Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD aka Hawk Extended aka HawX

[Eluder]

Pretty sure the additional bsl is only there for the tech fittings and internal length is the same with standard Ultra. It's in the NS thread. So if the standard Ultra is already short on you, walking/skinning without going longer would probably be misery.

This is correct, the same exact last is used. The 2mm is only there because of the tech fittings.

[greasyslope]

^Thanks.

I did read that and it is encouraging. It would be even better if someone had actually skied the stock liner, but that might not have been possible until recently.

Just looking for more opinions. Perhaps folks can do what we do best here and simply speculate if having a PU cuff instead of all Grilamid should help with progressiveness.

Nobody is going to armchair this one?

[adrenalated]

Bump. Finally got these on my feet. While overall still a little roomy for my absurdly low volume, narrow foot, they are as good as anything I've tried in. The flex feels spot on to me - substantial, but not overly stiff, quite progressive. Walk mode is impressive, better than my first gen Maestrale RS and rivaling my TLT6P.

My question is, has anyone tried to punch these yet, or any bootfitters want to speculate how much these can be punched and how well they'll hold it? I'm at a ~1cm shell fit in these, which is rather snug for touring. I would most likely need to punch for space in the big toe on both boots, maybe a couple mm. Going up a shell size won't work due to aforementioned skinny ass feet. I was able to have the big toes of my TLT6s punched (also made of Grilamid) and they've held up fine, but I probably need a little more space in these.

[XavierD]

Bump. Finally got these on my feet. While overall still a little roomy for my absurdly low volume, narrow foot, they are as good as anything I've tried in. The flex feels spot on to me - substantial, but not overly stiff, quite progressive. Walk mode is impressive, better than my first gen Maestrale RS and rivaling my TLT6P.

My question is, has anyone tried to punch these yet, or any bootfitters want to speculate how much these can be punched and how well they'll hold it? I'm at a ~1cm shell fit in these, which is rather snug for touring. I would most likely need to punch for space in the big toe on both boots, maybe a couple mm. Going up a shell size won't work due to aforementioned skinny ass feet. I was able to have the big toes of my TLT6s punched (also made of Grilamid) and they've held up fine, but I probably need a little more space in these.

You only using these with Tech Bindings? If so, easy to ouch. If not, can't grind any toe space.

[adrenalated]

You only using these with Tech Bindings? If so, easy to ouch. If not, can't grind any toe space.

While it's conceivable that I might want to stuff it in a Guardian or a hypothetical not-yet-released hybrid alpine/tech binding in the future, I am fine with losing that ability to have a boot that fits well. Current use is tech bindings only.

Other boots in contention right are Maestrale RS2.0 and Zero G Pro Guide, but both of those had more play in the heel.

[XavierD]

Yeah, I wouldn't have any hesitation getting another 5mm of toe length for you. Still tighter than I'd like for touring. If you have a fair amount of Achilles curve, should be ok. Does it feel like the boot prys your foot forward in walk mode?

[doebedoe]

Bump. Finally got these on my feet. While overall still a little roomy for my absurdly low volume, narrow foot, they are as good as anything I've tried in. The flex feels spot on to me - substantial, but not overly stiff, quite progressive. Walk mode is impressive, better than my first gen Maestrale RS and rivaling my TLT6P.

My question is, has anyone tried to punch these yet, or any bootfitters want to speculate how much these can be punched and how well they'll hold it? I'm at a ~1cm shell fit in these, which is rather snug for touring. I would most likely need to punch for space in the big toe on both boots, maybe a couple mm. Going up a shell size won't work due to aforementioned skinny ass feet. I was able to have the big toes of my TLT6s punched (also made of Grilamid) and they've held up fine, but I probably need a little more space in these.

Can I ask where abouts in the Front Range you found these to try on?

[adrenalated]

Yeah, I wouldn't have any hesitation getting another 5mm of toe length for you. Still tighter than I'd like for touring. If you have a fair amount of Achilles curve, should be ok. Does it feel like the boot prys your foot forward in walk mode?

I wouldn't say it pries my foot forward, but the toe definitely jams the front when I flex the boot back. Flexing forward in ski mode pulls the toe off the front.

Can I ask where abouts in the Front Range you found these to try on?

Bent Gate.

[grskier]

I'm at about 102 mm last width... can I get 4 mm out of the Ultra XTD 130?

[Dromond]

I wouldn't say it pries my foot forward, but the toe definitely jams the front when I flex the boot back. Flexing forward in ski mode pulls the toe off the front.

I'm in exactly the same spot with a narrow foot, so I have a ~1cm shell fit or less to get a tight fit. gregL did a few mm toe punch but I will probably need a few mm more to be able to walk all day comfortably. This is the best / tightest fit I've had in a touring boot - really looking forward to skiing them! I have alpine boots so I'll likely only ever use them with bindings that have a tech-style toe, anyways.

[tharmor]

Are mags sizing up with these for touring purposes?


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[Skeeze]

Are mags sizing up with these for touring purposes?


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Personally, I'm not. I'm getting them because I want to compromise as little as possible on the down, so that means my normal boot size. It'll therefore take more work to get them comfortable, though.

[gregL]

. . . but I will probably need a few mm more to be able to walk all day comfortably . . .

Bring 'em in, I'll get you more room.

[wilcox510]

Since this is a moldable shell, which I assume only really molds into a bigger form with the typical process, could you use the Fischer vacuum process and actually make them tighter with molding? I don't know if that even really works with the Fischer stuff..

[LeeLau]

My question is, has anyone tried to punch these yet, or any bootfitters want to speculate how much these can be punched and how well they'll hold it?

They punch well and hold a punch

I'm at about 102 mm last width... can I get 4 mm out of the Ultra XTD 130?

Easily even with just a MemoryFit cook. See previous posts where I discussed that

Are mags sizing up with these for touring purposes?

Sizing the same as other touring boots. Which means + 1 to 0.5 up from dedicated downhill boot

[grskier]

They punch well and hold a punch



Easily even with just a MemoryFit cook. See previous posts where I discussed that



Sizing the same as other touring boots. Which means + 1 to 0.5 up from dedicated downhill boot

Thanks! I did a skim and didn’t see... I’ll take my time this time

[XavierD]

Are mags sizing up with these for touring purposes?


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I'd get them the same size as my alpine boots; 26.5. No need to size up like I do with TLT boots (27.5). I spent a couple days last year in these and found 26.5 to be the right size, although the tight curvature in the Achilles did pry my foot forward cramping my instep. I would probably rework the shape to make them work if the 15deg forward lean didn't disagree with me so much.

I don't however, downsize my Alpine boots the way I used too. My days in a 25.5 are over, and I'm happy skiing a two finger shell fit every day, on account of my high volume and rigid foot. YMMV

[greasyslope]

Well, I took the plunge on a pair of the 120's. Initial impressions are quite positive. The carpet flex seems reasonable and progressive. I stuck them outside to cool down for a bit and that certainly made them feel quite a bit stiffer vs room temp.

I can certainly deform the lower quite a bit, but that is unsurprising for an overlap boot.

I'm far from an expert on bootfitting, but my out of the box fit is damn impressive. I would roughly describe my foot as medium volume with a medium wide forefoot. My dorsiflexion sucks.

I certainly want a little more room in the forefoot. I'm confident I will easily get that room. Heel hold feels amazing, without being too snug anywhere else.

The walk mode is impressive for a fairly real ski boot. It seems that to get full ROM, the upper buckles and powerstrap need to be loosened up, but if the strap isn't super tight, you can just flip open the upper buckles to get a decent ROM for short hikes, etc.

I intend to use this as my everything boot and I am psyched and looking forward to trying these boots out.

[carlh]

Did you compare the 120 vs 130?

Well, I took the plunge on a pair of the 120's. Initial impressions are quite positive. The carpet flex seems reasonable and progressive. I stuck them outside to cool down for a bit and that certainly made them feel quite a bit stiffer vs room temp.

I can certainly deform the lower quite a bit, but that is unsurprising for an overlap boot.

I'm far from an expert on bootfitting, but my out of the box fit is damn impressive. I would roughly describe my foot as medium volume with a medium wide forefoot. My dorsiflexion sucks.

I certainly want a little more room in the forefoot. I'm confident I will easily get that room. Heel hold feels amazing, without being too snug anywhere else.

The walk mode is impressive for a fairly real ski boot. It seems that to get full ROM, the upper buckles and powerstrap need to be loosened up, but if the strap isn't super tight, you can just flip open the upper buckles to get a decent ROM for short hikes, etc.

I intend to use this as my everything boot and I am psyched and looking forward to trying these boots out.

[greasyslope]

Did you compare the 120 vs 130?

Nope. These boots were unavailable in my size (29/29.5) locally, so I had to order them.

I chose theoretical progressivity of flex over max stiffness, but I cannot offer any real world comparison.

[jacob_dbu]

I'm far from an expert on bootfitting, but my out of the box fit is damn impressive. I would roughly describe my foot as medium volume with a medium wide forefoot. My dorsiflexion sucks.

Somewhat off topic, but what kind of angle is considered good vs. bad? Like is it 20 deg, 45 deg, etc?

[auvgeek]

Somewhat off topic, but what kind of angle is considered good vs. bad? Like is it 20 deg, 45 deg, etc?

45 degrees, lol.

IME for active dorsiflexion: <12 limited mobility, 12-20(ish) average-good, >25(ish) hypermobile. But these need to be measured by a PT, not just eyeballed. "Good" vs "bad" is kind of a misnomer. Hypermobility can also mean lack of stability, which is bad also. Big issue when one is very flexible and the other isn't cuz then your running gait gets all messed up.

But I'm not a medical doctor.

[jacob_dbu]

Great info thanks, so the more mobile you are the stiffer the boot then I assume.

[adrenalated]

I'd be interested to hear from other bootfitters, but when I sold boots I never found any correlation between ROM and stiffness of boot. (I'm hypermobile and don't require a particularly stiff boot).
I did find, however, that for people with limited ROM it was important to match the forward lean of the boot to their ROM. If the static forward lean angle of the boot put the person at the limit of their ROM, they would not be able to flex the boot.

[gregL]

I'm at about 102 mm last width... can I get 4 mm out of the Ultra XTD 130?

I'm about 104mm not counting some big bunions, total width 110mm or so. Just cooking them helped but wasn't enough, I punched them quite a bit after following the Memory Fit process. Fit like a glove now.