P18 Pivot FKS forward pressure - ignore the indicator?

**banzai** · 01-29-2021, 01:38 AM

I've generally disregarded the forward pressure indicator, but on my last tweak I've noticed something interesting. When I set up the forward pressure correctly (presumably), the white indicator blows past the marks. However, when I wiggle the dildo left and right (the boot is in), the white indicator falls back in line with the marks and stays there.

**galibier_numero_un** · 01-29-2021, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by banzai

I've generally disregarded the forward pressure indicator, but on my last tweak I've noticed something interesting. When I set up the forward pressure correctly (presumably), the white indicator blows past the marks. However, when I wiggle the dildo left and right (the boot is in), the white indicator falls back in line with the marks and stays there.

Yup, that was in one of the various Pivot threads. IIRC, rotating the heel 90 degrees resets the indicator.

So, reset and ignore ;-)

... Thom

**banzai** · 01-29-2021, 02:34 AM

Yes Thom, that indeeds resets the indicator. I meant something else though, sorry for not explaining clearer. When you strap the boot in, the white indicator blows past the marks and stays there. Then wiggle the dildo a little bit ( a few mm left and right) with the boot still engaged in the binding and the white indicator falls back in line with marks. That seems to make the white indicator work properly. These are my observations, happy to hear if anyone else noticed this too or I am talking bs.

**waxoff** · 01-29-2021, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by banzai

Yes Thom, that indeeds resets the indicator. I meant something else though, sorry for not explaining clearer. When you strap the boot in, the white indicator blows past the marks and stays there. Then wiggle the dildo a little bit ( a few mm left and right) with the boot still engaged in the binding and the white indicator falls back in line with marks. That seems to make the white indicator work properly. These are my observations, happy to hear if anyone else noticed this too or I am talking bs.

I tend to disregard the indicator based on partly your observations, i.e. because of its non-consistent display of FP. My method is rather to, with boot in binding, jerk the dildo sideways. I dont want to see any pivoting motion with low hand force inputs. Just by feel, not quantifiable in any easy way, I just increase FP until the heel piece responds as I want it to.

**Mustonen** · 01-29-2021, 06:10 AM

I find it amusing how, throughout the thread, the message has been “the indicators kind of suck and you don’t need them anyways, just make sure the boot fully engages the binding, the dildo pops like it’s excited to go, and there isn’t any play in the heel when engaged” and we continue to try to find ways for the indicators to work.

It’s all pretty qualitative, true, but this is skiing where some people like 120 waisted skis on hard snow days and we use words like “playful” to describe skis. Y’all should be able to handle this.

**GoldenBC** · 03-01-2021, 09:56 AM

Re: mounting for a 5mm shorter bsl

Jigs with the part no: FC0F001 should be mounted on the proper BSL. Do not mount for a smaller BSL

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**Spyderjon** · 03-01-2021, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Re: mounting for a 5mm shorter bsl

Jigs with the part no: FC0F001 should be mounted on the proper BSL. Do not mount for a smaller BSL

With that jig I set the jig to the bsl and drill the toe holes with the jig line on the mounting line. I then shorten the jig by 5mm and after aligning the jig with the toe holes I drill the heel holes. This method gives an 'on the line' mount location and a perfect forward pressure setting when the heel is bang on it's mid range of adjustment, ie in the middle of the centre knurled ring.

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-01-2021, 10:46 AM

^ this is in the exact process my shop use to do. It results a boot on the line, and adjustment in the middle of the pivot arms.
The look manual even says “close the jig 5mm”, but does not describe the methodology.

**klauss** · 03-01-2021, 11:07 AM

I used a paper template recently and with correct forward pressure i'm much closer to the front of the adjustment range than the middle. anyone else? the pivot is a finicky creature

edit: but the paper template did put me at the correct boot center mark, so like the jig method mentioned above where you just have to adjust the heel up a bit....maybe not a full 5 mm though. I dunno

**toast2266** · 03-01-2021, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by klauss

I used a paper template recently and with correct forward pressure i'm much closer to the front of the adjustment range than the middle. anyone else? the pivot is a finicky creature

I've had the same experience with paper templates. Using a jigarex I'm at the middle of the adjustment range. I wonder if the BSL markings on the paper template are a little off?

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-01-2021, 11:32 AM

Dont quote me, but I remember the original template (circa 2009) being a bit off, and it was measured and corrected against the holes drilled by a shop jig, with the 5mm closed process.
This was way back in the "verified" and non verified days when the paper jigs were first being produced.
Back in 2009:

Originally Posted by jondrums

Thanks for the heads up. Just to clarify, was the BCL spot on based on the toe location? I think the just scale on the heelpiece BCL might be messed up, I'll take a closer look. I have FKS sitting in a box at home, so I can test this one sometime soon.

The point I am making is the paper template has the "Look manual's procedure of closing the jig 5mm" built into it.

**XXX-er** · 03-01-2021, 11:35 AM

I use the binding as the template to mark holes and so far

its always been correct

**GoldenBC** · 03-01-2021, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Spyderjon

With that jig I set the jig to the bsl and drill the toe holes with the jig line on the mounting line. I then shorten the jig by 5mm and after aligning the jig with the toe holes I drill the heel holes. This method gives an 'on the line' mount location and a perfect forward pressure setting when the heel is bang on it's mid range of adjustment, ie in the middle of the centre knurled ring.

I am curious why we are finding something different.

I mounted one with the BSL correct, on the line, and it came out perfectly. Perfect forward pressure, on the line, in the middle of the range.

I tried one with the jig 5mm smaller. Way too tight forward pressure. I'm going to scroll back through the posts and see what you consider the right FP. I like it with the boot stepping on the heel of the binding by ~2mm.

**mr_pretzel** · 03-02-2021, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenBC

I am curious why we are finding something different.

I mounted one with the BSL correct, on the line, and it came out perfectly. Perfect forward pressure, on the line, in the middle of the range.

I tried one with the jig 5mm smaller. Way too tight forward pressure. I'm going to scroll back through the posts and see what you consider the right FP. I like it with the boot stepping on the heel of the binding by ~2mm.

I also have that jig and don't move anything and it puts me at the perfect pressure. It produces the same results as the jigarex for me.

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-02-2021, 11:25 AM

I don’t think you guys have enough forward pressure, but what do I know, Gwat is just going to tell me I’m wrong.
IMHO the heel of the boot needs to hit the vertical surface of the dildo mid way towards the horizontal surface. If the heel is dropping into the binding and hitting the horizontal surface first, there is not enough forward pressure.

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Look at where my wear marks are from my Dynafit inserts hitting the vertical plane of the heel piece.

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**snowaddict91** · 03-02-2021, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

I don’t think you guys have enough forward pressure, but what do I know, Gwat is just going to tell me I’m wrong.
IMHO the heel of the boot needs to hit the vertical surface of the dildo mid way towards the horizontal surface. If the heel is dropping into the binding and hitting the horizontal surface first, there is not enough forward pressure.

Look at where my wear marks are from my Dynafit inserts hitting the vertical plane of the heel piece.

I'm no ski tech or expert, but this is how mine are all set up as well.

**beeeom** · 03-02-2021, 07:36 PM

What's the best technique to compress the toe spring in order to thread the toe screw on? I'm having a hell of a time here...

**mr_pretzel** · 03-02-2021, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

I don’t think you guys have enough forward pressure, but what do I know, Gwat is just going to tell me I’m wrong.
IMHO the heel of the boot needs to hit the vertical surface of the dildo mid way towards the horizontal surface. If the heel is dropping into the binding and hitting the horizontal surface first, there is not enough forward pressure.

Look at where my wear marks are from my Dynafit inserts hitting the vertical plane of the heel piece.

I agree with this, the twist method always ends up like this.

**gwat** · 03-02-2021, 08:13 PM

^the threads should be catching before there is any spring compression.

Likely the white plastic spacer behind the spring is not properly seated in the metal housing.

First, make sure it is oriented properly - wide end against the spring and narrow end into the toe housing.

Insert the spring but before you put the screw on, push the spring in and wiggle, while holding the end of the metal rod securely in place (the square end by the front of the boot lug). The plastic spacer should snap into the housing and the screw will thread on no problem.

Dee, sorry I hit a nerve last month. Simple misinterpretation on both sides I’d say..I’m sure you are fully competent with these bindings.
Vive la single dildo angle!

And ya my heels brush the binding by ~1mm too...

**beeeom** · 03-02-2021, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by gwat

^the threads should be catching before there is any spring compression.

Likely the white plastic spacer behind the spring is not properly seated in the metal housing.

First, make sure it is oriented properly - wide end against the spring and narrow end into the toe housing.

Insert the spring but before you put the screw on, push the spring in and wiggle, while holding the end of the metal rod securely in place (the square end by the front of the boot lug). The plastic spacer should snap into the housing and the screw will thread on no problem

Thanks. I was trying to brute force it down and ended up dropping it and pieces went everywhere. I put it all back together and it threaded on no problem, so I must have just had something out of alignment or backwards.

**Bronco** · 03-04-2021, 04:33 PM

I'm mounting some Pivots tonight and read through this entire thread.

One thing I'm still confused about, how many beers is this project?

**NW_SKIER** · 03-04-2021, 05:05 PM

Eleventeen

**Reno Paul** · 03-21-2021, 02:01 PM

Found a good YouTube video on the web: "How to Mount Your Own Skis" from "Ski Sled Shred". Used that and this thread to mount my new Pivot 18's on my old skis.

Thanks!

**Spyderjon** · 03-21-2021, 04:22 PM

Just had an email from someone wanting a Look FCFF001 jig - unfortunately it went in to my spam folder and I accidently deleted it. I think the persons name was Jonas.

So if it was you please resend the email, although Look are still out of stock of the jigs but I can put you on my waiting list.

**mr_pretzel** · 04-05-2021, 01:43 AM

Anyone know why you can’t mount the Look SPX 15 Rockerace to a normal ski? Mount pattern seems the same as the spx 12 which you can mount normal, does it just come with the wrong type of screws for non-race plates?

Also funny that it has a DIN of 7-15 and the pivot 15 is 6-15. Those must be the same springs?