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  1. #276
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    9,300ft
    Posts
    17,723
    I knew one of the biggest shops used to say the first step to loving a Vulcan was throwing away the line
    It is what I had to do
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  2. #277
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,036
    Yeah so in Canada the boot/liner list price would be around 1300$

    It might be interesting to run a poll on how many people used the stock Dynafit liner and how many had to throw it away?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #278
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    3,018
    Someone should buy my 25.5 130's in gear swap
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  4. #279
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Reno
    Posts
    433
    So does anyone know how much length expansion is available from molding the shells?

  5. #280
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,524
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Yeah so in Canada the boot/liner list price would be around 1300$

    It might be interesting to run a poll on how many people used the stock Dynafit liner and how many had to throw it away?
    good call xxx'er. and please state size ... i'm a 26 and would love to hoard all the unused merv/vulcan liners i can get. I'll crowdfund for shipping costs. lol. I find them useful for the long big vert heavy pack spring summer missions where I don't want my good ones to pack out.
    Master of mediocrity.

  6. #281
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
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    17,723
    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    good call xxx'er. and please state size ... i'm a 26 and would love to hoard all the unused merv/vulcan liners i can get. I'll crowdfund for shipping costs. lol. I find them useful for the long big vert heavy pack spring summer missions where I don't want my good ones to pack out.
    I know a shop that used to literally have a trailer full of new Vulc/Merc take-offs. It was in Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  7. #282
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,703
    I used my TLT6 liners for (I think) two tours before putting a Pro-tour in.

    Got my XTDs out for a short tour and was impressed by the stiffness, having come from a boot with the flex-resistance of a cooked egg noodle. I didn't even bother with the stock liner, I put the liners from my first-year Freedom SL in it. Kind of a protour/luxury hybrid. Fit well for my skinny ankle/wide forefoot.
    "It need not be fun to be fun." - Big Steve

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  8. #283
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by Bean View Post
    I used my TLT6 liners for (I think) two tours before putting a Pro-tour in.

    Got my XTDs out for a short tour and was impressed by the stiffness, having come from a boot with the flex-resistance of a cooked egg noodle. I didn't even bother with the stock liner, I put the liners from my first-year Freedom SL in it. Kind of a protour/luxury hybrid. Fit well for my skinny ankle/wide forefoot.
    Which XTD? I feel like it matters, because the liners in the XTD 120 seem great to me, but I’ve never tried on an XTD 130 with it’s lighter liner

  9. #284
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,703
    ^130. I used the stock liner to see how the boot fit at the shop then swapped in the intuition when I got them home. They felt good on snow as-is so I'm really looking forward to the fit post-mold.
    "It need not be fun to be fun." - Big Steve

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  10. #285
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    489
    Rludes - I can't believe nobody is buying those!

    First day of riding lifts in the 120's. Good conditions, but enough variability to give them a little test. So far, I am psyched. I wasn't pushing too hard, but I'm a fairly large human (6'2.5"/225 lbs) and I thought they skied really well.
    I probably need to do a little more liner surgery on the plastic on the tongue, since that digs into my big f'ed up ankles a bit, but a very promising start!
    I am skiing them with Tectons on 193 Blizzard Gunsmokes, right now.

  11. #286
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    flat lands
    Posts
    856
    Day one on my 130's...the details: 27.5 shell to jam my 11.5 low instep Morton toe, sixth toe beat up feet into. I have about 3/4 finger in shell length to work with. Skinny calves, med to low volume ankles. 5-11 175lb, won't tolerate anything less than a full performance/race style fit...old habits

    Rambling notes:

    Setup as follows, Shell and liner heat fit yesterday using new Intuition Pro Wraps 28.0 (which are actually a hair short for me). Lots of padding on sixth toe, toe caps with additional padding. After the heat fit and taking the near castrating additional padding off things felt pretty good.

    Opted to use my old and more packed out intuitions on day one...these are also 28's but I have cut the toe box open with a slit to allow breathing room for my long 2nd toe.

    Conditions: Jackson, frozen crud with a hair of dust and death cookie groomers and a tiny bit of dust on crust here and there. 107 waist rock skis , not exactly ideal for the conditions

    Initial observations and goal: to have a one boot quiver vs the Zero G/ Spyne110 setup form last year. For my feet the Zero G is a bit boxy and these were better for me all around. I would say they were on par with my fit on the Spynes which was spot on. With Intuiitions the flex was a bit less progressive than the Spynes with a shorter slightly more wall like feel... this led me to think they were a bit stiffer than the 110 K2's but as the day wore on I realized it was a bit softer. I could bottom them on the wall but plan on putting the new/stiffer , tighter fitting liners in tommorow and that will probably change that a bit. Vs the Guides I would say a fair amount stiffer and again a shorter flex pattern. Resort performance was pretty impressive, I would say darn close to my Spynes. I would say I'm 90 percent convinced they will be able to cross over 100% that said I prefer a slightly softer boot than most.

    I think my 110 resort boots with wrap liners end up about 130 on the "normal" scale...whatever that is. These boots come darn close to that and are very responsive. In a perfect world I would like a bit longer more progressive flex profile closer to my alpine boots but didn't feel I gave up much because of that difference. In short for a "backcountry boot" they rip vs anything else I have tried and I was able to get a good tight fit vs anything Dynafit or Scarpa which absolutly hate my feet. If your not into super stiff double sheets of metal in your skis these will totally work at the resort. If you like super stiff stuff you'll give up a bit but are still a pretty darn good high performance option.

    In short I was impressed and really happy with them. I anticipate a bit more performance with the new liners and the booster straps I installed tonight.

    The stock liners are a joke IMO...I couldn't imagine using them.

  12. #287
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    804
    Quote Originally Posted by wstdeep View Post
    The stock liners are a joke IMO...I couldn't imagine using them.
    Soooo people should just buy the 120s and intuitions and save the money? Plus the 120 liner adds a bit of progressiveness and could be used in the resort.

  13. #288
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    flat lands
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by thejongiest View Post
    Soooo people should just buy the 120s and intuitions and save the money? Plus the 120 liner adds a bit of progressiveness and could be used in the resort.
    Never tried the 120 liners as I was committed to Intutions from the start. I guess I could see using the 130 liners if you had a perfect fit with them but there is not much in the way of cushion and the material grabs your sock going in and out making that process much tougher in a boot that is already a bit tough to wiggle into.

  14. #289
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
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    So what did we decide the difference was between the 120 and 130 shell?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  15. #290
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    749

    Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD aka Hawk Extended aka HawX

    Color and cuff material I believe.
    Cuff on 120 is PU to make it flex softer.
    Internet theory might suggest PU could be more progressive or have better rebound but I havenít read of anyone testing both boots let alone one of each on different feet.

    Seems most notable differences are liner, color and $100

    Suggest reading the newschoolers thread if you havent already. Good info there from the designer

  16. #291
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
    Posts
    10,435
    Quote Originally Posted by dcpnz View Post
    Color and cuff material I believe.
    Cuff on 120 is PU to make it flex softer.
    Internet theory might suggest PU could be more progressive or have better rebound but I havenít read of anyone testing both boots let alone one of each on different feet.

    Seems most notable differences are liner, color and $100

    Suggest reading the newschoolers thread if you havent already. Good info there from the designer
    I haven't read it yet but I thought Blister posted something about this yesterday.

    ETA
    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...-ultra-xtd-120

  17. #292
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,036
    Re that blister review:

    "But what if you want to go on long tours and donít mind giving up some of that downhill performance?

    You have two options:

    (1) You can buy the XTD 130 instead, and get a stiffer shell with a lighter liner. OrÖ

    (2) You could buy a pair of Intuition Pro Tours (or another similar liner) for the XTD 120, and swap out the liner depending on whether youíre skiing inbounds or going on a ski tour.

    Personally, Iím more intrigued by that last option. "

    I was talking to a buddy this weekend who went this^^ route on his hawks, size up a little on the shells and go Intuition right away ...he seems very happy. I'm not gona run right out and buy them but that moulding of the boot shell technology is intriguing and i'm glad its there at least for the future
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #293
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    749
    I don't really get the blister review likening the 130xtd liner to a pro tour.
    The xtd liner I tried was very thin, flimsy and folded up trying to put boot on. Its much more akin to palau liners from dynafit boots IMO.
    My pro tour from a few years ago are much thicker and stiffer. I would think you'd need to consider sizing up just to fit one in.
    Maybe newer lv protours are much different??

  19. #294
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
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    @dcpnz Obviously one wants to know if the production 130XTD liner is equivelent to a Pro Tour... but I also want to know if the 120XTD liner is going to be the equivalent of a Pro Tongue?

    With the PU cuff only increasing boot weight 3%, its probably a matter of stiffness vs flex characteristics... but does the PU cuff affect fitting vs grillamid?

    If the PU cuff fits as well, a 120XTD with Power Wrap paired with a Pro Tour would be a one boot quiver...
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  20. #295
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    489
    ^The 120 liner seems like a decent liner to me, but it is quite different from a Pro Tongue. Take a look at the pics of the stock liner, and many differences in construction will be apparent. They definitely feel quite different.

    I have tried on the boots with my Pro Tongues which were previously used in a Tecnica Cochise. The Pro Tongues take up a lot more volume, as in I can barely buckle the boots, while I am relatively close to running out of buckle with the stock ones. The Pro Tongues also feel much stiffer at room temp, but some of this may also be because of the snug fit?

    I will likely be doing some surgery on the Pro Tongues for added Rom soon, and seeing how that works out with the boots. With stock Pro Tongues the walk mode is very limited.

  21. #296
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Vancouver/Whistler
    Posts
    11,307
    Quote Originally Posted by dcpnz View Post
    I don't really get the blister review likening the 130xtd liner to a pro tour.
    The xtd liner I tried was very thin, flimsy and folded up trying to put boot on. Its much more akin to palau liners from dynafit boots IMO.
    My pro tour from a few years ago are much thicker and stiffer. I would think you'd need to consider sizing up just to fit one in.
    Maybe newer lv protours are much different??
    Agree with you and disagree with Blister. That Production liner is a typical Palau liner good for 30days then bag it for catfood


    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    So what did we decide the difference was between the 120 and 130 shell?
    Its in the NS thread and summarized in my review. Different plastics

  22. #297
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,171
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada29er View Post
    So does anyone know how much length expansion is available from molding the shells?
    You mean by following the standard Memory Fit procedure? Pretty much none.

  23. #298
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    flat lands
    Posts
    856
    Day five at Jackson on mine ( 130's ) I've played with both old and New Intuition pro wrap liners on a couple different width skis...85 and 107 to see what they offer in terms of power. First off I like the boots, they ski really nice and the light weight enhances the whole experience and I look forward to touring, hiking and hucking in them. What they are not at least for me is an everyday do it all resort/side-country/touring boot. My hope was that they would be able to fill this role and sadly they will not. They have a pretty short flex pattern that no matter what Atomic says is no where near the 130 flex that the 130Hawx Ultra alpine boot has...I put one of each on today with my own liners inserted and it was not even close. I bottomed out a few times today on high speed compression turns and that cemented my opinion that I could not live in them everyday for everything. If you don't ski hard and fast you could probably get away with them inbounds for everyday and certainly for occasional use they would suffice. Just don't expect them to rail turns like your 130 flex alpine boots...it won't happen.

    But its is a nice option if you don't mind a boot quiver of two or do mostly off piste and want what is probably one of the top couple of pin/walk sole style options out there.

  24. #299
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    73
    Guys, what do you think about hawx ultra xtd 100 + intuition luxury or pro tour liner? Is it worth it?

    Also what would you pick hawx ultra xtd 120 vs Salomon MTN explore?

  25. #300
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,361
    Quote Originally Posted by Sashka View Post
    Also what would you pick hawx ultra xtd 120 vs Salomon MTN explore?
    The one that fits better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

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