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  1. #501
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post

    Really wish Scarpa would update the F1 with their new tech. Something like 115 flex and 1050g and a low volume heel could be a category killer.
    Man, I'd be all over that.

  2. #502
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Den/Baltimore
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    5,129
    Me, too! There's a big gap between the Alien RS (which is about as stiff as an F1) and the Maestrale RS2.

    Just like the 0G Tour Pro, Maestrale RS2, and Hawx XTD 130 have brought ~130 flex stiffness down to the 1350-1400g range, I'd love to see ~115 flex in the 1050-1100g range.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  3. #503
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    2,995
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Fischer Carbon Travers? Why isn't the ZG Tour Pro in contention? Fit?

    Really wish Scarpa would update the F1 with their new tech. Something like 115 flex and 1050g and a low volume heel could be a category killer.
    Lots of words written, sorry. Yeah, I mentioned the Z-G it at the top of post #493. 0G looked too much like "letter O" G ;-)

    When I was looking at the the Z-G and Cochise (along with Lupo & XT Freetours) three years ago, the Technicas were a good fit but in comparison with the other two, had a boxy feel to them.

    I'm definitely gonna check them out again when I get back to looking at a lighter Freetour. That Lange fit/stance was made for me. The Hawx has "that" fit too, but I'm not sure about the stance.

    As far as the Fischers in the lightweight category, they've been in my distant periphery. I have to say that much as the Boa concept has its appeal, the Fischer's gator lends an overall perception of gimmicky-ness to me, and this gives me pause.

    I like innovation (and I realize it's necessary to shave weight), but I don't like shit that breaks or leaks.

    Atomic and Scarpa seem to strike a good balance in this regard.

    ... Thom

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 02-28-2019 at 11:24 AM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  4. #504
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
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    6,092
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Me, too! There's a big gap between the Alien RS (which is about as stiff as an F1) and the Maestrale RS2.

    Just like the 0G Tour Pro, Maestrale RS2, and Hawx XTD 130 have brought ~130 flex stiffness down to the 1350-1400g range, I'd love to see ~115 flex in the 1050-1100g range.
    I think the F1 could get there with minor tweaks. Maybe as little as a buckle and tongue redesign.

  5. #505
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Winthrop, WA. Methow valley
    Posts
    742
    Anybody know how the Hawks XTD 130 liner compares to an Intuition Pro Tour or Tour Mod with respect to overall volume? My XTD liners are starting to get packed out.....and kinda suck anyway, so was thinking about replacing with an Intuition. But, that shell is absolute minimum volume for me pretty much throughout so probably can't live with a higher volume liner

  6. #506
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    whistler
    Posts
    974
    I went from stock xtd liner to a pro tour. at fitting, volume felt ridiculous frankly. the heat molding process made it so I'm back to roughly where i was in terms of buckle ladder position but with a much denser liner. Pro wrap felt way better out of the box but my post molding results lead me to believe it would've been too low volume.

    tl;dr if you're comfy with the stock liner the pro tour is probably fine but don't be discouraged by out of the box fit.

  7. #507
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    130
    I’ve got a pro tour MV in the same shell size and it’s good, but my shell fit was a bit generous to begin with. The Pro Tour LV in same shell size would likely be fine, especially if you were willing to do a couple subsequent molds to pack down the foam.

  8. #508
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    2,995
    The saga unfolds, and there's good news for the obsessed "princess and the pea" types (I ain't mentioning names).

    I've tried on two different sized Hawx (a 120 in 26.5 and a 130 in 25.5) along with a Zero-G in 25.5. Thanks to @I've seen black diamonds for inviting me over to try on his Hawx.

    If you're the sort who is pretty finicky about just enough length but not too much then you're in luck with these two fine companies. The shell length spacing is a bit staggered, and frankly (without being able to demo any of them), I'd choose based on length, as both heel pockets and ankles are nice and snug for my Lange loving feet. The stance on both companies' boots also feels nice and flat (like Langes).

    The Atomics are about 3-4mm shorter for a given last size. This sets up a nice continuum for tuning your shell length, because frankly, they're so similar in heel/ankle/instep that I'd select based on shell length. The sweet spot for me is the Technica last in 25.5 (Hawx 25.5 is pushing it in tightness, and 26.5 is on the loose side). Here's how my foot fit into these 3 shells:

    • Zero-G (25.5): one tight finger.
    • Hawx 130 (25.5): about 2/3 finger.
    • Hawx 120 (26.5): about 1-2/3 finger.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  9. #509
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    18,000
    whose finger? Why don't you use the scarpa stick ( 9-14mm ) or a sharpie is 15mm
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  10. #510
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    whose finger? Why don't you use the scarpa stick ( 9-14mm ) or a sharpie is 15mm
    My finger is the universal constant. I have been debating donating it to the national bureau of standards, but I play guitar and I'd miss it.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  11. #511
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    My finger is the universal constant. I have been debating donating it to the national bureau of standards, but I play guitar and I'd miss it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_finger
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  12. #512
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    the gach
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    5,494
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    My finger is the universal constant. I have been debating donating it to the national bureau of standards, but I play guitar and I'd miss it.
    So itís a left finger?
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  13. #513
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    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chugachjed View Post
    So it’s a left finger?
    I'd hate to lose either, since I'm practicing hybrid picking, although if forced to choose, I'd go with the Jerry Garcia look vs. losing one from my left hand ;-)

    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  14. #514
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
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    I've tried the one finger thing but frankly its hard to get it back there for an accurate read

    keep yer fingers and use a non sentient measuring device for fucksakes

    a sharpie is great cuz the base is 15mm and there is always one kicking around
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #515
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    66
    My friend is selling a pair of these for $300. Used for 5 days total. I'm very tempted. I've been skiing in the Backlands this season and honestly it's harder to drive the skis on some days.

    Is $300 a good deal for these at this point?

  16. #516
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
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    3,753
    Quote Originally Posted by zs3889 View Post
    My friend is selling a pair of these for $300. Used for 5 days total. I'm very tempted. I've been skiing in the Backlands this season and honestly it's harder to drive the skis on some days.

    Is $300 a good deal for these at this point?
    If they fit you then yes. If not, then no.

  17. #517
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    441

    Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD aka Hawk Extended aka HawX

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    Anybody know how the Hawks XTD 130 liner compares to an Intuition Pro Tour or Tour Mod with respect to overall volume? My XTD liners are starting to get packed out.....and kinda suck anyway, so was thinking about replacing with an Intuition. But, that shell is absolute minimum volume for me pretty much throughout so probably can't live with a higher volume liner
    Iím in a similar boat and the intuition pro tour was a great fit


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  18. #518
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    42
    Looking for new liners. Tour Wrap sounds good and would like to try that but 26 is sold out on every Euro retailer I have found. Might just get Pro Tours but bit worried that low toebox of 120xtd and Pro tours tongue (velcro?) might be a problem. Anyone noticed problems? At the moment using Palaus which are starting to feel like wet wool socks.

  19. #519
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by JanIdar View Post
    Looking for new liners. Tour Wrap sounds good and would like to try that but 26 is sold out on every Euro retailer I have found. Might just get Pro Tours but bit worried that low toebox of 120xtd and Pro tours tongue (velcro?) might be a problem. Anyone noticed problems? At the moment using Palaus which are starting to feel like wet wool socks.
    I had 120's. With custom Sidas insole (3.6mm height) and stock liner they were perfect.

    Now I have 130s. Stock liner sole is somewhat thicker. Additionally, there is padding above the toes and with the same custom insoles the wiggle space is minimal. That makes me sceptical about Pro Tours.

    As an experiment I baked an old pair of Luxury liners. There fitted quite nice, but again less wiggle space than 120's stock liners.

    I discussed liner options for XTD with Intuition over email and they suggested that Tour Wrap might be the best option considering its thinner sole (4mm).

    I know that all this doesn't answer your question but I guess it might be useful.

  20. #520
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by aanev View Post
    I know that all this doesn't answer your question but I guess it might be useful.
    Very helpfull, thank you. I actually have old mv luxurys that I have used for short tours or sidecountry. Not much wiggle room and that's why I'm worried about Pro Tours. Haven't used stock liners.

  21. #521
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,797
    Great thread. Couple questions for the collective.

    I may be replacing my Maestrale RS2s with the 19/20 Hawx XTD 130s next year for the tighter heel cup fit and stiffer forward pressure. (I tried on this year's model, and the shell is unchanged for next year.) This will be a dedicated touring boot. I get about 30-40 days touring a year, and have KR2 for resort. Prior touring boots: heavy-ass alpine boots in frame bindings (haha!), Garmont Adrenalins, first gen Maestrale RS, and tele boots galore.

    (1) For those who have owned a couple seasons, how has durability been?

    (2) I've read of complaints of "leakage" (snow or water leaking into the boot) in the first year's model run. I think but don't know they resolved that. (I read that somewhere.) Anyone out there "leaking"?? haha

    (3) Any complaints with the flat sole for a touring-only rig? GripWalk in next year's model. I know they will be worse scrambling and rocking than a 9523 rockered sole, but how do these bootpack and do on firm as compared to a 9523 rockered touring sole (like on Maestrale). Just want to figure out if I'll be giving up a lot with the GW sole. I don't plan on using these with resort bindings, so don't really care about that.

    (4) I would use these on multi-day tours in addition to long days in the backcountry and shorty dawn patrol laps. Anyone using these for big days or multi-days with positive results? I know they won't walk as good as the F1, Backland, etc class, but I'm fine doing multi-days in my RS2, so yeah...

    (5) Anyone else go from RS2s to these? I was thinking I might try to salvage the RS2s with a tour wrap liner, but next year's upgrades to the Hawx and the better heel cup fit for me make me think this might be a better option over all.
    sproing!

    FS: crampons, lightweight winter down sleeping bag, and stuff https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ost?highlight=

  22. #522
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    589
    I donít have a crazy number of days on my pair, but I was quite impressed by how they held up to dirt/rock bushwhacking for multiple miles. Surprisingly comfortable and I think they walk fine (mine have the WTR sole). Iíd prefer if the bottom buckle was reversed, but itís not a deal breaker.

    Iíve used them on 7-8K days if that qualifies as big and havenít had any blister issues or thought that theyíre too heavy.

    I have Intuition Pro Tour LVs in mine and think the forward flex is a bit harsh when I crank them down (the liners are really thin) so I find they ski better with the top buckles a bit looser.

    No leakage with my boots.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  23. #523
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    2,995
    Scarpa ankles/heels were way too wide for me, and it finally drove me to retire my Maestrales before their time. I really like the fit of both the Zero-G Pro and the Hawx.

    In retrospect, I'm really glad I have a 9523 sole (the Z-G).

    Fit of the two boots is very is similar, but Ill bet you'll find one that you prefer over the other.

    Internal shell size on the Z-Gs is maybe 2-3mm longer. That sounds like very little, but for me, it was the difference between being in a 25.5 and a 26 (need the 26/26.5 in the Hawx, & get by with 25.5 in the Z-G). You're situation might be the opposite, but it's something else you might want to consider.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  24. #524
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
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    3,157
    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    (1) For those who have owned a couple seasons, how has durability been?
    Durability has been great, the Grilmid used in the Ultra XTD is quite tough (less damage to the heel and toe than first gen Zero G Guide Pro or Lange XT Free 130 from alpine bindings, no problems with hardwear. OEM liner in my pair was pretty thin and packed out quickly, the 2020 liner should be more robust.

    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    (2) I've read of complaints of "leakage" (snow or water leaking into the boot) in the first year's model run. I think but don't know they resolved that. (I read that somewhere.) Anyone out there "leaking"?? haha
    Never had a problem with water or snow getting in the boots.

    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    (3) Any complaints with the flat sole for a touring-only rig? GripWalk in next year's model. I know they will be worse scrambling and rocking than a 9523 rockered sole, but how do these bootpack and do on firm as compared to a 9523 rockered touring sole (like on Maestrale). Just want to figure out if I'll be giving up a lot with the GW sole. I don't plan on using these with resort bindings, so don't really care about that.
    The WTR sole is not flat, it is still rockered with a flat AFD contact point. It scrambles fine, though a full rubber toe would be better. I suspect the Gripwalk sole will be comparable, maybe slightly better with the recessed AFD pad.

    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    (4) I would use these on multi-day tours in addition to long days in the backcountry and shorty dawn patrol laps. Anyone using these for big days or multi-days with positive results? I know they won't walk as good as the F1, Backland, etc class, but I'm fine doing multi-days in my RS2, so yeah...
    I don't use them for bigger days/multi day tours, I have the Backland Carbon for that. IME the Hawx Ultra XTD doesn't let you use all the mechanical range of motion because the small cuff diameter means the front of your ankle hits the instep before the walk mode is maxed. Of course, the small cuff diameter is one reason the boots skis so well. Make sure the top two buckles are loose when you are skinning, and don't take super long strides.

  25. #525
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    6,092
    I had the original RS's. Now have XTD's. XTD's ski a whole lot better, but don't walk or skin quite as well as RS's. No durability or leaking issues for me either. I also supplement with a lighter boot (F1's). Used to do big days in my RS's. F1's are huge improvement. If I could only keep one boot, I'd keep the F1's.

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