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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by alias_rice View Post
    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46211347&ni...case-escalante

    Here's the other shoe.

    Just what that area needs: hordes of fatasses, paved roads, rangers, permits, fees, every canyoneering route bolted to hell.

    Fuck me, what a depressing 48 hours.
    Fucking hell. Besides the fatasses, permits, fees. etc., NPS is underfunded by billions, so let's build another one?

  2. #127
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    Ed Abbey is turning in his grave right now.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by alias_rice View Post
    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46211347&ni...case-escalante

    Here's the other shoe.

    Just what that area needs: hordes of fatasses, paved roads, rangers, permits, fees, every canyoneering route bolted to hell.

    Fuck me, what a depressing 48 hours.
    I'm not a fan of the designation effect, especially with the admission price of 75 bucks now.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Ed Abbey is turning in his grave right now.
    Bullshit. Edward Abbey wasn't really a fan of National Parks either and would probably turn over in his grave seeing what they have become.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  5. #130
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    And I bet all of you own a car or two.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  6. #131
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    Ed was no fan of the NPS, for sure. We own 3 cars.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    Bullshit. Edward Abbey wasn't really a fan of National Parks either and would probably turn over in his grave seeing what they have become.
    Which is exactly why he would pissed about a NM becoming a NP? I'm pretty sure you missed AD's point.

    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    And I bet all of you own a car or two.
    Your point being what? That if I drive I can't be opposed to O&G extraction in GSE and BE? That's absurd and you know it.

  8. #133
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  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    "The President Stole Your Land" ... he stole it from the USFS and BLM... and he gave it to the USFS and BLM.

    I'm not quite sure where I stand, but that kind of hyperbole is unhelpful and sinks to Trumps level.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    "The President Stole Your Land" ... he stole it from the USFS and BLM... and he gave it to the USFS and BLM.

    I'm not quite sure where I stand, but that kind of hyperbole is unhelpful and sinks to Trumps level.
    Go traipsing around on one of those big resource extraction leases and let me know how it goes for you. Those guys aren't paying market rate, and they are given shit that used to be open to the public and keeping the public out. I don't think it's terribly far-fetched to say that it's stealing from Joe Public. For sure, something has been taken from you and given to someone else, and you're not getting compensated for the loss at all.

  11. #136
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    So, I am thinking about taking the kiddo RV Camping in the Bears Ears area next spring break (before it is strip mined or whatever). Anyone have boondocking suggestions? I don't have a ton of off road clearance...
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  12. #137
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    I’m pretty much devastated by this whole situation. By the local politics, by Zinke, by trump. The locals interviewed in escalante are pretty disappointed, the visitation has made living there viable.

    When you take the fact that the most important piece of beats ears as far as a historical/artifacts site was rescinded it’s just plain criminal. I hope someday history shows what tools and criminals these guys are.


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  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    Go traipsing around on one of those big resource extraction leases and let me know how it goes for you. Those guys aren't paying market rate, and they are given shit that used to be open to the public and keeping the public out. I don't think it's terribly far-fetched to say that it's stealing from Joe Public. For sure, something has been taken from you and given to someone else, and you're not getting compensated for the loss at all.
    Joe Public is working those jobs and also taking their BMWX5 to Starbucks using those resources. To say they aren't getting anything is bullshit.

    Stealing from Joe Public? That's a fucking joke. This is clearly a move from an elected official using the tools at his disposal to appeal to his constituency. Don't like it, change it.

    What has been taken from you and given to someone else? I would be good money you never step foot on those millions of acres, but have reaped the benefits of tons of the fruits of cheap grazing and resource extraction from public lands. And you want compensation? Get real.

    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    I’m pretty much devastated by this whole situation...
    When you take the fact that the most important piece of beats ears as far as a historical/artifacts site was rescinded it’s just plain criminal. I hope someday history shows what tools and criminals these guys are.
    And what crime would that be? Crimes against humanity? Ecoterrorism? Have artifacts been destroyed? Did NEPA just go out the door too?

    There is nothing at all, nothing, that prevents your elected officials from passing legislation re-designating any public lands. There is nothing that prevents the next president from reinstating or creating new monuments completely unilaterally.

    Further, congress gave this power to the executive. They can also rescind it, and any designations they don't like.

    There is no theft or crime. Stop being so sensational.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
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  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    So, I am thinking about taking the kiddo RV Camping in the Bears Ears area next spring break (before it is strip mined or whatever). Anyone have boondocking suggestions? I don't have a ton of off road clearance...
    I don't know the actual designation area (ie what's in and what's out) but from recollection from camping on cedar mesa and the whole general area years ago when I lived in Durango, there is very very little that works for an RV with little clearance. Maybe a few things up Butler Wash?
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    So, I am thinking about taking the kiddo RV Camping in the Bears Ears area next spring break (before it is strip mined or whatever). Anyone have boondocking suggestions? I don't have a ton of off road clearance...
    https://backcountrypost.com/threads/...mb-ridge.5671/

    Better get there quick, it'll be destroyed by next year.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    historical/artifacts


    National Trust For Historic Preservation Raises Millions To Demolish Trump’s Boyhood Home

    WASHINGTON—Overwhelmed by the outpouring of support from the public, the National Trust for Historic Preservation reported Wednesday that it had raised more than $8 million in just three days to demolish President Trump’s boyhood home in Queens, NY. “Thanks to the generosity of the American people, we are well on our way to bulldozing the president’s first home as part of our mission to uphold America’s cultural heritage and values,” said NTHP president Stephanie K. Meeks, adding that not only had dozens of companies come forward to match their employees’ donations but that dozens of children had made much smaller contributions to the cause by sharing their allowance money. “Still, we never imagined that razing the site where the 45th president spent his early years would be greeted so enthusiastically. Big donors, small donors—it seems that Americans from all walks of life want to chip in to make sure that no trace of this structure exists for future generations.” Meeks went on to say that the ground upon which the historic childhood home once stood would be immediately available for new development.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    Joe Public is working those jobs and also taking their BMWX5 to Starbucks using those resources. To say they aren't getting anything is bullshit.

    Stealing from Joe Public? That's a fucking joke. This is clearly a move from an elected official using the tools at his disposal to appeal to his constituency. Don't like it, change it.

    What has been taken from you and given to someone else? I would be good money you never step foot on those millions of acres, but have reaped the benefits of tons of the fruits of cheap grazing and resource extraction from public lands. And you want compensation? Get real.

    And what crime would that be? Crimes against humanity? Ecoterrorism? Have artifacts been destroyed? Did NEPA just go out the door too?

    There is nothing at all, nothing, that prevents your elected officials from passing legislation re-designating any public lands. There is nothing that prevents the next president from reinstating or creating new monuments completely unilaterally.

    Further, congress gave this power to the executive. They can also rescind it, and any designations they don't like.

    There is no theft or crime. Stop being so sensational.
    The fruits of the below-market-rate resource extraction accrue to the lease-holders, idiot. We're talking about global commodities markets and small q from the producers. The producers you are talking about are functionally price-takers. Access to subsidized production inputs for the lease-holders just accrues to the lease-holders (and the politicians they bribe) as rents. If you think otherwise, fucking model it and then test your model with the relevant econometrics. Fucking idiot. Stick to topics you're knowledgeable about.

    What have I lost? Boondock camping and easy canyon hikes with my kids. Habitat for large game, etc. I live here in Utah and have pretty serious climbing/biking/camping hobbies. It's a shit deal for outdoorsmen.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    What have I lost? Boondock camping and easy canyon hikes with my kids. Habitat for large game, etc. I live here in Utah and have pretty serious climbing/biking/camping hobbies. It's a shit deal for outdoorsmen.
    I cry for you and your kids' perceived losses.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Which is exactly why he would pissed about a NM becoming a NP? I'm pretty sure you missed AD's point.
    Correct. I'm not even sure what raisingarizona13 thought my point was. It seemed pretty clear to me.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    NPS is underfunded by billions, so let's build another one?
    Let's build another one and properly fund them all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  21. #146
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    We've gained absolutely nothing by decreasing them. It's sad and shitty.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Let's build another one and properly fund them all.
    I'd be down for this.

    I actually wrote an old fashioned letter to Obama to bring back the CCC as a way to address unemployment and the lack of resources required to manage and maintain public lands.

    He wasn't into it, and I doubt the wall builder would be either.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    We've gained absolutely nothing by decreasing them. It's sad and shitty.
    You've lost nothing that you haven't already had forever.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

  24. #149
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    MTM is spicy today!
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    MTM is spicy today!
    Actually fueled by too strong coffee and New York Spicy Dill Pickle chips.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

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