Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD aka Hawk Extended aka HawX

[Jtlange]

Anyone has new XTD130 with mimic liners? I skied mine for 2 weeks and since day 1 my boots are leaking significantly through the ovelap part at the toe... After skiing -15-20F days instantly felt that my feet are cold. Took liners off and toes are all wet. Started cranking both lower part buckles to 2nd or even 3rd hook right before going out from home but they are still leaking.

Have you heat molded your shells? Sometimes that boot needs a shell mold to seal up right.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

Have you heat molded your shells? Sometimes that boot needs a shell mold to seal up right.

Yeap, I did at the shop, atomic-branded oven was used. The sealing is ok mostly, it's the very end of the overlap where it leaks, almost at the toes. I'll post pics later

[dub2]

Shameless plug but have a pair for sale over on GS in 26.5

[Jongle]

I'm having an issue with the Mimic liners for my Hawx Prime XTC and I wonder if anyone else has encountered this...

I heat-molded the liners when I bought the boots and have since taken them out periodically to dry them, add shims underneath, etc. The liners are damn near impossible to get back in the boots, and shoving them back in has caused the 'spine' of the liners to buckle, creating a crease at the top of the heel. The crease feels like a hard plastic ridge when I put the boots on and absolutely shredded both of my heels last week before I realized how bad the problem was.

I've squished and contorted various pairs of Intuition liners while putting them back into boots, and they always just pop back into shape and feel comfy again when I put the boots on. Maybe this Hawx issue has something to do with the Mimic material. I'm going to try remolding the Mimic liners and trying not to crease them again, and if that doesn't work I'll just have to pick up a pair of Pro Tours or Tour Wraps.

[skier2265]

How would the XTD 120s (with mimic liner) work as a 70/30 resort/touring boot, assuming it fits?

I’m relatively light, 5’11 160 and don’t ski that aggressive. I mostly ski at Squaw but I don’t air or charge hard in general— mostly Siberia and headwall laps, and Shirley groomers. I ski Rustler 10s in bounds and generally prefer more lightweight playful skis.

I also started backcountry this year and like the idea of a narrow alpine fit (I have very low volume feet) paired with a reasonable weight (to go with my single setup with zero g 95s and Alpinist).

I’m in the market for both alpine and touring boots and planning to go to start haus or Olympic boot works. Seems like it would be great to go through the process one time and save a bunch of money with one boot.


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[Dromond]

How would the XTD 120s (with mimic liner) work as a 70/30 resort/touring boot, assuming it fits?

I’m relatively light, 5’11 160 and don’t ski that aggressive. I mostly ski at Squaw but I don’t air or charge hard in general— mostly Siberia and headwall laps, and Shirley groomers. I ski Rustler 10s in bounds and generally prefer more lightweight playful skis.

I also started backcountry this year and like the idea of a narrow alpine fit (I have very low volume feet) paired with a reasonable weight (to go with my single setup with zero g 95s and Alpinist).

I’m in the market for both alpine and touring boots and planning to go to start haus or Olympic boot works. Seems like it would be great to go through the process one time and save a bunch of money with one boot.


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I know people do this,but believe the cost savings are largely an illusion. I ski both the Hawx ultra alpine boot and the XTD for touring. They might look the same, but the alpine version is significantly better for resort skiing.

-tech bindings wear out faster and are more likely to break than alpine bindings. I’ve seen it happen.
-Alpine binding release is more reliable than tech bindings
-Alpine boots, skis and especially bindings tend to ski better in rough resort conditions.
-I’ve seen multiple people break touring boot walk modes skiing in the resort

I recommend just getting used alpine skis, boots and bindings for the resort. In fact used, separate alpine and touring setups will perform better than a single dedicated newer setup for both. If you want to make one set of something work for both then do have one pair of boots but get separate skis/bindings for the resort.

[Dromond]

To be more specific - maybe just make sure your current alpine skis/bindings can accommodate the touring boot you want to get.

Another option is to have one boot with two liners. The stiffer alpine style liners can make the touring boot perform a lot better at the resort

[El Chupacabra]

-tech bindings wear out faster and are more likely to break than alpine bindings. I’ve seen it happen.
-Alpine binding release is more reliable than tech bindings
-Alpine boots, skis and especially bindings tend to ski better in rough resort conditions.
-I’ve seen multiple people break touring boot walk modes skiing in the resort

This, X1000.

I bet each of us knows someone who insists on skiing pin bindings inbounds as an everyday setup. These people cannot be educated, and insist their BC gear is just fine for inbounds. Eventually they'll learn the hard way.

[Dromond]

Full disclosure: I have skied touring gear in the resort and will again. I do it specifically when I'm on a primarily-touring ski trip or when I'm intending to access the backcountry from the resort. Otherwise it's straight back to the alpine equipment which I find to be more durable, more enjoyable to ski in the resort, and safer. I'm definitely holding back a bit when skiing the pin bindings - moreso on hard/rough snow at the resort than when skiing soft snow.

I think the walk mode on the XTD makes the flex noticeably less progressive than the alpine version. It skis amazingly well for its weight and has pretty much the same great fit. It also can't be punched quite as well due to the different plastic and the placement of the walk mode. I also find the cuff rivets developed play much more quickly on the XTD than the alpine boot.

[camlax]

My thoughts on the XTD 130 prime after five 12+ hour days of patrolling in them. Coming from vulcans (best boot ever made), hoji frees, and lupos.

- Ditch the mimic liner. Its cold, leaks water, and the plastic on the tongue causes pressure points even when molded by a bootfitter. Powerwrap and everything is good!
- Walk mode is pretty mediocre at best, even with stock liners
- Ability to mold the boot to your foot is pretty awesome! Zero pressure points and an amazing fit. Just be careful that the bootfitter knows what hes doing. (mine didn't and my cuffs are tilted and rotated inward an obnoxious amount.) On a side note, anybody try re molding just the upper boot with a heat gun to not affect lower boot fit?
- 15* forward lean is spot on in my opinion but the ability to adjust from 13-17 is a great feature
- Hopefully they'll have vibram soles soon. Or at least a better gripwalk (more like the lupo)

[Jongle]

My thoughts on the XTD 130 prime after five 12+ hour days of patrolling in them. Coming from vulcans (best boot ever made), hoji frees, and lupos.

- Ditch the mimic liner. Its cold, leaks water, and the plastic on the tongue causes pressure points even when molded by a bootfitter. Powerwrap and everything is good!
- Walk mode is pretty mediocre at best, even with stock liners
- Ability to mold the boot to your foot is pretty awesome! Zero pressure points and an amazing fit. Just be careful that the bootfitter knows what hes doing. (mine didn't and my cuffs are tilted and rotated inward an obnoxious amount.) On a side note, anybody try re molding just the upper boot with a heat gun to not affect lower boot fit?
- 15* forward lean is spot on in my opinion but the ability to adjust from 13-17 is a great feature
- Hopefully they'll have vibram soles soon. Or at least a better gripwalk (more like the lupo)

I agree with pretty much all of the above after ~15 days touring in the Prime XTDs and another couple of days skiing the resort. The Mimic liners didn't work for me either. Lots of weird pressure points that disappeared after I switched them out for MV Pro Tours. The range of motion is also significantly better with the Pro Tours, although still not great.

I heat-molded just the toe box while wearing the boots with extra padding in a couple of spots and got good results (enough expansion of the shell in the problem areas).

[skier2265]

Thanks for the feedback Dromond -- good to know that you've felt a big difference in terms of their resort skiability. The progressive flex is important to me. I think the XTD 120 is made from PU rather Grilamid, which might make it flex smoother and easier to work with?

I'm definitely interested the reg ultra (if I go separate boots), because of its light weight, ability to custom fit with memory fit and the Mimic liner (or perhaps the "professional" version coming out 2022). However, based on some posts on Pugski I figured the XTD was pretty good inbounds:
https://www.skitalk.com/threads/the-...ange-rss.8278/
https://www.skitalk.com/threads/atom...s-130-s.22102/

By the way, I'm not sure if it wasn't clear but I don't plan on skiing tech bindings inbounds. I have Rustler 10s with Griffons (SoleID) for resort and a tech setup (ZeroG 95s with Kingpins). Was mostly considering the XTD for both resort and touring. I figured the Mimic liner would be good for inbounds and I could also get an Intuition liner if I find I need better ROM/weight for touring.

I've bought used boots in the past and it's never worked out. I've also gotten custom boots from a bootfitter and couldn't get them to work out. Planning to go brand new with these boots from a reputable boot shop, so I think 2 boots would cost a lot (but I'll do it if I need it).

[skier2265]

Camlax and Jongle, wow I'm surprised! I guess I had just bought into the Mimic marketing hype. Seemed like a unicorn liner to me (easy to fit compared to other custom liners, doesn't pack out, can be re-molded many times without issues). I also figured that Mimic solve any pressure point issues. I really wanted to believe that these could solve my everlasting fit issues.

[Dromond]

The XTD 130 I have is certainly ok inbounds (for a touring boot it’s frankly amazing and good enough for some) but since I have the alpine version I know that’s better. I don’t know how much the XTD 120 PU plastic makes a difference, but I don’t see how you can get around the rigid walk mode bar - that can’t flex! Certainly the plastic is a difference as the 130 XTD plastic does feel softer and maybe less damp.

They fit the same so if you get the XTD and end up liking it you can always pick up the alpine version later. The alpine one is even easier to punch/modify. That’s what I did - started with the XTD for touring then switched my alpine boots to the Hawx as well because I liked the low volume fit in the ankle and the precise feel.

A friend of mine who also skis the Hawx for alpine and XTD for touring has been through a million liners looking for the perfect ones and settled on the stock liner in both. I on the other hand have a Pro Wrap in the XTD and Plug Wrap in the alpines. I think that there is a lot of personal preference with liners - the feel and fit can change a lot.

I think the bindings followed by boot liners followed by shells are the weakest link for skiing touring stuff inbounds. Tech bindings generally have way less durability, safety and worse feel than alpine. The soft/light touring liners kind of ski crappy in my opinion although work for some. The touring shells can ski pretty good but are really light and generally the feel is not as good especially in rough conditions. Skis - well pick whatever you want but the best touring skis are often lighter than what you want at the resort!

[onenerdykid]

My thoughts on the XTD 130 prime after five 12+ hour days of patrolling in them. Coming from vulcans (best boot ever made), hoji frees, and lupos.

- Ditch the mimic liner. Its cold, leaks water, and the plastic on the tongue causes pressure points even when molded by a bootfitter. Powerwrap and everything is good!
- Walk mode is pretty mediocre at best, even with stock liners
- Ability to mold the boot to your foot is pretty awesome! Zero pressure points and an amazing fit. Just be careful that the bootfitter knows what hes doing. (mine didn't and my cuffs are tilted and rotated inward an obnoxious amount.) On a side note, anybody try re molding just the upper boot with a heat gun to not affect lower boot fit?
- 15* forward lean is spot on in my opinion but the ability to adjust from 13-17 is a great feature
- Hopefully they'll have vibram soles soon. Or at least a better gripwalk (more like the lupo)

I would be curious to know how the boot-fitter molded your Mimic liners given the issues you had with the resulting fit. What I have seen this year is that many fitters 1) aren't using the proper tools and 2) aren't following the process. They often want to fit the liner how they want to, meaning applying another liner's fit process to it because they are comfortable with performing that fitting process. When it's done properly (which honestly isn't hard at all), you shouldn't be experiencing pressure points of any kind.

[teledad]

Is the Ultra XTD 95 just as hard to put on as the Ultra XTD 130? Looking for a new touring boot for the wife, she skis Hawx Ultra 95 inbounds so the XTD version seems like an obvious choice, but she has a high instep that may be hard to get into the boot if it's as tough as my 130s. Currently tours on 1st gen Geas with the hinged tongue so getting in and out is easy.

[Dromond]

Is the Ultra XTD 95 just as hard to put on as the Ultra XTD 130? Looking for a new touring boot for the wife, she skis Hawx Ultra 95 inbounds so the XTD version seems like an obvious choice, but she has a high instep that may be hard to get into the boot if it's as tough as my 130s. Currently tours on 1st gen Geas with the hinged tongue so getting in and out is easy.

FYI I don’t think those flex ratings are equivalent between Ultra 130 and Ultra XTD 130 so there is a chance she will find the XTD version noticeably softer. I read of someone else getting the 120 XTD to match their 120 non XTD and being disappointed in how it was a softer flex.

FWIW my wife skis 110 flex alpine boots (Lange RX) and 130 (Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro) because the 120 flex Tecnica didn’t feel supportive enough to her compared to the Langes. Your results may vary.

[onenerdykid]

Is the Ultra XTD 95 just as hard to put on as the Ultra XTD 130? Looking for a new touring boot for the wife, she skis Hawx Ultra 95 inbounds so the XTD version seems like an obvious choice, but she has a high instep that may be hard to get into the boot if it's as tough as my 130s. Currently tours on 1st gen Geas with the hinged tongue so getting in and out is easy.

Ultra 95 and Ultra XTD 95 use the exact same shell material, so it will be very similar if not the same in terms of step in/out

[Jongle]

I would be curious to know how the boot-fitter molded your Mimic liners given the issues you had with the resulting fit. What I have seen this year is that many fitters 1) aren't using the proper tools and 2) aren't following the process. They often want to fit the liner how they want to, meaning applying another liner's fit process to it because they are comfortable with performing that fitting process. When it's done properly (which honestly isn't hard at all), you shouldn't be experiencing pressure points of any kind.

The shop where I bought the boots didn’t have a memory fit oven. I found another shop who said that they could fit Mimic liners, but when I showed up the tech heated the liners using heat stacks and didn’t have the special sock, shoe horn etc. I know that back in late October some shops were still waiting for the fit kits to arrive, so maybe the situation has improved since then.

[skier2265]

The XTD 130 I have is certainly ok inbounds (for a touring boot it’s frankly amazing and good enough for some) but since I have the alpine version I know that’s better. I don’t know how much the XTD 120 PU plastic makes a difference, but I don’t see how you can get around the rigid walk mode bar - that can’t flex! Certainly the plastic is a difference as the 130 XTD plastic does feel softer and maybe less damp.

They fit the same so if you get the XTD and end up liking it you can always pick up the alpine version later. The alpine one is even easier to punch/modify. That’s what I did - started with the XTD for touring then switched my alpine boots to the Hawx as well because I liked the low volume fit in the ankle and the precise feel.

A friend of mine who also skis the Hawx for alpine and XTD for touring has been through a million liners looking for the perfect ones and settled on the stock liner in both. I on the other hand have a Pro Wrap in the XTD and Plug Wrap in the alpines. I think that there is a lot of personal preference with liners - the feel and fit can change a lot.

I think the bindings followed by boot liners followed by shells are the weakest link for skiing touring stuff inbounds. Tech bindings generally have way less durability, safety and worse feel than alpine. The soft/light touring liners kind of ski crappy in my opinion although work for some. The touring shells can ski pretty good but are really light and generally the feel is not as good especially in rough conditions. Skis - well pick whatever you want but the best touring skis are often lighter than what you want at the resort!

Good advice! I’d be interested in starting with an XTD 120 for touring (assuming I can get the fit right at the bootfitter) and testing it in bounds as well. It would probably be better than my current in bounds boot if the fit is dialed in. Also it’s pretty cool that if the XTD works I can be confident that the regular Hawx will fit the same.


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[skier2265]

Hey Matt, are there shops in north lake Tahoe you recommend for Atomic boot fitting that use the specialized tools? I’m concerned about running into the same issues as Jongle. I’m looking at Start Haus and Olympic Bootworks but wondering if there are specific shops Atomic has worked with closely in the area.


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[onenerdykid]

The shop where I bought the boots didn’t have a memory fit oven. I found another shop who said that they could fit Mimic liners, but when I showed up the tech heated the liners using heat stacks and didn’t have the special sock, shoe horn etc. I know that back in late October some shops were still waiting for the fit kits to arrive, so maybe the situation has improved since then.

Yeah, unfortunately a heat stack is not able to sufficiently heat the Mimic material in the ankle/heel nor the plastic in the tongue & cuff. Heat stacks only soften the foam next to foot. It really does require the oven to mold everything properly. And when you throw the Covid-related problems that simply mess up our ability to deliver everything on time, it makes everything more difficult.

[onenerdykid]

Hey Matt, are there shops in north lake Tahoe you recommend for Atomic boot fitting that use the specialized tools? I’m concerned about running into the same issues as Jongle. I’m looking at Start Haus and Olympic Bootworks but wondering if there are specific shops Atomic has worked with closely in the area.


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I'm a bit out of the loop on knowing the specific shops in that area. The best course of action is to call up the Atomic shops in that area and make sure they have an oven, all of the Mimic tools, and have done the training. Just ask them point blank so there's no misunderstanding.

[Jongle]

Yeah, unfortunately a heat stack is not able to sufficiently heat the Mimic material in the ankle/heel nor the plastic in the tongue & cuff. Heat stacks only soften the foam next to foot. It really does require the oven to mold everything properly. And when you throw the Covid-related problems that simply mess up our ability to deliver everything on time, it makes everything more difficult.

That's good to know, I'll try to get the Mimic liners re-molded properly to give them a fair shot.

From my limited experience, the mimic material feels significantly stiffer and less "plush" than the old non-mimic alpine Prime 130 liner or an Intuition liner. That probably allows for a more precise fit when properly molded, but it also seems as though an un-molded (or improperly molded) Mimic liner could be less forgiving and more prone to pressure points than a regular foam liner. If that's the case, these shops who aren't doing the full Mimic process are really doing the boot a disservice, because it's otherwise awesome.

[camlax]

If that's the case, these shops who aren't doing the full Mimic process are really doing the boot a disservice, because it's otherwise awesome.

Agreed. Or doing the shell mold wrong.
Otherwise, this boot seems like the best thing out there for a 80/20 resort/touring boot.