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  1. #201
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedic84 View Post
    I have the same issue with the toes. 26.5 fits perfect except my big toe is just barely touching the front. The 27.5 lets my heel slip and feels like it flexes differently. Fitter said we could punch the toe but I thought I saw somewhere on here that I would lose the ability to use them in alpine bindings.
    Assuming you have good ankle and heel hold and are using a decent footbed, most experienced skiers want to be "just barely touching the front" in a new boot. As for punching the toe, you can almost always add 5-6mm of toe length without interfering with the function of an "alpine" binding (though your should check for contact anywhere other than the sole). Remember that your choices for alpine bindings are limited by the non-replaceable WTR sole.

  2. #202
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    Take my example with a grain of salt (I have no idea what sort of fit you are used to) but I measure out at 27.6 on a Brannock and have the 26.5 Ultra XTD. Definitely touching the toes on both feet when the boot was new, but the ankle fit on the boot is so snug (I also have a custom footbed in place) that I get no fore-aft movement at all, even when skinning, and the fit has been perfect (about 11 days so far, about half touring).

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    As for the toe buckle, IMO it is longer than necessary and sticks up too high off the shell (you'll notice this as soon as you boot a few hundred feet in crust). You can solve the problem by clipping off the forward part of the cage and grinding it smooth, then dremeling divots where the buckle contacts the steel base so it lies lower.
    Atomic probably should have reversed that buckle so the lever closes to the inside and on top of the toe

    edit; i read your review and you mention as such ... good review !
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  4. #204
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Austin, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Take my example with a grain of salt (I have no idea what sort of fit you are used to) but I measure out at 27.6 on a Brannock and have the 26.5 Ultra XTD. Definitely touching the toes on both feet when the boot was new, but the ankle fit on the boot is so snug (I also have a custom footbed in place) that I get no fore-aft movement at all, even when skinning, and the fit has been perfect (about 11 days so far, about half touring).
    That seems like a pretty tight fit. I know you have much more experience than I do, but I measure about the same on a brannock and I only have about 15mm of space in a shell fit on the 27.5.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejongiest View Post
    That seems like a pretty tight fit. I know you have much more experience than I do, but I measure about the same on a brannock and I only have about 15mm of space in a shell fit on the 27.5.
    It is what it is. Forefoot shape (like a blunt, square shape in a pointed shell) can have an effect, as can heel spurs, etc. Normally I would expect someone who measures out at a 27.5 on a Brannock to have 22-23mm of space when shellfit in a 27.5 shell. I probably have 11-12mm in the 26.5 Hawx Ultra. The critical thing is to lock in your midfoot so you don't slide - if you succeed in this you can be right at the front of the boot (assuming you don't spend all day skiing backseat or dropping 20 footers to wheelie, etc.) - this applies to pretty much anyone trying to downsize. If you have a sloppy fit in the midfoot/ankle/heel you can be in a much bigger shell and still slam your toes.

  6. #206
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    Jan 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    The critical thing is to lock in your midfoot so you don't slide - if you succeed in this you can be right at the front of the boot (assuming you don't spend all day skiing backseat or dropping 20 footers to wheelie, etc.) - this applies to pretty much anyone trying to downsize. If you have a sloppy fit in the midfoot/ankle/heel you can be in a much bigger shell and still slam your toes.
    If I can get a good heel/midfoot lock in a "normal" size, then is there any other benefit of downsizing?

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejongiest View Post
    If I can get a good heel/midfoot lock in a "normal" size, then is there any other benefit of downsizing?
    Do you consider a "normal" size to be the Mondopoint size you measure? Just because that's what your foot measures doesn't mean you have to ski that size boot. For three different skiers with the exact same foot, there could conceivably be at least three different ways to fit them, but in general advanced to expert level skiers choose to go 1/2 to a full size smaller than their Mondopoint length. Why?

    Any time you can get the shell of the boot closer to your foot there is an advantage in response, leverage, and snow feel. It's also lighter and there is less torque on your leg in a twisting fall. Dropping a size usually means the shell is also 2mm narrower and generally lower in volume, not just a centimeter shorter. It also usually means more work needs to be done by the bootfitter to make the fit acceptable. Whether a given skier wants, needs or is willing to go through the hassle of this process is the hardest thing to judge both for the skier and the bootfitter.

    Dropping a size or more isn't for the faint of heart or those who don't have access to bootfitting services. Those who do so should accept that there will be multiple days of discomfort while the boots pack out and most likely multiple trips to the bootfitter to dial the fit in.

  8. #208
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    77
    This is a great point. An advanced skier will almost always benefit from downsizing from their measured mondopoint as long as they are willing to use foot support and work with a good fitter (and ski more than a couple weeks a year). you can fit an AT boot like your alpine shell as long as your heel and ankle are secure. An exception would be if youíre frequently touring in sub zero temps. Also intuitions are worth every penny in a tight shell fit

  9. #209
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    PNW
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    412
    How is the fit of the Hawx relative to the Backland Carbon? I'm in a 26.5 that's pretty snug.

    The Hawx seems like a great boot to pair up with a Marker King Pin and wider ski.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco View Post
    How is the fit of the Hawx relative to the Backland Carbon?
    I'm in a 26.5 in both boots. The Hawx Ultra XTD is very slightly longer and slightly higher in volume, you should take the same size.

  11. #211
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    May 2012
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    Thanks Greg!

  12. #212
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    Jan 2014
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    Swiss alps
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    459
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Do you consider a "normal" size to be the Mondopoint size you measure? Just because that's what your foot measures doesn't mean you have to ski that size boot. For three different skiers with the exact same foot, there could conceivably be at least three different ways to fit them, but in general advanced to expert level skiers choose to go 1/2 to a full size smaller than their Mondopoint length. Why?

    Any time you can get the shell of the boot closer to your foot there is an advantage in response, leverage, and snow feel. It's also lighter and there is less torque on your leg in a twisting fall. Dropping a size usually means the shell is also 2mm narrower and generally lower in volume, not just a centimeter shorter. It also usually means more work needs to be done by the bootfitter to make the fit acceptable. Whether a given skier wants, needs or is willing to go through the hassle of this process is the hardest thing to judge both for the skier and the bootfitter.

    Dropping a size or more isn't for the faint of heart or those who don't have access to bootfitting services. Those who do so should accept that there will be multiple days of discomfort while the boots pack out and most likely multiple trips to the bootfitter to dial the fit in.
    ^^ solid info right there. thnx

  13. #213
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    748

    Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD aka Hawk Extended aka HawX

    Greg, Lee,

    Either of you got any hands on (feet in?) with 120?
    Thoughts vs 130?

    I not a huge guy, dont get rowdy in BC, not getting any younger and starting to think Iíd go 120 not 130 in RXís for resort boot if buying again.

    Seems 120 all Iíd need/want in the XTD, weight diff is not material, price is nicer, and PU cuff might be a benefit.

  14. #214
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    Haven't seen a 120 XTD, but the fit should be identical - and the PU cuff may have a more progressive flex. Let us know.

  15. #215
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    The 120 XTD shell will fit the same. The liner is much higher volume however, giving a tighter fit. The paper thin liner in the 130 doesn't take up much space. The 120 should fit pretty close to the Ultra 120/130. Liner is similar, but with a soft spot behind the ankle to enable rear ROM.

  16. #216
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    Feb 2005
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    Matt Manser said it pretty well in the NS thread. 120 should be fine for almost everyone. 130 is all bells and whistles; kind of almost a dentist boot. 120 is priced way better

  17. #217
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    2,307
    But it goes to 11...


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  18. #218
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    234
    However, didnít atomic add a bunch of weight to the liner of the 120 to make it more of an inbound boot? If thatís true, the two donít seem to be competitors.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  19. #219
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
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    3,015
    Anybody used these in alpine clamps? How the plastic wear?
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by rludes025 View Post
    Anybody used these in alpine clamps? How the plastic wear?
    I dunno, but definitely something to watch for. Apparently it doesn’t play well in Marker SoleID bindings.

  21. #221
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Summit Park UT
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    859
    This may seem like a small silly thing, but when trying these on in the shop (with Intuition liners) , in tour mode the cuff buckles didn't seem to really want to stay open. They kept trying to close, which limited the cuff range of motion. I really like the cuff buckle on my Salomon MTN Labs which sort of locks in the open position to prevent this. Anyone know of some similar sized buckles that lock open like the MTN lab buckles that you could swap these out with (the MTN Lab buckles are way too big)?

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilcox510 View Post
    This may seem like a small silly thing, but when trying these on in the shop (with Intuition liners) , in tour mode the cuff buckles didn't seem to really want to stay open. They kept trying to close, which limited the cuff range of motion. I really like the cuff buckle on my Salomon MTN Labs which sort of locks in the open position to prevent this. Anyone know of some similar sized buckles that lock open like the MTN lab buckles that you could swap these out with (the MTN Lab buckles are way too big)?
    Yes, it would be nice if they stayed open. In the meantime I leave the bales out of the ladders completely (or just hook the lower one in the silver clip) and pull my pants over them to keep them from flapping. Works fine.

  23. #223
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Vancouver BC
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    2,731
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Matt Manser said it pretty well in the NS thread. 120 should be fine for almost everyone. 130 is all bells and whistles; kind of almost a dentist boot. 120 is priced way better
    Can confirm, dentist friend just picked up a pair of 130's to replace his Zero G Guide Pros from last year that he could never get perfectly dialed. Tom approves .

  24. #224
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Seattle
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    352
    Is the 120 noticeably softer than the 130? I tried on the 130s at the shop and they felt like a good stiffness but were a size too small. If I order the 120s I save $100 but can't try them on and 130s are out of stock in my size right now (28.5, want to buy local -through Evo for fitting). I could see myself adding a set of powerwraps to the 130s for better ankle fit and more stiffness inbounds.
    I am leaning 130 because I am 6'3" 200lbs and will ski these as my only boot and I like to go fast and jump off (small) things both inbounds and in the BC. I am in spectres now and they are way too soft in anything other than blower pow or smooth corn.

  25. #225
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Calgary
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    Iíve tried both 120 and 130. I weigh 190lbs and found quite a difference in flex between the two in the shop. The 130 I find to be a stiff boot, the 120 maybe close to, if not less than the Freetour 130s.

    Just checked Evo and they list a 200g difference between the two, almost all liner I assume.

    BTW, for me the small circumference of the stiff Grilamid lowers makes them very uncomfortable to get into but once theyíre on, Iím finding them to be the smallest volume of any of this class of boot, excellent heel hold.

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