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  1. #776
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    Jul 2005
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    I don't have an issue with this.

    I had an issue with Squaw buying Alpine. - That train left the station long ago.

    that said a real train or Tram between Sugar bowl - Norden - Squaw - Alpine -- that would mean something.

    Or!
    regular commuter train service between - Reno - Verdi - Truckee - Norden - 4 time a day ? That would be awesome.
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  2. #777
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    Mar 2008
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    lake level
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The way Andy attacked Moonshine Ink for reporting OSHA fining SV for patrol safety violations reminds me of a certain press secretary for the president of an unspecified country attacking a reporter for questioning of a general. (Don't want this to wind up in pollyass do we.) It boggles my mind that the supposedly smart businessmen who run KSL, who need decent relations with the NT-Truckee community, choose to keep such an obvious douche as the public face of SV. More like the public ass. Andy's increasingly desperate defensiveness and over-the-top PR attempts make me think that maybe his job is on the line.
    Andy is doing exactly what KSL wants him to. They don't care about, or need, positive relations with the community. He just needs to influence the handful of people in power down the hill who make the decisions, regardless of the communities wishes, and that is obviously working. I know Andy, not really well, but I've had numerous conversations with him, none of it concerning business. If you don't read the local news of have a stake in what his company is doing, he comes off as pretty likable - I'm sure the average bay area passholder who hasn't been around Squaw for long that sees that video with JT will fall for that shit.
    It seems there are a handful of Squaw skiers backing the gondola, but I haven't met a single longtime Alpine skier in favor. I'm in the Alpine camp.
    I really lack the words to compliment myself today. - Alberto Tomba

  3. #778
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Squaw valley
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    2,553
    Actually, Andy had screwed up badly by not trying to get the local influencers to agree with his plans.

    Look at the law suits and the incorporate squaw.

    This heavy handed approach has cost then a number of years.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

  4. #779
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Olympic Valley
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    238
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The way Andy attacked Moonshine Ink for reporting OSHA fining SV for patrol safety violations reminds me of a certain press secretary for the president of an unspecified country attacking a reporter for questioning of a general. (Don't want this to wind up in pollyass do we.) It boggles my mind that the supposedly smart businessmen who run KSL, who need decent relations with the NT-Truckee community, choose to keep such an obvious douche as the public face of SV. More like the public ass. Andy's increasingly desperate defensiveness and over-the-top PR attempts make me think that maybe his job is on the line.
    We just read this today and are even more surprised he attacked Moonshine Ink as Fake News.

    "Wirth is a member of Capital Public Radio's Board of Directors."

    From this article Squaw Valley, Alpine Meadows Hoping To Build Gondola Connecting Two Resorts

  5. #780
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cruzing
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    9,082
    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    I don't have an issue with this.

    I had an issue with Squaw buying Alpine. - That train left the station long ago.

    that said a real train or Tram between Sugar bowl - Norden - Squaw - Alpine -- that would mean something.

    Or!
    regular commuter train service between - Reno - Verdi - Truckee - Norden - 4 time a day ? That would be awesome.
    Yeah. But they are not doing that. It is not in the interest of the capitalist and corps. They will build a pointless bucket lift so tourans can say they skied all of both mountains in a day. No way KSL will ever put in a rail line to mitigate traffic, unless the government requires it before they build any more shit. But that won't happen cause...

  6. #781
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    Yeah. But they are not doing that. It is not in the interest of the capitalist and corps. They will build a pointless bucket lift so tourans can say they skied all of both mountains in a day. No way KSL will ever put in a rail line to mitigate traffic, unless the government requires it before they build any more shit. But that won't happen cause...
    Squaw is actually supposed to be paying for mass transit improvements as part of the development deal--but the amount is lacking quite a few zeros. Less than they spent fighting incorporation if I recall correctly.

  7. #782
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    Mar 2008
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    lake level
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    I think they agreed to pay a little under a half million, which obviously doesn't cover much. That was the money to get the CA AG off their back. And their stance is that if the lawsuit against them is successful and they have to present their plan to the county again, that money goes away. Not sure what improvements they can actually do that would make a difference, besides drilling a tunnel to Auburn. I would be in favor of that.
    I really lack the words to compliment myself today. - Alberto Tomba

  8. #783
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmmm...pow! View Post
    I think they agreed to pay a little under a half million, which obviously doesn't cover much. That was the money to get the CA AG off their back. And their stance is that if the lawsuit against them is successful and they have to present their plan to the county again, that money goes away. Not sure what improvements they can actually do that would make a difference, besides drilling a tunnel to Auburn. I would be in favor of that.
    I think there was some additional money specifically for mass transit in the original proposal, but the amount was equally trivial. The AG money goes into the clean air fund--whatever that does.

  9. #784
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    CA
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    Those KSL klowns....opened Summit chair over at Alpine!

    Seems like they're trying harder on ops this season. Whether or not last season's continuous bitch-fest worked or not, good on em.

  10. #785
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    on the banks of Fish Creek
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    1,229

  11. #786
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    13
    I know this had been reported happening over the past few seasons at Squaw since KSL took over, but apparently Alterra (the KSL/Aspen joint venture) has banned/blacklisted some season pass holders at Winter Park this season for complaining on social media about operations, voiding and refunding their pass for this season and not allowing them to purchase a season pass for next season.

  12. #787
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    707
    Quote Originally Posted by thepowderhound View Post
    I know this had been reported happening over the past few seasons at Squaw since KSL took over, but apparently Alterra (the KSL/Aspen joint venture) has banned/blacklisted some season pass holders at Winter Park this season for complaining on social media about operations, voiding and refunding their pass for this season and not allowing them to purchase a season pass for next season.
    I don't know if this is true, but if it is I hope some clients lawyer up and sue Alterra for voilating the first amendment. This sounds highly illegal, although I am not a lawyer.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

  13. #788
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by hercule33 View Post
    I don't know if this is true, but if it is I hope some clients lawyer up and sue Alterra for voilating the first amendment. This sounds highly illegal, although I am not a lawyer.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app
    The First Amendment applies to government, not to private businesses. I don't know if WP is on public land (SVAM is partly) and whether they can ban access to said public land for expressing an opinion, no matter how offensive. Maybe it depends on the terms of their permit. I'm sure it would be very expensive to pursue a case and I am sure the ACLU or public interest law firms have better cases to pursue if one were looking for free legal services.

    BTW--how reliable is your information--is there a publicly available source-- and what was the nature of the posts on social media--any threats of violence or property destruction?

  14. #789
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    13
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    BTW--how reliable is your information--is there a publicly available source-- and what was the nature of the posts on social media--any threats of violence or property destruction?
    I know one of the banned people who told me about others. I guess he was complaining about closures, lift ops, on-mountain operations and planned improvements. Not sure about the what the others said.

  15. #790
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    California
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    135
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The First Amendment applies to government, not to private businesses. I don't know if WP is on public land (SVAM is partly) and whether they can ban access to said public land for expressing an opinion, no matter how offensive. Maybe it depends on the terms of their permit. I'm sure it would be very expensive to pursue a case and I am sure the ACLU or public interest law firms have better cases to pursue if one were looking for free legal services.

    BTW--how reliable is your information--is there a publicly available source-- and what was the nature of the posts on social media--any threats of violence or property destruction?
    From what I remember WP is owned by the city of Denver but operated by Altera (or previously intrawest, powder, whoever). Not that Im truly aware of that would change 1st amendment rights to the situation.


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  16. #791
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    707
    As I said I am not a lawyer but if businesses can't refuse service based on race, gender, religion etc. I can't believe that they could refuse service based on you expressing your opinion online.

    If there is a legal case, a good idea would be to file the case and then go to the media. I would imagine they would settle out of court real quick to avoid the bad publicity

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

  17. #792
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SF & the Ho
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    5,549
    You are definitely not a lawyer. Any business can tell you to stfu&gtfo anytime they want.

  18. #793
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    Oct 2011
    Posts
    707
    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    You are definitely not a lawyer. Any business can tell you to stfu&gtfo anytime they want.
    Maybe. But if they say GTFO and stfu because I am black or Muslim they have problem don't they?

  19. #794
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    Nov 2009
    Location
    CA
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    Nobody remembers the huge blow-up about pulling passes for FB comments from last year?? Damn, and I thought I was a stoner! haha

    http://unofficialalpine.com/?p=12334

    Quote Originally Posted by hercule33 View Post
    Maybe. But if they say GTFO and stfu because I am black or Muslim they have problem don't they?
    Yep, Civil Rights Act. Private businesses are prohibited by federal law from discriminating on the basis of race, religion, national origin, gender, and disability. Doesn't say anything about freedom of speech.
    sproing!

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  20. #795
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Nobody remembers the huge blow-up about pulling passes for FB comments from last year?? Damn, and I thought I was a stoner! haha

    http://unofficialalpine.com/?p=12334



    Yep, Civil Rights Act. Private businesses are prohibited by federal law from discriminating on the basis of race, religion, national origin, gender, and disability. Doesn't say anything about freedom of speech.
    Lol, so what's all this Facebook is discriminating against conservatives that Republicans have their panties in a bunch? Completely legal?

  21. #796
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    May 2011
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    Sonoma & Truckee
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    11,051
    Quote Originally Posted by hercule33 View Post
    Lol, so what's all this Facebook is discriminating against conservatives that Republicans have their panties in a bunch? Completely legal?
    Modern day Republicans = not fucking rational. Move along.

  22. #797
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Leadville, CO
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    4,026
    pm Danno
    My Company: Made in Colorado SKi Clothing- check it out

    Last year for 'Threads for Shreds' jacket trade in program!
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  23. #798
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepowderhound View Post
    I know one of the banned people who told me about others. I guess he was complaining about closures, lift ops, on-mountain operations and planned improvements. Not sure about the what the others said.
    Thanks.
    The pass pulling definitely stifled public, non-anonymous complaining around here. It only took a couple. Shut down Unofficial Alpine for example. (BTW--what's unofficial about Unofficial Squaw?)

    I wonder what the legal implications would be if the banned person spoke up at a meeting of say a planning commission or board of supervisors considering a project rather than on social media. Seems like that person might have a case?

    What we do know is that KSL, and now Alterra, is extremely image conscious and doesn't take well to public criticism. All the more reason to keep it up, just anonymously.

  24. #799
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    Feb 2008
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    Donner Summit
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    688
    Quote Originally Posted by Shred Baron View Post
    From what I remember WP is owned by the city of Denver but operated by Altera (or previously intrawest, powder, whoever).
    Burton v. Wilmington Parking Authority seems on point here, particularly since Denver previously operated the resort. That would make Alterra a state actor and bound by 1st amendment protections (as well as the 14th which was the issue in Burton). I'm just a dentist though.

  25. #800
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Sonoma & Truckee
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    From what I've seen, most USFS lease agreements give the operator a certain level of discretion regarding access. It's fairly clear they aren't acting as an arm of the government but as a private entity that happens to be leasing the land. During their operational period, they're pretty much allowed to limit access to their infrastructure as they see fit. So first amendment arguments don't really apply IMO. Lame, but very likely 100% legal.

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