes from this asshole. Put up a protest line across the road where it hits 89 - on the holiday weekends - and affect KSL in the only spot it matters - their pocketbook. The words here and at meetings slide off their backs like water off a duck's ass. They don't mean shit to a deaf corporate evil entity.
    You're right of course. Problem is the fuckers own the only decent mountain around here, at least for those of us too wimpy and old to ski BC.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shred Baron View Post
    It can be but normally isn't. Alpine, mammoth and A-basin all operate on Forest service land. The Forest service does have restrictions for certain areas. The only two that I am pretty certain of are vail mtn. And Jackson hole,. Both are closed for either elk migration or calving season. My details on this may not be perfect, bit I'm pretty certain about it.
    Specific (and rare) restrictions like the ones mentioned above aside, resorts don't generally stop operating because the land management agency granting them a special use permit makes them. The USFS is in the business of promoting recreation, and unless late/early season use would cause increased resource damage, the agency wouldn't generally interfere with operating dates.

    An "early" closing date may make its way into the operations plan that is signed by both the resort and USFS. The closing would likely be initially proposed by the resort, and unless there was a compelling reason (like resource damage or interference with other valid uses of the land), the agency would not be likely to demand an early season closure.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Bad ass indeed. Deserves a better run than 5th Tree Run to be named for him.


    You're right of course. Problem is the fuckers own the only decent mountain around here, at least for those of us too wimpy and old to ski BC.
    You're just fucking spoiled, old goat. You want decent, as in gnar? Go to Kirkwood. You want cruisers, Northstar and Heavenly have those. Afraid you'll miss waiting in line six hours for freshies on KT? That line will be 16 hours if people don't start voting with their wallets and engage in civil disobedience before the building starts. I've been skiing Squaw since 1978 and when I looked over at Olympic Valley from the lift on the backside of an uncrowded Northstar a couple days ago, I might have sighed a little whimper of sweet reminiscence but then I thought about the clusterfuck it has become and I was over it.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Having read about KSL donating nearly half a million dollars to climate denying politicians in order to get sway with the most corrupt of office holding scumbags makes Wirth a scumbag or equal, if not greater, proportions. But actions speak louder than words. Stop buying passes from this asshole. Put up a protest line across the road where it hits 89 - on the holiday weekends - and affect KSL in the only spot it matters - their pocketbook. The words here and at meetings slide off their backs like water off a duck's ass. They don't mean shit to a deaf corporate evil entity.
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    I called out KSL in this month's Powder, so there's that

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