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  1. #651
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    21,640
    you gotta do the shell fit to check for 9-16mm behind ( a sharpie felt pen is 15mm) the heel of a bare foot in the empty shell to make sure you got the right size boot shell to begin with and then there is the question if its the right shell for your foot

    an intuition liner will not fix having the rong shell

    you want tight the garmont G-fit liners from 15 yars ago were crazy before molding
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  2. #652
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    84
    Just got pro tours and molded for my hawx today and stoked to get em out on the snow. Fixed a lot of the liner irritation I was getting with the original liners, and they feel more substantial for actual skiing.

  3. #653
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    80
    I picked up a pair of the new Hawx Prime XTD 130s with mimic liners, first impressions follow.

    For reference, my feet measure 24.5 but are pretty wide at the forefoot, ~105mm. I have big calves but low-volume heels and ankles, so it's difficult to find boots that have wide cuffs and toe boxes without having sloppy ankle hold. For the past few seasons I've been skiing Nordica Speechmachine 130s inbounds and Salomon Mtn Labs (heavily punched for forefoot and midfoot width) and Atomic Backland Carbons (head-molded shells and intuition liners) in the backcountry, all size 24.5. I tried on the Hawx Ultra (not Prime) XTD in the shop a couple of years ago and it crushed my feet, couldn't even close the lower buckles because the shell was bulging open on the top of my foot.

    The Hawx Prime XTD has the best fit out of the box fit of any boot I've tried, although the Speedmachine is a close second and fits quite similarly. The heel pocket of the Prime is quite a bit snugger than the Mtn Lab or Backland. The Prime toe box is way less tapered than the Mtn Labs; midfoot feels good, but a bit of a pinch across the forefoot after an hour or so of skinning. Based on my experience heat molding the Backlands, I expect that the memory fit process will provide the extra few mm needed.

    The range of motion is obviously much more restrictive than the Backlands, even with tongues in, and fairly similar to the Mtn labs. The Prime XTD flex pattern is nice and progressive (vs. the Mtn Lab, which feels like a brick wall in comparison). I've only taken the new boots on a couple of short tours, so I'll have to provide updated thoughts on performance after a bunch more days, but I'm very optimistic so far. I'll likely mold shells and liners before skiing them again, so it will be interesting to see if the Mimic liner lives up to the hype.

    Weights for those interested:
    Atomix Hawx Prime XTD, 24.5: 1560 grams per boot, everything stock
    Salomon Mtn Lab, 24.5 (w/ Intuition Pro Tour liner): 1402 grams
    Atomic Backland Carbon, 24.5 (tongues included; w/ Intuition Pro Tour Liner and Booster Strap): 1188 grams

  4. #654
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    29
    I've had the XTD 130 18/19, 19/20 and just got the new 20/21. I feel like ill spend most of my season in the new boot, maybe use last years for longer tours in the spring with the lighter liner.
    Im hoping the new liner fixes the few gripes I had with the older boots and works as my 1 boot quiver.

  5. #655
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    6,930
    If anyone is ditching one of the lighter liners from and older pair of size 26 XTD's I might be interested if the price is right.

  6. #656
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by eSock View Post
    Just got pro tours and molded for my hawx today and stoked to get em out on the snow. Fixed a lot of the liner irritation I was getting with the original liners, and they feel more substantial for actual skiing.
    Took em out this weekend and the irritation was mostly eliminated but a new issue reared it's ugly head: the boots were soggy af, felt like I was walking underwater half the day. At the car, after taking em off and taking the liners out I turned the boots over and about quarter cup of water spilled out. Gotta figure out why the boots were leaking like a sieve. I'm wondering if the bigger liners/reheating them blew out the boots too much and now they can't get a good seal.

  7. #657
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    126
    Quote Originally Posted by eSock View Post
    Took em out this weekend and the irritation was mostly eliminated but a new issue reared it's ugly head: the boots were soggy af, felt like I was walking underwater half the day. At the car, after taking em off and taking the liners out I turned the boots over and about quarter cup of water spilled out. Gotta figure out why the boots were leaking like a sieve. I'm wondering if the bigger liners/reheating them blew out the boots too much and now they can't get a good seal.
    Have you molded the shells? What year version do you have?

  8. #658
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    SLC, UT
    Posts
    20
    Anyone mold their mimic liners without the new tools they are suggesting you use (sock & specific toe cap)? Every shop in SLC that has the new bits is charging about $100 just for a liner mold....

  9. #659
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    126
    Quote Originally Posted by bthomson22 View Post
    Anyone mold their mimic liners without the new tools they are suggesting you use (sock & specific toe cap)? Every shop in SLC that has the new bits is charging about $100 just for a liner mold....
    Have you tried Black Diamond in Millcreek? I was in there about a year ago and I think they offered to to an Atomic mold for $50

  10. #660
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Salzburg, Austria
    Posts
    69
    A Mimic liner will require our process and tools to get the job done in order to prevent any fit or quality issues from arising. The fitting process itself is pretty straight forward, but rather specific in order to give you the best results. If our process isn't followed or the wrong tools are used, then it can lead to issues (which is true for basically any high-end liner customization process). Our oven will need to be used at the temperature & duration we specify- normal heat stacks or hot air blowers aren't good enough because they heat from the inside out and the real Mimic material is near the outside. We make toe caps, liner socks, and a shoe horn to make the liner installation and you stepping into the boot go as smoothly & as possible. Without them (or exact substitutes) there will be risks during the fitting process. So if shops don't have the right tools for the job, then it will most likely lead to a sub-par result and you'll be pretty bummed about that. We've done a lot of training for retailers that have brought Mimic in, so at least you'll know that the shops which have the tools will do it right and you'll have an awesome fitting boot when it's all said and done.

  11. #661
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    80
    My Hawx Prime XTDs fit great but need some more room at the 5th met head. It's tricky to visit a bootfitter right now, is it possible/advisable to just use a heat gun and IR thermometer to heat the shell while wearing the boots in order to create some extra room?

  12. #662
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bellevue
    Posts
    5,680
    I'm looking at these as an option for a touring boot, is the new liner worth it for someone who's unlikely to use this as an inbounds boot? I am used to lacing up my liners before putting my boots on and likely would continue to do that with these in case that carries any weight.
    The sizing is also a slight concern since I don't know how easy it is to go to the local shop and try these on at the moment. I assume there's no difference between this year's and last year's?

  13. #663
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,765
    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    I'm looking at these as an option for a touring boot, is the new liner worth it for someone who's unlikely to use this as an inbounds boot? I am used to lacing up my liners before putting my boots on and likely would continue to do that with these in case that carries any weight.
    The sizing is also a slight concern since I don't know how easy it is to go to the local shop and try these on at the moment. I assume there's no difference between this year's and last year's?
    The difference is the Mimic liner for '20-'21. It's heavier, probably more comfortable, and molds well to the shell interior so less slippage, etc. If you only intend to tour in the boot the old model is about 135 grams lighter; if you intend to throw the liner away you may be able to get the old model for substantially less money.

    Our shop is local to you, but we are operating at 25% capacity and bootfits are nominally "by appointment only." Chances are pretty good of getting a walk-in spot midweek, however, it just depends on the day.

  14. #664
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Golden
    Posts
    303
    Interesting as my foot is similar. However, myself, and everyone I’ve ever fit boots for, feels that the Mtn Lab has a massive ankle. How did you find the ankle retention in the Mtn lab?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jongle View Post
    I picked up a pair of the new Hawx Prime XTD 130s with mimic liners, first impressions follow.

    For reference, my feet measure 24.5 but are pretty wide at the forefoot, ~105mm. I have big calves but low-volume heels and ankles, so it's difficult to find boots that have wide cuffs and toe boxes without having sloppy ankle hold. For the past few seasons I've been skiing Nordica Speechmachine 130s inbounds and Salomon Mtn Labs (heavily punched for forefoot and midfoot width) and Atomic Backland Carbons (head-molded shells and intuition liners) in the backcountry, all size 24.5. I tried on the Hawx Ultra (not Prime) XTD in the shop a couple of years ago and it crushed my feet, couldn't even close the lower buckles because the shell was bulging open on the top of my foot.

    The Hawx Prime XTD has the best fit out of the box fit of any boot I've tried, although the Speedmachine is a close second and fits quite similarly. The heel pocket of the Prime is quite a bit snugger than the Mtn Lab or Backland. The Prime toe box is way less tapered than the Mtn Labs; midfoot feels good, but a bit of a pinch across the forefoot after an hour or so of skinning. Based on my experience heat molding the Backlands, I expect that the memory fit process will provide the extra few mm needed.

    The range of motion is obviously much more restrictive than the Backlands, even with tongues in, and fairly similar to the Mtn labs. The Prime XTD flex pattern is nice and progressive (vs. the Mtn Lab, which feels like a brick wall in comparison). I've only taken the new boots on a couple of short tours, so I'll have to provide updated thoughts on performance after a bunch more days, but I'm very optimistic so far. I'll likely mold shells and liners before skiing them again, so it will be interesting to see if the Mimic liner lives up to the hype.

    Weights for those interested:
    Atomix Hawx Prime XTD, 24.5: 1560 grams per boot, everything stock
    Salomon Mtn Lab, 24.5 (w/ Intuition Pro Tour liner): 1402 grams
    Atomic Backland Carbon, 24.5 (tongues included; w/ Intuition Pro Tour Liner and Booster Strap): 1188 grams

  15. #665
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBC View Post
    Interesting as my foot is similar. However, myself, and everyone I’ve ever fit boots for, feels that the Mtn Lab has a massive ankle. How did you find the ankle retention in the Mtn lab?
    I was able to get decent retention in the Mtn Lab after adding some extra padding around the ankles and spacers under the liners, but it was never ideal.

    Back when I bought the Mtn Lab I could only compare it with a couple of other boots that were available in a size 24 (Scarpa Maestrale RS and Hawx Ultra XTD), and the Mtn Lab seemed like it would take the least work to fit to my feet. I got a couple of great seasons out of it but I think the Prime XTD is going to ski much better.

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