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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Visually it looks the same. After removing the forefoot buckle one then has to crank the 2nd buckle quite a bit in ski mode to get a good ski fit. Cranking that buckle visually shifts the overlap a bit (not much but moreso then the other boot where all the buckles are left on the forefoot).

    So in cold weather I would suspect that the forefoot buckle boot mod would mean ingress of snow and moisture. It hasn't been the conditions to know if that would occur with the Hawk Ultra Extended. But if it does I would resort to the old Lange trick of duct tape at forefoot gasket
    This was the answer to a similar question over on Newschoolers:

    "From an actual performance standpoint, 4-buckles does hold the shell together better and it allows for better fine tuning of the lower shell fit. Part of what allows our light weight shell to ski as well as it does is having 2 shell buckles holding the shell together. As soon as you remove the toe buckle, the overlap will be more free to move and twist as you ski. This will lead to a noticeable reduction in power transfer and potentially wetter feet."

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gepeto View Post
    fwiw; super informative thread by knowledgables - did the 1stgen waymaker and found it soft and lacking lateral stability (live fit?). I could make the walk mode toggle pop with heavy impact too.

    I have 27.5 hawxultra130 still in the box and won't put any effort into them as the xtd looks like it may be a winner.

    I too am between sizes - closer to 1 finger in the 27.5 (hawxultra). Wicked tight dry fit with the stock liner and was considering zipfit. Gonna be nice to watch you'all tear it down first. First impression was this shell's (lack of) thickness would make it cold. (edit: 2funky says otherwise)

    Other than tightening the dam, the 1st buckle is useless to me. Am I to infer that some of you go without the buckle? And you do this for weight savings?

    I've re-read the above a few times - is there more than one iteration of the 17/18 boot with walk mode?

    I'm on Atomic's VIP program and won't be able to get the boot until after aug15 and even that is a bit tenuous every year but, can't beat the cost.
    Re 1st buckle. People weight weenie this boot. I personally won't but enough will ask that I felt it best to get the info first hand.

    If you take a look at the Wildsnow article there's quite a few iterations of the boot

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Holy shit thats my right foot exactly ...even the same color!
    Hey Lee and XXX'er, deal me in!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #54
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    in the trench
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    Skiers badge of honour. Chics dig bunions........

  5. #55
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    AZN's are known for the wide flat forefoot!
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  6. #56
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    [QUOTE=gregL;4952444]Hey Lee and XXX'er, deal me in!

    You and XXX-ers my azn brothers

  7. #57
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    Lee aren't your people from the straits of Malacca ?

    The Peranakan who referred to themselves Baba-Nyonya
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #58
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    Feb 2005
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    A few more days on this boot and some thoughts after mostly touring and some inbounds. Tried the Vulcan and Mountain Lab on one foot and the Hawk Ultra Extended on the other foot at the same time.

    It's a LIMITED conclusion because an opinion after just 10 days is not an informed opinion IMO. Lets base this on me skiing with the Vulcan with tongue inbounds and the Vulcan without tongue touring. The Atomic, Salomon and Dynafit boots were all skied with Intuition liners. I did also ski all the boots with the stock liners but lets just have these preliminary impressions with the same liners.

    In terms of skiing from best to worst
    - Hawk Extended , Salomon/Vulcan (tied)

    In terms of touring from best to worst
    - Vulcan, Hawk Extended , Salomon

    More on the skiing aspects follows in a stream of consciousness. A good test was in chopped up 10cms of fresh snow on 20cms of previous storm snow from a couple of days ago. Ie some soft snow with variability with flat light where I had the Hawk Extended on Prior Overlords 188 mounted with Beast 16s and pointed downslope through some traverse lines and then into Blackcomb Glacier. Trying to stay centred on the skis and letting the boots do their thing I was jostled around but could maintain fore/aft stability. When I had to turn I could get low and lean laterally into the Hawk Extended and let them do their thing; again maintaining stability but this time on the sideways plane.

    On both the Vulcans and the Mtn Labs I would not have that same level of either stability or hit-absorption but for different reasons. The Vulcans are not a progressive boot with the tongue and tend to hit a firm stop in a jarring fashion so particularly on fore-aft hits you will get bucked around. Without the tongue the Vulcan will fold forward on fore/aft hits. The Salomon Mtn Lab is a bit softer fore-aft so also will get fold on the fore/aft hits. Where all these boots perform well is with respect to lateral stability where they reward the more modern style of driving skis on their natural arc as opposed to driving from the tips. Having said that, real world skiing conditions sometimes dictates imperfect snow. Coupled with less than Hoji-like reflexes some skiers (ie me) require that fore/aft support crutch and that's where the Atomic Hawk Ultra XTD offers that small but noticeable benefit. I'd expect that bigger skiers (especially those who like to huck or who partake in big hits) will really appreciate the added stiffness and progression of the Hawk Extended boot.

    Not much to add in the touring aspect. Since I tour in the Vulcan without the tongue I threw that into the mix accordingly. The Vulcan (without tongue) is noticeably better (more free) in touring stride then the Atomic. The Atomic Hawk Extended is noticeably better in touring stride then the Salomon Mtn Lab. All three boots bootpack just fine. It's noticeable on lower angle skintracks in particular where one gets glide and kick with the Dynafit and Atomic but not the Mtn Lab. It's also noticeable on higher angle skintracks where I have to engage heel lifters more often with the Mtn Lab but not either the Hawk Extended or Vulcan

    I'm 160lbs. Bigger more aggressive skiers will have different impressions. A reminder that all AT boots are compromises. With the entry of the Atomic Hawk Extended one will have many more choices to make without having to compromise as much








  9. #59
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    Oct 2003
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    excellent!
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  10. #60
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    Sep 2006
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    Thanks Lee. They seem well worth trying for fit.

  11. #61
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    Nov 2007
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    Calgary
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    Great write up Lee. How is the fit and progressiveness in flex compared to the beast (a model no one seems to talk about)? What about the tour mode?

    Thanks!

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by spin2win View Post
    Great write up Lee. How is the fit and progressiveness in flex compared to the beast (a model no one seems to talk about)? What about the tour mode?

    Thanks!
    Khion is reviewed here https://www.tetongravity.com/story/ge...t-teton-tested

    Prelim instinct is Khion is tied with Atomic for ski quality but far behind in touring. Khion is behind the Mtn Lab in my thought experiment above

  13. #63
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    Mar 2011
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    Squamish, BC
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    pretty much all of your observations are in line with my hopes for this boot. thanks for the insight Lee. I particularly like the notes vs Vulcan, as that is my (and seemingly everybody at W/B's) everyday boot. Stoked!

  14. #64
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    Nov 2010
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    Good prelim review. Thanks.
    Any specific thoughts on performance vs boots on the heavier end of the spectrum too (e.g freetour, zero g, cochise)?

  15. #65
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    Dec 2005
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    183
    best guess on where the new Maestrale RS fits in this equation? I'd guess somewhere closer to the Vulcan than the Hawk in touring motion. Big unknown is where the new Scarpa fits in terms of downhill performance?

    so many awesome options, tough to figure out where each fits on the touring/skiing continuum. What a sweet 1st world problem to have.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TG View Post
    best guess on where the new Maestrale RS fits in this equation? I'd guess somewhere closer to the Vulcan than the Hawk in touring motion. Big unknown is where the new Scarpa fits in terms of downhill performance?

    so many awesome options, tough to figure out where each fits on the touring/skiing continuum. What a sweet 1st world problem to have.
    No idea. Scarpa recently eviscerated NA marketing and is short on samples. Hate to guess on something like that

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcpnz View Post
    Good prelim review. Thanks.
    Any specific thoughts on performance vs boots on the heavier end of the spectrum too (e.g freetour, zero g, cochise)?
    Cochise would be very close in skiing performance FOR MY SIZE AND WEIGHT. Wouldn't come close to touring as well.

    ZeroG would be not quite as good touring or downhill but I had limited days.

    Not familiar with the Freetour

    Recall I am 75kgs. I strongly suspect a bigger more aggro skier would push the bigger boots harder and find the nuances. So when I say the Hawk Ultra Extended is tied with another boot that's at my weight

  18. #68
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judo Chop! View Post
    pretty much all of your observations are in line with my hopes for this boot. thanks for the insight Lee. I particularly like the notes vs Vulcan, as that is my (and seemingly everybody at W/B's) everyday boot. Stoked!
    It's still mindblowing how Dynafit basically orphaned the Vulcan for the Khion Beast. Hope they go ahead with the Hoji Vulcan 2.0. Pretty amazing that the Vulcan, a 5 year old boot, is still the Holy Grail benchmark.

    The Euros are so freaking retarded about their light weight weenieness though so who knows?

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    No idea. Scarpa recently eviscerated NA marketing and is short on samples. Hate to guess on something like that
    I skied the RS and Hawx at the Bachelor demo and felt like they were on par. If anything the RS felt a little stiffer, but it's a bit hard to say for sure. The Vulcan still feels stiffer than both of them to me, but that could be it's total lack of progressive flex more than anything else.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    It's still mindblowing how Dynafit basically orphaned the Vulcan for the Khion Beast. Hope they go ahead with the Hoji Vulcan 2.0. Pretty amazing that the Vulcan, a 5 year old boot, is still the Holy Grail benchmark.

    The Euros are so freaking retarded about their light weight weenieness though so who knows?
    people are saying this years darker green Vulcans which were suposed to have an FG cuff are showing up with a carbon cuff ?

    didn't fede say nobody in yurp thinks the Vulcan skis worth a damn?

    I think Dynafit could still sell every vulcan they make, just keep it simple with that same POS liner and let everyone go see their intuition dealer

    I don't think the boot is dead it was the beast and Khion that were still born ... but who knew ?

    For a perfect fit I can deal with stiffer than fuck ...the dude abides
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    people are saying this years darker green Vulcans which were suposed to have an FG cuff are showing up with a carbon cuff ?

    didn't fede say nobody in yurp thinks the Vulcan skis worth a damn?

    I think Dynafit could still sell every vulcan they make, just keep it simple with that same POS liner and let everyone go see their intuition dealer

    I don't think the boot is dead it was the beast and Khion that were still born ... but who knew ?

    For a perfect fit I can deal with stiffer than fuck ...the dude abides
    Maybe I'm just being pessimistic. I don't know for sure if the Vulcan will continue for next year. I'll ask around. I've hoarded a couple of pairs for myself just in case

  22. #72
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    And I upgraded on the advice/recommendation of some pedantic gear junky
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #73
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    Lee and Sam. My conclusion from your brief testing is that the hawk xtd skins and skis better than the zero g for a 155 lb dude. And that the maestrale RS is on par with the hawk xtd in both ascent and descent categories. Is that accurate?
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by samthaman View Post
    I skied the RS and Hawx at the Bachelor demo and felt like they were on par. If anything the RS felt a little stiffer, but it's a bit hard to say for sure. The Vulcan still feels stiffer than both of them to me, but that could be it's total lack of progressive flex more than anything else.
    I'm assuming this is the RS2, not the old RS? The old RS was definitely quite a bit softer than the Vulcan.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    meager stoke

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    I'm assuming this is the RS2, not the old RS? The old RS was definitely quite a bit softer than the Vulcan.
    Yeah, the old RS was pretty equivalent to a Mercury. Nowhere near as stiff as a Vulcan. Much more progressive, though.

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