2017 Lightweight Touring Boots: F1 vs TLT7 vs Procline vs Travers vs Backland

[auvgeek]

Looking for a new big-day touring boot, and figured I'd start a thread since most of the comparison info is currently buried in a number of other individual threads.

After having a few of the 2017 lightweight boots on my feet in a shop, here are some thoughts:

TLT7 seems pretty soft, and I don't like the lower buckle system as much. I also dislike the lack of toe welt, but I need new crampons anyway so I suppose I could buy a hybrid pair that works with them.

F1 and Procline Carbon Support both seem reasonably stiff. I forgot how hard it is to flex into boots with so much sole rocker on the carpet so it's hard for my to quantify any differences between them. In the shop, it was very hard to notice the lateral ROM in the Procline, despite attempting to sidehill on the hiking-boot test ramp thingy. F1 seemed more progressive but could have been the fit or sole rocker.

As for myself, I'm coming from a Vulcan, which I love and have no real need to augment, but I'm hoping to compensate for my lack of fitness with more gear. I'm between the 26 and 27 in most shells. Really trying to figure out how to keep my heel locked down without going to a 5 mm shell fit and punching the bejesus out of the forefoot. F1 in a 26.5/27 right now seems the best fit. For reference, I wear a 26 in all my other boots (Vulcan, Lange ZB, Dalbello Scorpion) with a few mm shell fit. Currently, the F1 would be my pick, but I'm not sure if I can fit into the 26.5/27. I'm also not sure if it's worth it to save like 250 g over the Vulcans, which I love. Would like to try the Fischer Travers on.

[auvgeek]

Some thoughts by other people more experienced than myself to kick off this thread:

I usually wear a Black/Orange 27.5 TLT6, had the TLT5, and Green Performance TLT6 in the same size, all were about a 1.25 finger shell fit. I also wear a 27 Alien 1.0, with about a 1 finger shell fit. Tried on both the 26.5 and and 27.5 TLT7 Carbonio. The TLT7 is definitely wider in the forefoot. I did a shell fit on each, the 26.5 was about 3/4 a finger behind the heel, the 27.5 was 1.25 fingers. I tried to squeeze into the 26.5 with the liner in, liner out and already on my foot, etc. Could not get my foot in the boot. 27.5 with the liner felt like the boot I should be skiing in. Even though it's a little wider than I'm used to and I might need to replace the liner with something a little more substantial after packing out there is no way I could fit my foot in a 26.5. For reference I wear a 10.5-11 size street shoe, but one foot is a little longer. Widest part of my foot is just over 4 inches.

I usually ski the TLT6P sans tongue. Carbonio felt similar in flex, maybe slightly softer and a bit more progressive, however didn't have the booster straps installed, which I do run on my black/orange TLT6P.

I weighed production versions of the Procline Carbon with the heavier "Support" liner and the new F1 this week. (There is a lighter liner available for the Procline Series)

Procline Carbon Support 26.5 = 1166 grams per boot
Scarpa F1 26.5 = 1227 grams per boot
Dynafit TLT7 Expedition 26.5 = 1115 grams per boot

Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to wear the Procline Carbon or TLT7 Expedition in a 26.5, so a more realistic comparison would be:

Arc'teryx Procline Carbon Support 27.5 = 1291 grams
Dynafit TLT7 EXP 27.5 = 1145 grams

No TLT7 Performance or Carbonios yet to weigh . . .

I take back what I said about the Fischers, brought a pair home and carpet flexed them. I have PW Plug liners in the TLT6P with a diamond cutout to allow them to walk decently. The orange/black TLT6Ps have half a season on them and are by no means beat. The Fischers feel stiffer. This is sans tongues in the TLT6P. The TLT6s have some play before you start flexing into them, on the other hand the Fischers flex very evenly and are pretty damn progressive.

I think I will probably go with the Fischers, they walk amazingly well, light at 1075 grams and accept a crampon with no adapter. Currently have the 27.5s and they feel good out of the box, might try the 26.5s to see how they feel. If the length works I'll probably just punch them a bit.

Flexing the TLT7 EXP in the shop felt noticeably softer than the Scarpa F1's and it just felt like the plastic was folding over and bunching up when flexing. All the straps and buckles were annoying

Know this is a TLT7 thread, but just got my first day on the Fischer Travers. These things feel like slippers, have incredible ROM, and are a good bit stiffer on the down than the TLT-6 with no tongues. Also weigh about 200 grams less. I've always used Intuitions, but the Palau liners work really well in these boots. I have a higher instep so most tongue liners put too much pressure on my instep, these are the exception. TIme will tell how these hold up to abuse but so far so good.

I've skied in em [the Procline] once. So not the best of data points but something. I'm 150lbs and 5'10 for ref.
About 4k and a few miles of walking (and some booting). Skinned for a few miles. Skiing was variable with ice/windboard/breakable crust/powder. They do walk/boot nicely. Better than a TLT due to the lateral ROM. More akin to a mountaineering/ice climbing boot. As for sidehilling, the lateral ROM was noticeable, but not so much that I'd call it a deal maker. A marked improvement, but not so much that I'd buy it for that - even if price was not a factor. My touring partner was also on them and tried to quantify it as a 5-10% improvement in skinning efficiency. I'm not sure, but sounds like a reasonable estimate. Likely single digits IMO...

Skiing- not progressive, as expected. Similar to a TLT6P. You're immediately up against the front. Was a bit much for my taste - even while driving zeroG 85s. That's not gonna translate well on bigger boards.

Just bought some F1s. Much more progressive and I have yet to even add a booster. F1 is winning. Not to say the bird boot is not, but just not for me. It seems more of a quiver boot if you're gonna go that route. Say, ski alpinism, which I'm pretty sure was their targeted market. Whereas the F1 is a damn fine boot for skiing and touring, while walking better than a TLT based on something - likely a less impeded cuff pivot than TLT. I'd say the F1 skis better than the TLT and bird boot. I've only a few days on the F1 but so far, SO good. Sold my TLT6s.

F1s (27) came in at 1237g with power strap. TLT6 that I had in same size was 1250g w/o tongue. Did not get a chance to weigh the Procline.

I'm over caffeinated at the moment so excuse my rambling...

Funny, that Travers Carbon was also on my short list but I also couldn't find em to try on. Also, some tinterneting led me to find the outsoles to be suspect. Couldn't get a definitive answer online, but it looks to be carbon or fake carbon showing through on the outsole. This was a while back so maybe there is more info now. Not sure how the carbon-y windows would fare with rock abuse, which my boots see a bunch of. May be a non-issue, but that coupled with lack of try on, led me to F1. As well as Vibram being pretty f'ing awesome on the F1.

[doebedoe]

Reason Atomic Backland Carbon isn't also on your list?

[auvgeek]

Heel hold.

But I had hoped this would be be a comparison thread with consolidated info (similar to the one on heavier touring boots), not specific to what I need/want, so I added it to the title.

[mall walker]

Disappointing to hear the TLT7 is so soft. I have green TLT6Ps that I ski with (black) tongues, and they're stiff enough but I wouldn't want to go a lot softer.

I remember hearing the F1 was quite soft though, maybe this was pre-recall? The velcro in the top strap turns me off entirely, although anything with mandatory integrated velcro (ie that I cannot replace with a booster or remove altogether without sacrificing performance) is a no-go for me.

[riff]

I mostly use vulcans, with intuitions/ bottom buckle removed. I've had tlt 5/6. I just got a pair of backland carbons, with a stiff tongue and modded intuitions like I use in the Vulcans. Great walk mode, better than tlt6, with stiff tongue and liners they feel comparable to the 6's, but wider forefoot in the shell. I couldn't ski the 6's without punching, backlands are fine. Walk mode is great. The buckles feel a little less quality than dynafit, but work fine. Cuff pivot/ ease of movement is top notch.

[XXX-er]

As for myself, I'm coming from a Vulcan, which I love and have no real need I'm also not sure if it's worth it to save like 250 g over the Vulcans, which I love. Would like to try the Fischer Travers on.

It is bigger than you my son it is god

he/she/they are trying to tell you ... that you have too much $$$$

[sfotex]

I was about to start this same thread.
I'm looking for a boot that is:
1) a bit warmer/roomier then my TLT6P
2) More progressive flex in the same ballpark as the TLT6P in stiffness (I ski mine w/o the tongue FWIW)

I've tried on the TLT7, Travers, and Procline. They would all fit the bill. The Procline is a tad heavier without much adding much IMHO. Reports seem to put it in the not very progressive camp. The TLT7P felt more progressive then the TLT6P. The toe bail thing, eh, I can work around it. Travers felt good, simple, I think making the boot water proof might = warmer.

[LeeLau]

Did you read this?

http://www.tetongravity.com/story/sk...g-boot-2014-15

F! is pretty stiff. At least as stiff as Mango Maestrale. There is a discussion thread about the boot. I have the new fixed F1. It's as good as the older F1 with the exception that the newer F1's forward lean is 20 - 22 degrees as opposed to older model at 17 to 19 degrees

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Haven't been in Mango Maestrales for a few years but the F1's feel a bit sturdier to me. I remember the lower deforming when the mangoes were flexed hard. This doesn't happen with the F1's.

[m-ruta]

FWIW the Backland's heel hold is laughably poor with the stock liner for me but perfectly fine with anything else. My other boot is also a Vulcan.

[land]

Glad to see some talk about the Travers Carbon around here. I just ordered a pair (in 25.5). Tried on a 26.5, because that's what was around. They were too big, but there's a few things I noticed. The walk mode is insane. Better than any of the other boots I've tried on in this category (I haven't tried the Procline or the TLT7). The design is so simple and seems to work very well, didn't feel much play, if any, in the ski mode and it felt more natural than the Backland. Could be because of a taller cuff and more upright stance, but I also think they had a little more progressive of a flex.

The F1 in ski mode felt the most like an actual ski boot out of these three boots (Travers, Backland, F1), I suppose because of what others have described as a "progressive" flex. The real power strap, velcro buckle and boa closure seems like an awesome system. Intuition liners are an obvious huge plus. The walk mode was good, not nearly as good as the Travers.

I was hopeful for the Backlands, given the custom shell possibilities, but they just didn't feel like they would ski naturally for me. I think it was some combination of a low cuff and non progressive flex. Maybe I would rather have a softer flex that I can get into progressively than a higher outright stiffness? Not sure.

Overall, my decision was between the F1 and the Travers. I chose the Travers because I think they had a slightly higher volume fit (maybe because the liner is very thin), a simpler design that really seems to work and less weight. I'll report back once I receive the right size boots and take em out.

For reference, I currently tour in Mercurys and these days, don't feel the need to put the tongue in for the ski down. In the resort I ski on (and love skiing on) Technica Inferno 130s with intuition pro tongues. It's an intoxicating level of power on the right day. I'm just discovering that I don't need a stiff boot skiing powder in the backcountry and would love to have a more mobile boot for the ups.

Edit/PS: I am very psyched to not be messing with velcro power straps and tongues and all the other finicky shit during transitions. One lever and one buckle will be nice.

[thecazdog]

Why not have a go at the La Sportiva Syborg? I've skied both the TLT6 Performance and the Syborg this winter, and if you are on ski mountaineering sized planks, the Syborgs are great. I'd happily ski anything up to 100mm underfoot with them. I've got a pair of Mtn Labs that never saw the BC this year, as the TLT6 is more than enough boot for me, and the Syborg is only a tad softer.

The Skialper reviews considered the Travers to be average, the F1 to be pretty good, and the TLT7 to be even better. They reckon the Procline is the best boot out there in the class - I'm looking forward to trying them on, but right now I'm more than happy with the TLT6 / Syborg combo.

[LeeLau]

Total geek out but I'll have a TLT6 Carbon, F1, Procline. Will be "fun" to mix and match different boots throughout the day to see how they ski. If they're all close to the same bsl it'd be an interesting exercise

[sfotex]

Got some time on my Fischer traverse carbon boots, and man I'm impressed. The stiffness to weight ratio is pretty good, warm, comfy. Did I mention warm and comfy? You can pop the boa while you climb and they feel like running shoes, then quickly crank it down at the top for a nice fit on the down. There's a few refinements I would like to see (the top buckle velcro needs to have a way to adjust tighter for us chicken legs, when the the top buckle is open the two pieces of plastic that overlap on the front of the cuff don't seat right so you have to move them to close the buckle) Pretty trivial stuff though. I think if they reinforced the upper shell with some carbon and keep the weight under 1200 grams they will have a winner for a lot of North American skiers.

[mall walker]

Why not have a go at the La Sportiva Syborg? I've skied both the TLT6 Performance and the Syborg this winter, and if you are on ski mountaineering sized planks, the Syborgs are great. I'd happily ski anything up to 100mm underfoot with them. I've got a pair of Mtn Labs that never saw the BC this year, as the TLT6 is more than enough boot for me, and the Syborg is only a tad softer.

How are the Syborgs in terms of warmth? If they're close to my TLT6Ps w/tongue I might pick up a pair (can get this specific boot discounted) for my 177cm Movement Response-X...

[sfotex]

How are the Syborgs in terms of warmth? If they're close to my TLT6Ps w/tongue I might pick up a pair (can get this specific boot discounted) for my 177cm Movement Response-X...

They're pretty warm for such a light boot. I skied them a lot last March at night when we got those big storms and my feet were pretty happy going up Gobbler's, etc. , and I have the coldest feet ever. I think the gaiter have a lot to do with it.

[mall walker]

^ interesting, thanks. also, we gotta get out and tour this year.

[land]

The stiffness to weight ratio is pretty good, warm, comfy. Did I mention warm and comfy? You can pop the boa while you climb and they feel like running shoes, then quickly crank it down at the top for a nice fit on the down. There's a few refinements I would like to see (the top buckle velcro needs to have a way to adjust tighter for us chicken legs, when the the top buckle is open the two pieces of plastic that overlap on the front of the cuff don't seat right so you have to move them to close the buckle)...

I would echo all of this.

Maybe I'm lucky that they fit my feet well, but they are the first pair of boots I've owned that don't need any boot fitting whatsoever. I was initially worried that the comfort would be ruined eventually when the liner packed out, but the liner is so soft and thin that I can't imagine this will be an issue. There's just not much to pack out. At first, I had thought the liner was a little disconcerting, coming from various thicker, firmer intuition liners, but it turns out that the heel hold is darn good and the fit is still very close. Probably due to the BOA.

They have been noticeably warmer than my mercuries, but that is probably more due to a better fit than anything. 0 degree dawn patrol still made my toes cold the other day, but I also got a bit of frostbite a few weeks ago, so maybe I'm more sensitive.

I too wish the cuff could be made tighter. I've got the spoiler in and the velcro on maximum tight and it's barely tight enough. Would be nice if they had molded some other buckle locations.

There is a little play in the ski mode mechanism that I notice on the bench, but haven't noticed skiing. Maybe it would be a factor if I wasn't skiing exclusively powder lately. Or if I had bigger skis, but that's not why you buy lightweight boots.

I can't comment on durability as of yet, but it's such a simple design that I think they'll prove to be reliable. Only question is the BOA, which feels strong so far.

They aren't stiff, but they are confidence inspiring in the backcountry. These, coupled with light easy skis (Voile Vector 180) and lower ramp bindings (ssl 2.0) have got me psyched! My old setup was mercuries on huascarans and, honestly, I think I probably ski better on these. Easier, lighter and simpler are good things in the backcountry.

[XXX-er]

Don't forget to pay attention to what boot will fit in a frame binding vs boots that are Tech bindings only

[hnnaum]

Try Procline Carbon and TLT7 Performance in store. TLT seem wider, more space at the toes and stiffer 10 - 20% then birdy..

[mall walker]

Got into OR and checked out a couple boots I am mega stoked on. Sportive Sytron, appears to be the upgrade of the Syborg but nicer colors, lower ratchet replaced w/integrated cable similar to TLT7. Same walk/ski mode as now but seemed quite tough.

Scarpa Alien RS, replacing the Alien, ~850g and the rep said a 95 flex (which he compared to the F1 at 100), $699. If really that stiff, or close, a holy grail duo w/my TLT6Ps right there.

Dynafit is making a boot, forget the name, but it's basically a TLT6, normal toe/heel attachment for crampons, in a cool gray carbon color, around 1150g. So if you aren't stoked on the TLT7 toe, maybe this is the ticket.

Maestrale RS isn't really my type of boot but it also looked nicely engineered.

[auvgeek]

Scarpa Alien RS, replacing the Alien, ~850g and the rep said a 95 flex (which he compared to the F1 at 100)

Woah! Sounds like if Scarpa updates the F1 with that technology, it'll be a real winner. A progressive, 110 flex boot @ 1300 g sounds perfect.

[wilcox510]

Woah! Sounds like if Scarpa updates the F1 with that technology, it'll be a real winner. A progressive, 110 flex boot @ 1300 g sounds perfect.

So is there any indication Scarpa is revamping the F1? I would also love to see a stiffer F1...

[mall walker]

^ F1 looked unchanged to me but I also didn't ask, might just be the same color? Maybe someone else more knowledgeable here knows.

https://www.wildsnow.com/21514/dynaf...ing-2017-2018/

They mention the new "Speedfit" boot I alluded to earlier there. Cheap + 1150g + basically a TLT6 = pretty viable option imo, as long as stays in the general stiffness range of the TLT6 anyway. Not sure about Lou's read of it as a "resort skinning" line but ymmv.