P18 Pivot FKS forward pressure - ignore the indicator?

**mr_pretzel** · 04-05-2021, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

Anyone know why you can’t mount the Look SPX 15 Rockerace to a normal ski? Mount pattern seems the same as the spx 12 which you can mount normal, does it just come with the wrong type of screws for non-race plates?

Also funny that it has a DIN of 7-15 and the pivot 15 is 6-15. Those must be the same springs?

Well I found my answer.

I now see that the 15 heel is actually slightly shorter than the 12 heel. That’s too bad.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...02#post5826102

**fleaches** · 10-06-2021, 02:30 PM

There's a little bit of discussion of this here, but does anyone know whether the "shorten the jig 5 mm" thing was incorporated into all of the available paper templates? I have some of the templates that are linked on slidewright printed out. I have mounted a ton of bindings with the paper templates previously but not pivots, seems like they are a bit less straightforward based on the info here.

**kid-kapow** · 10-06-2021, 02:38 PM

def to a trial mount on a piece of wood first wrt Pivots and dialing where you end up on the ski.

My BSL is 293 and I've landed on a 280mm toe, 310mm heel to get on the line with what I assume is correct forward pressure using Knut's templates.

Following the template as is landed me a fair bit in front of the line on my first mount using the template, prior to doing multiple trial mounts on a piece of wood / plank to figure the template out.

**Wes Mantooth** · 10-06-2021, 03:29 PM

Are you guys still using the original bindingfreedom template or is there a new and somehow improved template out there somewhere? I have mounted lots of pairs of bindings with jondrums' templates in the past but nothing recently

Also curious about the consensus on the 5mm thing when using paper templates

**FlimFlamvanHam** · 10-06-2021, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by fleaches

There's a little bit of discussion of this here, but does anyone know whether the "shorten the jig 5 mm" thing was incorporated into all of the available paper templates? I have some of the templates that are linked on slidewright printed out. I have mounted a ton of bindings with the paper templates previously but not pivots, seems like they are a bit less straightforward based on the info here.

My advice is no, don't go -5mm. I mount all of my pivots with the Jondrums template. In all cases the heel must be wound out past the middle indicator to get what I consider the right forward pressure. Maybe I run mine a bit slack? If I went -5 for my BSL I'd be out at the end indicator or very close to it (only because I end up far enough past the middle one, mounted for my BSL, that adding 5mm BSL would put me out that much farther.)

And to add, my experience tells me pivots are happier being wound in all the way than maxed the other way (I find stepping in takes more force at the long end).

I'd also like to take back all of my advice in the past that pivots have 20mm of BSL adjustment range. Maybe they do, but I had 2 sets mounted to 301BSL and changed to 310BSL and had to remount both heels as way too much FP and past the last indicator. This wasn't just my taste in FP, they were really way too tight.

If I had to choose to err I'd actually mount for +5mm BSL but mounting for your BSL is the right move.

**Pinned** · 10-06-2021, 10:02 PM

I've mounted Pivots using the Jondrums / Binding Freedom paper template - didn't do any subtraction on the BSL. The forward pressure was perfect with the heels in the middle of the indicator.

Obviously, check that the scaling of the print is accurate, but the templates seemed to work well for me.

**skifishbum** · 10-07-2021, 06:28 AM

i used to snug the jig a mm or 2 from tight as the shop manual used to state
but the new hot plate jig nails it with the boot in tight

**Dee Hubbs** · 10-07-2021, 08:30 AM

Template is spot on.
Look jig needs a -5 nudge.

**fleaches** · 10-07-2021, 09:14 AM

All right I'm gonna do a test mount today and will report back with another data point. Thanks all!

**stealurface831** · 11-24-2021, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by fleaches

All right I'm gonna do a test mount today and will report back with another data point. Thanks all!

what were your results?

**connersw** · 11-30-2021, 01:58 PM

I know this has been discussed, but my Google-fu is failing me so this thread seems like a place to ask:

What to do with wear holes in the dildo from releasing with poles? Set the DIN, fill with epoxy, and never turn the screw again? Just let them be? Is there a better solution for repairing?

**SirVicSmasher** · 11-30-2021, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by connersw

I know this has been discussed, but my Google-fu is failing me so this thread seems like a place to ask:

What to do with wear holes in the dildo from releasing with poles? Set the DIN, fill with epoxy, and never turn the screw again? Just let them be? Is there a better solution for repairing?

Don't bother the spring is still protected

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

**fleaches** · 11-30-2021, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by stealurface831

what were your results?

Sorry forgot about this. Tried on a wood block and templates were spot on for good forward pressure in the middle of adjustment range.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

**Wes Mantooth** · 11-30-2021, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by connersw

I know this has been discussed, but my Google-fu is failing me so this thread seems like a place to ask:

What to do with wear holes in the dildo from releasing with poles? Set the DIN, fill with epoxy, and never turn the screw again? Just let them be? Is there a better solution for repairing?

In the past I have covered the fully exposed part with some painters tape and then filled the whole cavity with JB weld. Still in there after 2 years and hasn’t messed with the ability to adjust the din screw, though on those bindings the indicator stopped working so I have to count turns

Don’t fill it too much otherwise your poles will slip out when the dildo pops open and put holes in your topsheet (don’t ask me how I know)

**EWG** · 12-11-2021, 06:07 PM

Crosspost from the mount your own bindings thread.

Question. My kid got his skis mounted recently at a local shop. Pivot 14s. He’s saying when he’s skating he’s feeling his heels pull up a little. He’s in SLC and I’m in CO so I can’t personally inspect.

Is he crazy? He doesn’t have his DIN super high but it should be more than high enough to lock the heel down. He blew a ski off on a big launch to a flattish landing yesterday. I saw the video and it certainly could have been a normal release but he seemed pretty quiet and balanced on the landing so I’m not sure.

Anyway, am I crazy or does this sound like not enough forward pressure?

**snowaddict91** · 12-11-2021, 06:21 PM

^That's the whole synopsis of this thread. Forward pressure on pivots can be finicky and it wouldn't surprise me if the tech went by the indicator and they need a notch or two more. Its happened to me on skis mounted at a shop.

**EWG** · 12-11-2021, 06:26 PM

Thanks.

**Mustonen** · 12-11-2021, 06:31 PM

If the heel lifts up or there is toe wiggle when twisting your skis on the lift —> give the screws a spin.

**GoldenBC** · 12-13-2021, 10:22 PM

What's up with the base plates breaking where they attach to the pivot arms? Saw three yesterday and lots last year. Seems like a lot of them are with people that ski Dalbellos but it also seems like everyone skis Dalbellos now.

**skifishbum** · 12-14-2021, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by EWG

Crosspost from the mount your own bindings thread.

Question. My kid got his skis mounted recently at a local shop. Pivot 14s. He’s saying when he’s skating he’s feeling his heels pull up a little. He’s in SLC and I’m in CO so I can’t personally inspect.

Is he crazy? He doesn’t have his DIN super high but it should be more than high enough to lock the heel down. He blew a ski off on a big launch to a flattish landing yesterday. I saw the video and it certainly could have been a normal release but he seemed pretty quiet and balanced on the landing so I’m not sure.

Anyway, am I crazy or does this sound like not enough forward pressure?

send him down to see me at the millcreek 9 and ill check his binders

**ntblanks** · 02-17-2022, 05:27 PM

So I just mounted up my first pair of pivots and had an experience I think worth sharing even if just helps a few noobs.

From the OP:

Originally Posted by Spyderjon

I sell a lot of Pivots mail order in the UK & these are the forward pressure instructions I send with each pair:
...The target should be to have the sloping forward pressure indicator at the rear of the base plate in line with the notches however this is often inaccurate - in fact it’s often possible to make a large adjustment in the forward pressure & the sloping indicator doesn’t even move. This is a ‘feature’ of the design!

So, I ran into this "feature" on one ski but not the other. On the other, the white indicator slid correctly as I adjusted the post screws. But no movement on the first ski. So I turned the ski to the side to see better what was or was not happening. And I saw it: on the "good" ski the rounded black plastic at the rear of the turntable was in *horizontal* (and correct) contact with the white sliding indicator. So when fwd pressure was increased via the dildo it would push the boot (sole) incrementally down, squeezing this part, which transfers pressure backwards to the white indicator.

On the "bad" ski I discovered that the white indicator was tucked under that rounded black plastic. So when you tighten the post screws it had no effect on the white indicator. And when a boot is clicked in it just sandwiches the white indicator: there's no horizontal pressure applied because it is not seated properly.

This may or may not be the cause of the problem Spyderjon has in mind. But the symptom was the same and easy to miss if you're just looking at the assembly from above.

Can post pics if there's interest, but as pivot mounters I imagine you know exactly what I'm describing.

**gwat** · 02-17-2022, 09:56 PM

Ya you have to turn the heel 90degrees sideways then back again and the indicator should reset itself.

**Pinned** · 02-18-2022, 11:00 AM

What gwat said. The pressure indicator works OK, but always requires a reset.

The Pivot forward pressure is not as mystical and tough to figure out as some make it out to be. Tons of good tips and advice in this thread. I always adjust the heels to be right in the middle of the second dashed line on both sides (which is the middle of the range), reset the heels by rotating, click the boot in, and check the indicator. If the white indicator is within a hair either direction of the dashes on the baseplate and the dildo is at an angle so that it's making good contact with the boot then it's good.

So far so good with this method, release values all test normally.

**JRainey** · 02-27-2022, 10:25 AM

What's the word on having the arms all the way screwed in?

Like past the inside hash marks. No silver showing? Seems fine, but I'm a test mount and can adjust. If it works, then I'm fine as that's with my smallest BSL and will likely never have smaller.

**Mustonen** · 02-27-2022, 11:01 AM

That’s what I thought. But atomic Hawx are 5mm shorter than Salomon boots for same size, and ended up with a pair of skis that barely worked when I switched to those boots for a brief period last season.

Currently in the middle of this exact debate, actually….. small BSL means most friends can’t take my skis for test laps. So tempted to mount at the bottom of the adjustment range, but if I go Hawx in future (seems likely, they fit my feet well if they can provide similar ski ability to s/pro 130 carbon) then I’d regret it.

My living room right this second: