Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD aka Hawk Extended aka HawX

[wilcox510]

Leelau - did you put a size 27 Protour liner in your 27 shells, or did you go up a size like people sometimes do with Intuitions?

[robnow]

Thanks for the comparison, sounds like I am on the right track with the 130, now evo just needs to get some more 28.5s

Ok, little revision. Tried all three tonight with the 120 liners. The Atomics are an impressively stiff and solid boot. Small difference in flex between the 120 and 130 and the 120 is stiffer than the Freetour 130. The Langes just distort so much through the plastic.

[Lindahl]

Ok, little revision. Tried all three tonight with the 120 liners. The Atomics are an impressively stiff and solid boot. Small difference in flex between the 120 and 130 and the 120 is stiffer than the Freetour 130. The Langes just distort so much through the plastic.

Cold temps or room temps? Shouldn’t really judge by room temps. Plastics have different thermal properties. For example, on super warm summer days, I can bottom out my Cochise 130s on the buckles and I THINK they’re softer than my old 120s in the same temps (need to try em back 2 back). Not so for cold temps.

[robnow]

Cold temps or room temps? Shouldn’t really judge by room temps. Plastics have different thermal properties. For example, on super warm summer days, I can bottom out my Cochise 130s on the buckles and I THINK they’re softer than my old 120s in the same temps (need to try em back 2 back). Not so for cold temps.

Yes, room temp...so in theory the 120 should stiffen up more relative to the other two in the cold.

[XavierD]

Ok, little revision. Tried all three tonight with the 120 liners. The Atomics are an impressively stiff and solid boot. Small difference in flex between the 120 and 130 and the 120 is stiffer than the Freetour 130. The Langes just distort so much through the plastic.

The Langes will stiffen up more in the cold than the Atomics. I have found the Hawx XTD and Ultra to have one of the least variances in boot flex over temperature ranges and the Langes to have one of the highest.

Skiing both the Lange 130 Freetour and the Hawx XTD 130 at ~25 degrees F the Lange has more power and is harder to bottom out. The initial five-ten degrees is softer than the XTD 130, but it doesn’t fold over after 20deg of flex like the XTD.

Freetour is an everyday resort sidecountry boot. The XTD is a freeride backcountry boot. I’d compare the Freetour against the Cochise and Freedom and compare the XTD against the ZeroG, MTN Lab, and Maestrale RS.

[greasyslope]

^Xavier, was the Atomic with stock liner? Do you think a more alpine style liner would help some?

[LeeLau]

Leelau - did you put a size 27 Protour liner in your 27 shells, or did you go up a size like people sometimes do with Intuitions?

I put a sz 27 Protour in the sz 27 Atomic.

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[kootenayskier]

First impression from just trying them on in my local shop. Acceptable flex and support for inbounds skiing, acceptable ROM for short tours, way too much volume to ever work for my skinny ankles.


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[LeeLau]

First impression from just trying them on in my local shop. Acceptable flex and support for inbounds skiing, acceptable ROM for short tours, way too much volume to ever work for my skinny ankles.

The stock liner had as much support as a wet sock fwiw but that was apparently improved in production. Did you stick an Intuition in there? Curious

[gregL]

The stock liner had as much support as a wet sock fwiw but that was apparently improved in production.

I was told they planned to use stiffer material in the front of the tongue and in the sole plus add a bit of thickness in the midfoot in the production liner.

As far as I can tell, the stiffer material is for real but the production liner seems just as thin around the ankle, and the production boot actually weighed less than the prototype by a few grams.

[DGamms]

I was told they planned to use stiffer material in the front of the tongue and in the sole plus add a bit of thickness in the midfoot in the production liner.

As far as I can tell, the stiffer material is for real but the production liner seems just as thin around the ankle, and the production boot actually weighed less than the prototype by a few grams.

Are you talking about the liner for the XTD 130 or the XTD 120?

The sloppy fit around the ankle for XTD mentioned a few posts above contradictions some other opinions about the heel hold and ankle volume. How is the rear half of the boot for low volume feet?

Lastly, is the ROM and weight of the XTD so much better that you guys would own them in addition to a Freetour XT 130? I skied the XT 130 LV with shims, heel lifts, footbeds, Booster straps, and Zipfits for inbounds duty about 50 days last season. They were awesome inbounds and slackcountry with those mods, but pretty heavy with poor ROM for all day or multi day tours.

[gregL]

Are you talking about the liner for the XTD 130 or the XTD 120?

The sloppy fit around the ankle for XTD mentioned a few posts above contradictions some other opinions about the heel hold and ankle volume. How is the rear half of the boot for low volume feet?

Lastly, is the ROM and weight of the XTD so much better that you guys would own them in addition to a Freetour XT 130? I skied the XT 130 LV with shims, heel lifts, footbeds, Booster straps, and Zipfits for inbounds duty about 50 days last season. They were awesome inbounds and slackcountry with those mods, but pretty heavy with poor ROM for all day or multi day tours.

The 130. I consider the heel pocket of the Ultra 130 XTD with stock liner to be average in volume; it's fine on my foot. It's snugger than the 100mm Lange or the MTN Lab in the heel and midfoot. Similar to the Zero G Guide Pro in that area, though the Zero G is narrower in the medial midfoot under the maleolus (some people mistakenly think that is a tight heel fit).

They are different boots. Better range of motion in both directions and weight give the Ultra XTD a distinct advantage for touring. Progressiveness of flex and stance give the XT Freetour an advantage for skiing downhill. I use the former primarily for touring with skis above 100mm in the waist and the latter primarily for lift skiing.

[kootenayskier]

The stock liner had as much support as a wet sock fwiw but that was apparently improved in production. Did you stick an Intuition in there? Curious

I tried the 120 with stock liners. My buddy / shop employee told me they’re the more substantial resort specific liners, compared to the 130. Didn’t try them with intuitions, as I wasn’t actually shopping, just goofing around on a grey day.


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[Nevada29er]

Lee, can the memory fit be done DIY with a heat gun or boiling the shells?

[carlh]

I've struck out twice on 28.5 130s being in stock, but was told more shipments might be here this week. I am trying to get a set before a trip dec 1. These things are selling fast.

[ffmedic84]

I've struck out twice on 28.5 130s being in stock, but was told more shipments might be here this week. I am trying to get a set before a trip dec 1. These things are selling fast.

Where have you been looking? Local shops or online?

[carlh]

Where have you been looking? Local shops or online?

Trying to buy local so I can have the shell memory fit done and I might need an extra punch after that too.

[LeeLau]

Lee, can the memory fit be done DIY with a heat gun or boiling the shells?

I believe it can be done with both BUT the results will be uneven. At your own risk with new shells then if you wish

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[Nevada29er]

I believe it can be done with both BUT the results will be uneven. At your own risk with new shells then if you wish

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Yeah, I'm going to take them to a shop for molding, assuming it's needed. Pretty stoked to get into new AT boots after 6-7 years in Dynafit Titans, which I never could get really dialed in, shitty ROM, weight, etc.

[LC]

My buddy / shop employee told me they’re the more substantial resort specific liners, compared to the 130.

What does "substantial resort specific" mean? Which liner is thicker and which liner has denser foam? I'm trying to get my foot into one of the XTDs this week or even a Hawx alpine model.

[kid-kapow]

there is an awesome thread on newschoolers concerning the XTD lineup, where Matt/onenerdykid - one of Atomic's boot designers - chime in regularly. The folks over at Blister also have a couple of reviews of both the 120 and the 130 that explains the difference pretty well and Cy - one of the Blister guys - has also chimed in in the newschoolers-thread.

The general consensus is that 120 is more of a resort quiver killer with a beefier liner (think plastic incorporated into the tongue to provide more support/comfort when the going gets tough, aka more resistance when walking), with the 130 being more of a 50/50 boot that tours incredibly well for the punch it also packs. Lee's wet sock comparison for the 130 liner seems a bit harsh, though time will tell if it is on the money or not. I guess there is nothing new in the aforementioned info - it has all been asked and answered multiple times in this thread already - but oh well.

I have yet to try the boots, but will get some 130s and get a beefier liner down the line for resort days if the need is there.

[gregL]

What does "substantial resort specific" mean? Which liner is thicker and which liner has denser foam? I'm trying to get my foot into one of the XTDs this week or even a Hawx alpine model.

The 120 has a regular lasted liner with layers of both standard and closed cell EVA foam. The 130 has a very thin Palau liner designed to save weight, which makes the boot feel roomier. FWIW, the 130 is super comfortable for me, though the shell needed a big maleolus punch.

[gregL]

Lee, can the memory fit be done DIY with a heat gun or boiling the shells?

Not Lee, but I look kinda like him and am also obsessed with ski boots. Use a convection oven like the shops do, around 225 F. for 8-9 minutes (Atomic says 6 at the pre-set temp of their oven, around 235-240 F., but it isn't really adequate IMO). Heat gun won't be uniform enough, boiling water is contraindicated for use with most ski boot plastics (not sure about Grilamid, but for PU and PE) as it permanently changes the character (softens it). Make sure you stand on a hard, flat surface during cool down and don't walk around; the soles are very thin and could warp.

[summit]

Not Lee, but I look kinda like him and am also obsessed with ski boots. Use a convection oven like the shops do, around 225 F. for 8-9 minutes (Atomic says 6 at the pre-set temp of their oven, around 235-240 F., but it isn't really adequate IMO). Heat gun won't be uniform enough, boiling water is contraindicated for use with most ski boot plastics (not sure about Grilamid, but for PU and PE) as it permanently changes the character (softens it). Make sure you stand on a hard, flat surface during cool down and don't walk around; the soles are very thin and could warp.

So what about 180 for 12 minutes... is that not enough heat? I'm thinking about trying to have these done on a Fischer Vacuum, but I'm not sure how much above the 175 that Fischers are cooked at will be acceptable to a shop for fear of damaging the Vacuum fit apparatus?

[summit]

there is an awesome thread on newschoolers concerning the XTD lineup, where Matt/onenerdykid - one of Atomic's boot designers - chime in regularly. The folks over at Blister also have a couple of reviews of both the 120 and the 130 that explains the difference pretty well and Cy - one of the Blister guys - has also chimed in in the newschoolers-thread.

The general consensus is that 120 is more of a resort quiver killer with a beefier liner (think plastic incorporated into the tongue to provide more support/comfort when the going gets tough, aka more resistance when walking), with the 130 being more of a 50/50 boot that tours incredibly well for the punch it also packs. Lee's wet sock comparison for the 130 liner seems a bit harsh, though time will tell if it is on the money or not. I guess there is nothing new in the aforementioned info - it has all been asked and answered multiple times in this thread already - but oh well.

I have yet to try the boots, but will get some 130s and get a beefier liner down the line for resort days if the need is there.

That was going to be my question... lliner quiver instead of boot quiver?