Switzerland Beta...help a bruder out!

[smartyiak]

It's official, I get to go to Swissland.

It's prolly not the best time for skiing, but it's better than all of the other times I've been there (which is never).

We'll be spending two days in Zermatt (12/13-14) and two days in St. Moritz (12/15-16). We also get a few days in Zurich and possibly a day or two in Interlaken.

In addition to anything skiing related that I must know (I plan to ski one day in Zermatt and one in St. Moritz), is there anything we HAVE to see/visit while there? I'll bring boots, but will rent skis.

We will NOT be renting a car and will take the train everywhere...don't know how much that affects any plans...but that's what we're doing.

Anybody got info????

[Benny Profane]

I don't know shit, but, somebody posted this video in the Snow for the Euros thread the other day. Saas Fee. Hard to get to, I think. Amazing.

[Buster Highmen]

Zermatt and Sankt Moritz are the most expensive places I've ever been.

I thought Zermatt was meh for the skiing despite it's massive vert. St. Mortits (sic) was incredible - do a day at Corvatsch at least.

Is there a reason you picked Zermatt?

[smartyiak]

Is there a reason you picked Zermatt?

The only reason is: the train goes that way. Actually, we got cheap flights to Zurich...then train to Zermatt...then glacier express from Zermatt to St. Moritz...St. Moritz to Chur...Chur to Zurich. It's a circle tour of the country.

If you have a better suggestion to see as much as possible in one week...I'll take it!

[Buster Highmen]

If you have a better suggestion to see as much as possible in one week...I'll take it!

Better is a relative thing. So I'll go on as I always do about what's better for me.
There's so many great options in Yurp and most of them in Switz are easy to get to by train.
Zermatt is cool and storied and there is a ton of vertical and good skiing I'm told, but it's crowded, popular and expensive. These properties are not my idea of better. If that's your idea of the goal, then cool, go for it.

Are you going for the skiing or just the sight seeing experiences?

If going for the skiing, depending on when you go, you might consider just checking the conditions just before you fly and deciding then where to go based on conditions.
That only works during non vacation times, like January 10-Feb 5 and then during mid March onward to before Easter.

From Zurich, you can get literally anywhere in 6 hours by train.
If it's good in Austria, go there. There's a ton of train accessible places like St. Anton, Innsbruck or Bad Gastein.

If it's good in Switzerland, one interesting loop is to ride the trains through Andermatt, Disentis and on to St. Moritz (The Glacier Express).
Andermatt and Disentis are smaller. Engleberg is another option and it's huDge. Arosa/Lenzerheide is another option.

If it's good around Mt. Blanc, go to Chamonix or Courmayeur. Further into France is too much time from ZRH.

You can even get to some places in Northern Italy, but tansfers are trickier.

So, do you want exposure to bigger resorts with lots of amenities or a smaller one which can be less expensive and more relaxed?

[garyfromterrace]

Only place I skied there was Engelberg. But shit oh dear it was fucking good. Had all my avy gear with me, good thing - some locals (different ones each day) took me under their wing and showed me the goods. Day 2 was one of the top 3 lift serviced days of my life (if not the best). One run was over 7000' vert of amazing downhill ... spectacular.

[smartyiak]

Are you going for the skiing or just the sight seeing experiences?

Mostly sight seeing...in fact, I was specifically told: you ARE NOT skiing the entire vacation.

So, I bargained for 2 ski days. We are already booked for the Glacier Express from Zermatt to St. Moritz...that's really the only reason I picked those two places to ski (as it seems convenient given that we're going to definitely be in those two places)...but I am open to anything we can get to on a train...that fits within the schedule.

[digitaldeath]

engleberg

[Buster Highmen]

Mostly sight skiing...in fact, I was specifically told: you ARE NOT skiing the entire vacation.

So, I bargained for 2 ski days. We are already booked for the Glacier Express from Zermatt to St. Moritz...that's really the only reason I picked those two places to ski (as it seems convenient given that we're going to definitely be in those two places)...but I am open to anything we can get to on a train...that fits within the schedule.

Between Zermatt and Sankt Moretits, you can only directly access the following:
Grachen
Stalden
Visperterminen
Rosswald
Belalp
Bettmeralp
Fiesch
Bellwald
Obergoms
Andermatt
Disentis
Obersaxen
Flims/Laax
Corviglia/Corvatsch/Diavolezza/Lagalb


I have only skied at Andermatt, Disentis and Corvatsch. I liked Andermatt the best because of the mindblowing amount of touring one can access from a single tram.

Your non skiing wife will be happiest and your credit card the most burdened in Sankt Moretits. Corvatsch is huDge.

She may be entertained for a day in Andermatt at one of the spas or the Chedi there. The Apothek is the cool apres ski bar there.
Disentis is a 30 minute train ride from Am@. The skiing is great and check out the Disentis Abbey Monastery . Nangijala is a cool hostel/bar in Disentis.

Hire Birdo http://www.andermatt-guides.ch/en/ if you have a day around Am@. Great guy. You can tell him I sent you and ask him if he's been waxing his lederhosen.

(edit) from Interlaken, it's a short hop to Grindlewald/Murren. Big tourist locale.

[smartyiak]

That is some awesome info...thanks a TON!!!

Anyone/Everyone...keep it coming!

[detrusor]

Take a couple hours when in St Moritz and take the bus over to muottas muragl. They have a toboggan run from the top that is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. Rent a toboggan at the bottom, pull on your big girl panties and head down. It's almost 7 km, fast as you dare. Never ever would fly in the US.

[fatnslow]

Only place I skied there was Engelberg. But shit oh dear it was fucking good. Had all my avy gear with me, good thing - some locals (different ones each day) took me under their wing and showed me the goods. Day 2 was one of the top 3 lift serviced days of my life (if not the best). One run was over 7000' vert of amazing downhill ... spectacular.

It's been over 20 years but I would sell one of my kids to go spend time back in Elgelberg.

[Ripzalot]

If you only have a week, don't burn up a lot of time on trains trying to see too much. It's a small country but it does take time to navigate these mountains. Zermatt is iconic, but skiing so so. If poor weather then fewer options than many others. High alpine glacier no fun on whiteout day. St Moritz is nice but expensive and skiing is average IMHO. It's absolutely beautiful if the weather is clear.

If you are locked in then go and enjoy. From zermatt a second option would be saas fee (can day trip by bus). Also zermatt has the cervinia (Italy) side. Don't bother with the dozen or so other options nearby. From St Moritz, maybe hit Davos or flimslaax on the way back to zurich. Again there are a dozen options but those are the biggies and nearby or on the ride back towards zurich. When in chur, check out the giger bar.

If you are not locked in and flexible, follow the snow. I think going to France is just too far for a week trip out of zurich. Stick to CH or west Austria. St Anton/lechzurs if the snow is better east, Engleberg/andermatt if central, Verbier if west (could day trip over the pass to chamonix). All big major resorts with lots of options, and should not be too crowded during your week (a week before the holiday rush). Again, there are dozens of smaller station options but don't overwhelm yourself. Unless you prefer the small stations then I could suggest a few. But with small stations come no nightlife, so keep that in mind.

Keep it simple. See more of fewer places. Spend less time on public transport. My 2 centimes.

[Keef Riffhard]

Everyone's first comment about Switzerland is that it's expensive - an int'l pass at Zermatt / Cervinia will set you back 92 chf - a lot less than a dozen NA resorts that you could fit all of inside the ropes at Z/C. And if you stay 2 nights in the same hotel in St. Moritz, your ski pass (good for all the Engadin ski resorts) is 35 bucks. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Smartiak, you're getting 2 days of skiing - pick a bluebird day in Zermatt and take advantage of the world's most impressive lift system, working your way from Rothorn to Klein Matterhorn, drop into Italy for lunch, ski the long piste all the way to Cervinia. Look into the big bowls looker's left of Cime Bianche (up top) and see if they're worth a couple of runs, then head back by sunset to Zermatt. If you're talking about December, the glaciers will be a little thin for poking around, but I like a last run on the low-angle Furgg glacier just for the incredible sensation and visuals of skiing under the east face of the Matterhorn. Swing through Zum See or Blatten on the way down for a beer / snack / schnapps or hit the Hennu Stall for bad Euro-aprés. That will most likely be one of the most memorable days you've ever had on skis, covering more ground than you've ever done before.

In St. Moritz, You kind of have to pick one resort for the day - Corviglia / Piz Nair is in the sun, Corvatsch is in the shade - those are the two biggest. For a day of skiing, you can't go wrong at either. If you had more time, Diavolezza, Maloja (on a storm day) are your next options. Yes to sledding on Muottas Muragl - and if you have any local connections, the Cresta Run (private old boy's skeleton club) is epic.

Obviously if you want to maximize your experience in either Zermatt or St. Moritz, hire a mountain guide. Early-season conditions and budget may not warrant it, but it's always the best option. For 2 days of skiing on what sounds like a family sight-seeing trip, you could do a lot worse than these two resorts. Of course if you had a week+ and some flexibility in where you stay, the Glacier Express is my favorite ski lift in the world. A lot of gems along that route, some of which have already been mentioned. After a taste, I am sure you will be back.

[subtle plague]

If St Moritz is nice but expensive and skiing is average IMHO. I.

yes. The engadine is, horrible, absolutely terrible Terrain, super expensive, and the worst crowds I've seen.
ok one of that is actually true.

Ripz: The terrain is mindblowing, if they have snow which is a gamble in that area. some crazy stuff straight from the lifts or with 100m of skinning. I've spent greater parts of my 13/14 season there.

edit: but seeing the dates: uh oh. there is no snow in the foreseeable future and zermatt is the only place on the list which benefitted a bit from the south eastern stau. If you want to maximize skiing, go for a touring day at the simplon pass. right now the snowiest part of switzerland.

[Ripzalot]

Ripz: The terrain is mindblowing, if they have snow which is a gamble in that area. some crazy stuff straight from the lifts or with 100m of skinning. I've spent greater parts of my 13/14 season there.

Mind blowing? A little understated dontcha think? fair enough. I've only been there twice. It was sun baked crusty mank both times. Didn't roam far. They do claim to have the most sunny days on Switzerland. I remember it mostly for the 40chf cover charge at the nightclub.

[ADKmike]

Mostly sight seeing...in fact, I was specifically told: you ARE NOT skiing the entire vacation.

Fuckin hilarious...heard this one before.....

No beta on skiing in Switz but I was in Zurich this past summer and a coffee at starbucks was $6. Crazy expensive country

[Buster Highmen]

Mind blowing? A little understated dontcha think? fair enough. I've only been there twice. It was sun baked crusty mank both times. Didn't roam far. They do claim to have the most sunny days on Switzerland. I remember it mostly for the 40chf cover charge at the nightclub.

C'mon, as an expat des Etats-Unis, how an you begin to hint that Corvatsch/Corviglia/Diavolleza/La Galb isn't mindblowing compared with anything in NA?

Even on the groomers, it's a blast and if one goes even simple sidecountry, it's amazing. There's a shitload of acreage encompassed by these 4 areas.
I've read that snow can be thin, but the Engadin is high, so when they get coverage, it stays. Plus, if he's got a nonskiing wife, she can spend several days cruising the sn00tiest shopping this side of Rodeo Drive.

Honestly, I expected San Moritz to be kind of bleh, but I was blown away at the amount of gnarr and sidecountry. Then again, I don't do nightclubs that charge 40CHF.

[GoldMember]

I can't offer anything on the skiing as I've only been in CH in the summer but, it's spectacular. As Buster noted, Interlaken and into the Lauterbrunnen Valley is easy by train; short trips to Wengen, Grindelwald, or Murren. Murren is on the opposite side of the valley and is a little more difficult to get to (train to cable car to short train) but sits on top of a 2,000' cliff and gives access to Schilthorn. Having said that, Murren is my very favorite place I've ever been. We spent a week there, hiking and hanging out. It is expensive but, you're paying to go to CH so what's a little extra cost when compared to spending time at, what I feel, is the most beautiful place on the planet.

I've been to CH 4 times and keep going back to the Interlaken area. Zermatt is cool; spendy but cool. St. Moritz in the summer was...okay. Chamonix and the Agui du Midi was pretty cool and not too far off the path but I wouldn't go any further into France. Again, not skiing gives a totally different perspective but I wouldn't miss the Lauterbrunnen Valley if I were offering advice.

[Buster Highmen]

Hey you euro-inhabitants, what about Chur? Is it a dump? Neat place?
From a position of complete ignorance, it seems like it might be a cool place to base out of for a while. It's the oldest city in CH and central to accessing Lenzerheide and Davos and even Sankt Moritz.

[Alkares]

Hey you euro-inhabitants, what about Chur? Is it a dump? Neat place?
From a position of complete ignorance, it seems like it might be a cool place to base out of for a while. It's the oldest city in CH and central to accessing Lenzerheide and Davos and even Sankt Moritz.

For me Chur is pretty MEH, I wouldn't call it a dump but it's definitely not great either. Lenzerheide is pretty flat, Arosa is better of the two. The Engadin is a 1 1/2 hour drive away, which is alright I guess for US standards, but most locals won't consider that unless its a deep day.

If you were to be based somewhere in the Rheintal, I'd recomend Feldkirch, it has a nicer old town, cheaper and with better access. The Arlberg ist 1/2 hour away, Schruns and Montafon 30 - 45 mins depending on traffic. You could easily ski for 2 days in the Arlberg for the price of 1 day in St. Moritz. Just my .02.

[Rip'nStick]

Have fun in St Moretits Yeah, there are some amazing hotties there. Bring sunglasses.

When I travel, I go to explore so terrain and mountain huts with views and good beer are high on the list. Skiing happens to be a great way to explore.

Got nothing to add since it was a long time ago, but damn

[comish]

I have a slightly contrary opinion on Zermatt. It is expensive, yes. It is not crowded in my opinion, and I have been there New Years.

There is some pretty darn cool terrain as well. Hohtalli, Stockhorn (usually doesn't open till Feb/March), and Rote Nase are great North facing terrain. Not kill yourself sick, but solid pitch, very uncrowded long runs. The tree skiing around Shwarszee is also good.

It is also one of the most beautiful ski resorts in the world. Skiing under the Matterhorn, or next to one of the humongous glaciers is an amazing experience. The food is fantastic (although expensive), skiing to Italy for lunch is also a very cool/unique experience.

As a first time trip to the Alps with a non-skier in tow, wanting something not totally gnar, I actually think Zermatt is pretty amazing. Snow is guaranteed, although likely not pow as its on the drier side, but its got plenty of elevations so what snow that falls stays good.

Its not a small, undiscovered, powder filled gem, of which there are many in the Alps which is another very cool experience, but those that I know that have come from the US and never skied the Alps usually come away from Zermatt having had a great experience, assuming they have a few $$$ as that is the primary catch.

[Toadman]

Did a week in Zermatt for Xmas a few years back. Very good ski conditions that particular year. I hear Cervinia has better conditions ATM though. The skiing isn't too shabby but you would need a guide for the better bits, and not to get lost or if you happen to fall into a crevasse, someone to help get you out. The town is uber pretty at Xmas time too. Good food, and lots of champagne. If you want lunch in Zermatt, make reservations for Chez Vrony on the mountain. One of the top dining experiences of my life. And I've eaten at some pretty good places from Maui to Paris, down Buenos Aries way.



Not mentioned is Grindelwald/Wengen/Muerren. Also super pretty. Not extreme skiing. But it's pretty cool to get to the top of a Swiss ski resort, by train, or funicular, or gondola, or tram, or chair lift. Heck, heli, or hike, or maybe hire a horse drawn carriage. Try raclette, and fondue. Drink some local brews. Eat some swiss chocolate. Have fun!

[subtle plague]

Mind blowing? A little understated dontcha think? fair enough. I've only been there twice. It was sun baked crusty mank both times. Didn't roam far. They do claim to have the most sunny days on Switzerland. I remember it mostly for the 40chf cover charge at the nightclub.

Not everything is easy access or "fun" but i mean you can get to the engadine snowthrill face with a 15min hike/hikerse and 150m skin from the top will get you to s,ome of the mostest extremest stuff you can find in the alps. (real corvatsch north face...) or the "easy" NW couloir with a mellow 48° entry:

The normal stuff from the lifts is pretty neat as well.

Diavolezza/Lagalb are around as well.