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  1. #351
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
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    60
    186 BO 118s are one of my favorite skis of all time.

    I don't even think about On3p Billy Goats anymore, not even 2014s. BO118s do everything all the BGs did for me (loosey goosey, but straight down the fall line, plow over anything) and then some (except not quite as chargey as 191 BGs, but close). They basically took over my 190 Wildcat quiver spot too, because they are so versatile. I do wish they were longer, but it is what it is. They charge fairly hard and can be driven well for such a short, center mounted ski.

    How are the 2025 Sender Free 118s? Looks like more air tip going on, did that ruin any of the magic?

  2. #352
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
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    438
    Forgot to post that Blister Review posted a flash review on the new Sender Free 118. They confirmed that basically the only difference is the graphics and the rubber sheets starting lower in the tips/tails to show off the AirTips(which sound like they have been there for years but totally covered with that rubber sheet before).
    They didn’t add the metal sheet underfoot like I assumed they would like in the SF 110 and instead are keeping the ABS like in the Swamps/Tatums.

    Blister posted weights of their SF 118 and they averaged about 2495gr(2457 & 2533gr) with a large 76gr difference between the set. Their original set of BO 118(before the swamps) weighed less, so probably more difference between random pairs within a year than between the years it looks like still.

    So the SF 118 is a Blackops 118 with a different top sheet with easier to see through tips.

  3. #353
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Man there are some good deals on BO118s right now. Must...resist....

  4. #354
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
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    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Man there are some good deals on BO118s right now. Must...resist....
    You really shouldn’t. I think you’ll really like them and you’ll certainly get plenty of opportunities to use them (pretty sure you’re LCC?). I’ve debated getting a backup pair myself but talked myself off the ledge more than a few times. Certainly helps knowing the next version retains the same qualities when I eventually need a replacement pair.

    Aside: what’s the closest ski to the BO118s in a ~100 waist? Doesn’t seem like the BO98s are quite the same? Blade Optics?

  5. #355
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    Oct 2003
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    I think I'd get along with the 118 *very* well. But, I just spent my life savings going to AK and picked up a pair of Sender 94 Ti's for spring skiing. Just can't justify it right now, especially since it looks like they'll be around for a while.

    Haven't gotten to ski the Sender 94 yet. They were only $340 from BlueZone, smoking deal.

  6. #356
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
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    60
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    Forgot to post that Blister Review posted a flash review on the new Sender Free 118. They confirmed that basically the only difference is the graphics and the rubber sheets starting lower in the tips/tails to show off the AirTips(which sound like they have been there for years but totally covered with that rubber sheet before).
    They didn’t add the metal sheet underfoot like I assumed they would like in the SF 110 and instead are keeping the ABS like in the Swamps/Tatums.

    Blister posted weights of their SF 118 and they averaged about 2495gr(2457 & 2533gr) with a large 76gr difference between the set. Their original set of BO 118(before the swamps) weighed less, so probably more difference between random pairs within a year than between the years it looks like still.

    So the SF 118 is a Blackops 118 with a different top sheet with easier to see through tips.
    Yo it’s Vail. Can’t login to my last account.

    I owe it to you for my BO118 experience. Amazing skis. Thanks again. Thanks for the sparknotes on Blister SF118 flash review too. Sounds like I don’t have to worry going into the future. Still wanna hoard Swamps though.

    BO118s are my favorite 115-120mm skis ever. Beating out Wildcats, Obsetheds, Bodacious, and custom Rx.

    I find the BO118s more of a plow than everything I just listed except the 196 Bodacious. The 186 BO 118 is more confidence inspiring though, when plowing over chunder, compared to the 186 Bodacious.. just can’t “lean into” the BO118s quite as much with the centered mount.

    However, because of that centered mount they are wayyy more jibby than any of the skis I listed. Probably the most jibby wide skis I’ve ever skied, more than K2 Shreditor 112 or On3p Kartels. BO118s are exactly what I wanted the Kartel 116s to be, with a magic dusting of Billy Goat performance sprinkled in.

    I forget exactly where I mounted, although you might remember. I think I’m close to -3 or -3.5cm from true center. I have no issues in powder, they are my go-to powder skis. I’m going to sell my ARG IIs because they perform similarly (neither can be leaned into super hard like a bigger, directional ski), like fall line rollerblades through the tightest trees (both can also straightline wide open terrain well) in any deep snow or deep chunder.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Man there are some good deals on BO118s right now. Must...resist....
    What are the best deals you’ve seen?

  7. #357
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    Oct 2003
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    slc
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    Evo, L9, BC.com, and SkiEssentials all have the 186 for $550.

  8. #358
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    438
    Places in Canada with the Blackops 118 at $569 CAN right now with free shipping within Canada. SportChek back up to $474 CAN but only have the 176cm in stock. Had them under $300 CAN a few weeks ago!

  9. #359
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by forumskier View Post
    Yo it’s Vail. Can’t login to my last account.

    I owe it to you for my BO118 experience. Amazing skis. Thanks again. Thanks for the sparknotes on Blister SF118 flash review too. Sounds like I don’t have to worry going into the future. Still wanna hoard Swamps though.

    BO118s are my favorite 115-120mm skis ever. Beating out Wildcats, Obsetheds, Bodacious, and custom Rx.

    I find the BO118s more of a plow than everything I just listed except the 196 Bodacious. The 186 BO 118 is more confidence inspiring though, when plowing over chunder, compared to the 186 Bodacious.. just can’t “lean into” the BO118s quite as much with the centered mount.

    However, because of that centered mount they are wayyy more jibby than any of the skis I listed. Probably the most jibby wide skis I’ve ever skied, more than K2 Shreditor 112 or On3p Kartels. BO118s are exactly what I wanted the Kartel 116s to be, with a magic dusting of Billy Goat performance sprinkled in.

    I forget exactly where I mounted, although you might remember. I think I’m close to -3 or -3.5cm from true center. I have no issues in powder, they are my go-to powder skis. I’m going to sell my ARG IIs because they perform similarly (neither can be leaned into super hard like a bigger, directional ski), like fall line rollerblades through the tightest trees (both can also straightline wide open terrain well) in any deep snow or deep chunder.




    What are the best deals you’ve seen?
    Was thinking of you a few times during the year wondering how you were liking then! Think you were about -1cm back from rec/-3.5cm total IIRC.

    Was able to talk to multiple 192cm Blackops 98 owners over the season and all loved them. Was able to hand flex them in some shops too vs the 182cm and like Soothski tested, just a bit stiffer overall but still very playful tip/tail.
    Actually brought my scale to Corbett’s and weighed their whole 182cm stock to grab the heaviest set for myself but won’t try them till next season. They have 3 pairs of 192cm remaining that I’m sure you could get an insane deal from my contact there. Let me know if you need his info again.

  10. #360
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    Places in Canada with the Blackops 118 at $569 CAN right now with free shipping within Canada. SportChek back up to $474 CAN but only have the 176cm in stock. Had them under $300 CAN a few weeks ago!
    Damn. What places have the 186?

    BlueZone has the 176 for $519 and are running a sitewide 25% off sale that stacks. Brings it down to $390 with free shipping and they don't charge sales tax.

  11. #361
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Last Best City in the Last Best Place
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    Sure wish they made a ~180. 176 seems short but 186 seems awfully heavy for my aging knees. Anybody on the 176? I'm really curious about this ski as a replacement for my beaten and battered 2018 Pinnacle 118s. Favorite pow ski ever.

  12. #362
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    438
    Skiis &Bikes have them on for $569 in Canada.

    https://skiisandbiikes.com/products/...s-118-ski-2023


    Corbetts and others with the same price on the 176cm.

  13. #363
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    Sure wish they made a ~180. 176 seems short but 186 seems awfully heavy for my aging knees. Anybody on the 176? I'm really curious about this ski as a replacement for my beaten and battered 2018 Pinnacle 118s. Favorite pow ski ever.
    What’s your size and what length are the Pinnacle 118?

    If you mount the BO 118 back -3cm to -4cm in either size, it would ski longer but still be playful.

  14. #364
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Last Best City in the Last Best Place
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    I'm 5'8" 165 pds. Pinnacles are 177 but K2 measurements are true, even conservative. The 177 K2s are longer than some supposedly 180 skis I have. Fairly heavy too, 2350g, they crush chop. I think they made them lighter after that year.

    Anyway I would be curious to know if the 176 measurement is accurate. According to Blister the 186 measures a couple cm short at 184.2. I wonder if that applies to the 176 as well.

  15. #365
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    96
    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    Anyway I would be curious to know if the 176 measurement is accurate. According to Blister the 186 measures a couple cm short at 184.2. I wonder if that applies to the 176 as well.
    After seeing Blister's measurements on the various M-frees, I'm not sure I'd trust any Rossignol ski without someone measuring it with a tape measure. Apparently the 182 M-free 108 measured at 181.5, but the 192 measured at 189.7. To top it off, the 185 M-free 99 also measured at 181.5. Makes me feel like they just slap any length on the ski they want, regardless of the actual measured length.

    So since Rossignol is the same company, caveat emptor I would say.

  16. #366
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
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    438
    I bet the 176cm Blackops 118 would tape measure around 174cm if I had to guess like most twins not named K2 or ON3P.

    If you’re used to a 177cm K2 with a more traditional mount and some weight behind it, I’d think the 176cm BO 118 even mounted back from rec would feel short. The 186cm closer to rec though might be fine as it will “ski shorter” mounted forward. 186cm BO 118 right around 184cm tape measure.

    Blister guys in the 160lb range are skiing the 186cm at -2cm/-4.5cm total without issue.

  17. #367
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
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    60
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    Was thinking of you a few times during the year wondering how you were liking then! Think you were about -1cm back from rec/-3.5cm total IIRC.

    Was able to talk to multiple 192cm Blackops 98 owners over the season and all loved them. Was able to hand flex them in some shops too vs the 182cm and like Soothski tested, just a bit stiffer overall but still very playful tip/tail.
    Actually brought my scale to Corbett’s and weighed their whole 182cm stock to grab the heaviest set for myself but won’t try them till next season. They have 3 pairs of 192cm remaining that I’m sure you could get an insane deal from my contact there. Let me know if you need his info again.
    I'm still hesitant on the BO98s. I didn't demo them this season. When I saw them at the shop, they reminded me too much of the 189 Kung Fujas that I didn't jive with. Most reviews say they are not simply thinner Blackops 118s, however a lot of reviews are positive. I would buy whatever ski is a thinner BO118s. Should never have sold 187 Menace 98s, although that ski was slightly too soft.

    IDK if I can still see 192 BO98s directly replacing 2015 Mantras either. I could be wrong, I should have demoed a set.

    I did just grab some Blackops Sender Squads today though. It was a no brainer on sale.

    How did you like the Sender Free 110s? I'm going to have to find some of your posts and read through them.

  18. #368
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
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    438
    Quote Originally Posted by forumskier View Post
    I'm still hesitant on the BO98s. I didn't demo them this season. When I saw them at the shop, they reminded me too much of the 189 Kung Fujas that I didn't jive with. Most reviews say they are not simply thinner Blackops 118s, however a lot of reviews are positive. I would buy whatever ski is a thinner BO118s. Should never have sold 187 Menace 98s, although that ski was slightly too soft.

    IDK if I can still see 192 BO98s directly replacing 2015 Mantras either. I could be wrong, I should have demoed a set.

    I did just grab some Blackops Sender Squads today though. It was a no brainer on sale.

    How did you like the Sender Free 110s? I'm going to have to find some of your posts and read through them.
    As I’ve said before, the BO 98 is a stiffer(especially torsionally)Menace 98 with better sloped tips for passing over crud. It’s your ski.

    Sender Free 110 are a slightly stiffer, more precise and faster edge to edge Blackops 118. Not quite as damp as them but very similar feel. The 191cm Sender Free 110 will be more stable than the 185cm BO 118 and more playful than a Sender Squad. You’d love the 191cm I’m sure of the SF 110.

  19. #369
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Lapping the pow with the GSA in the PNW
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    5,199
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    I bet the 176cm Blackops 118 would tape measure around 174cm if I had to guess like most twins not named K2 or ON3P.

    If you’re used to a 177cm K2 with a more traditional mount and some weight behind it, I’d think the 176cm BO 118 even mounted back from rec would feel short. The 186cm closer to rec though might be fine as it will “ski shorter” mounted forward. 186cm BO 118 right around 184cm tape measure.

    Blister guys in the 160lb range are skiing the 186cm at -2cm/-4.5cm total without issue.
    Got my kid some 176’s at a too good to pass up price. They measure 174-cm, as suspected.


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  20. #370
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
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    60
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    As I’ve said before, the BO 98 is a stiffer(especially torsionally)Menace 98 with better sloped tips for passing over crud. It’s your ski.

    Sender Free 110 are a slightly stiffer, more precise and faster edge to edge Blackops 118. Not quite as damp as them but very similar feel. The 191cm Sender Free 110 will be more stable than the 185cm BO 118 and more playful than a Sender Squad. You’d love the 191cm I’m sure of the SF 110.
    I want SF110 for sure. I regret not demoing those more than BO98. I can get deals on 18Xcm SF110, and part of me is thinking they would be fun shorties for me. Versus the new 184 Reckoner 110.

    A lot also to do with length on my BO98 hesitance. They seemed a bit long for a jib stick in the 192, specifically for being as creative as possible and learning new stuff. I like the shorter length 187 Menaces and 186 BO118s for that, and I’m less sensitive to a heavier ski affecting that than length.

    In the shop BO98s felt like noodles compared to Wildcat 108s. My WCs feel like comp skis, no way BO as stable. And I’d prefer other shorter skis for fun…If I can find 98s for $300 new maybe I’d jump on them, since I AM on a rossi/dynastar binge lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit Man View Post
    Got my kid some 176’s at a too good to pass up price. They measure 174-cm, as suspected.

    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
    Nice score! What a cool dad. These things are like 2014 Billy Goats mixed with Dynastar Slicers.

  21. #371
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    2,325
    Quote Originally Posted by forumskier View Post
    In the shop BO98s felt like noodles compared to Wildcat 108s. My WCs feel like comp skis, no way BO as stable. And I’d prefer other shorter skis for fun…If I can find 98s for $300 new maybe I’d jump on them, since I AM on a rossi/dynastar binge lately.
    BO98s are certainly not noodles - they are in fact fairly supportive underfoot if relatively soft in their rockered section (which are all rubber). The underfoot support is delivered through their construction, not only their flex pattern. Their ride feel is akin to BO118s in that they are fairly damp for their segment. WCs are planky, while wc108s are hardly super stiff - BO118 and SF110 should have better suspension than either within their respective segments.

    there are very few skis like the 192 BO98 on the market. Their combination of shape, mount point and construction (heavy use of rubber and titanal underfoot) is somewhat unique imho. Sure, you need to be a fairly strong skier to make them your play sticks, and they can haul too.

    I am frankly surprised at how well I get on with my BO98 + SF110 + BO118 quiver. They are all so freaking versatile - pack a punch while also being loose.

  22. #372
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
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    438
    Agree with kid-kapow that the 192cm BO 98 would outperform a 190cm Wildcat 108 or 101 as far as suspension and being quiet on the snow goes. Soothski doesn’t have the current 190cm Wildcats but have the 190cm Bibby on there and it’s shockingly similar flex pattern to the 192cm BO 98.
    BO 98 just a bit softer tip/tail and it doesn’t ramp up quite as quickly as Moments do but very similar underfoot. 192cm BO 98 softer tip/tail than the 186cm BO 118 but the 98 noticeably stiffer underfoot.
    So with hand flexing you’re just feeling the softer tips/tails that rise less abruptly in stiffness vs Moments.

    Bet the stability of the 192cm BO 98 would be similar as well to the narrower Wildcats as the BO uses a multi radius sidecuts. Lots of stability when flat but initiate turns easier.

    If you mounted the 192cm BO 98 around -3cm back from Center(+2cm from rec) it would be plenty playful for a larger skier.

    I love my 184cm Sender Free 110 mounted back -3cm as it’s very fun even at moderate speeds and super easy in tight spots for my 175lbs. Should be more precise than the K2 Reckoner 110 but less loose and more substantial than the old 112. Should be 2-3cm longer than the Sender Free 110 in the 184cm though as the SF 110 is only 181.5cm Tape measure.

  23. #373
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    I think this graphic is very interesting. Just look at the radii -25m in the shovel, 26m underfoot 22m in the rear. That an a supportive shovel = they do what you tell them to, but are not inherently turny. I dunno - I looked at that infographic and thought "ah, so that is why I love em so much". Strong section underfoot with titanal, rubber aft/up front and a flex pattern that lets you easily unlock the looseness in the design as given by the rocker lines and mount point.

    So dead easy to ski most of the time, yet capable and very willing to play for stronger skiers. Dialed ski.

  24. #374
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Sweden
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    92
    I've looked at the BO118 for ages but never pulled the trigger. Now they're on sale and hard to resist. Not crazy cheap, but decent price.

    Thing is, I've got a pair of unmounted OG Squad7 from like 12/13 lying around. Heavy, damp, rubbery with similar construction and dimensions. But loads of taper and a more rearward mount (drilled on rec, looks about -6 cm from true center).

    Anyone who knows how they compare? Similar ride? Worth the upgrade?

  25. #375
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
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    60
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    Agree with kid-kapow that the 192cm BO 98 would outperform a 190cm Wildcat 108 or 101 as far as suspension and being quiet on the snow goes. Soothski doesn’t have the current 190cm Wildcats but have the 190cm Bibby on there and it’s shockingly similar flex pattern to the 192cm BO 98.
    BO 98 just a bit softer tip/tail and it doesn’t ramp up quite as quickly as Moments do but very similar underfoot. 192cm BO 98 softer tip/tail than the 186cm BO 118 but the 98 noticeably stiffer underfoot.
    So with hand flexing you’re just feeling the softer tips/tails that rise less abruptly in stiffness vs Moments.

    Bet the stability of the 192cm BO 98 would be similar as well to the narrower Wildcats as the BO uses a multi radius sidecuts. Lots of stability when flat but initiate turns easier.

    If you mounted the 192cm BO 98 around -3cm back from Center(+2cm from rec) it would be plenty playful for a larger skier.

    I love my 184cm Sender Free 110 mounted back -3cm as it’s very fun even at moderate speeds and super easy in tight spots for my 175lbs. Should be more precise than the K2 Reckoner 110 but less loose and more substantial than the old 112. Should be 2-3cm longer than the Sender Free 110 in the 184cm though as the SF 110 is only 181.5cm Tape measure.
    If you read the Blister Buyers Guide from like 2021, the free one, they rank the 190 Wildcat 108 quite a few steps above 192 Blackops 98 in terms of stability. That was also back when the Wildcat 108 was a decent bit lighter with the different layup.

    I also thought I saw on blister somewhere them talking about the Menace 98s being noticeably more damp than BO98s. But I believe that was comparing the shorter 182cm-ish versions. Idk if the BO98s gets beefier as it goes to 192cm.

    On snow, I’m pretty much just as fast on WC108s as I am on Katana 108s. WCs ski on snow stiffer than my M4 Mantras or Katana 108s, are more demanding, and are more predictable for me without full rocker/3D radius. If BO98s come close to that, while being more playful, that’s impressive

    The WCs are obviously less damp than the Volkls I listed due to lighter weight and no metal, but it doesnt affect me much. Greg we talked about this, I may just “get along” with WC design perfectly.

    I just don’t find WC108s very playful, besides from the rocker profile. To me, WC108s feel like comp skis designed to throw big tricks over big features at 50mph. I love the WCs, but I do want something similar, that’s significantly more accessible in the tip/tail without giving up much stability. That’s were the BO98 might win me over.

    But again for me, if the ski is going to be solely for “freestyle” mindset, I’d rather it be around 185-187cm true length. A stiffer 187 Menace 98 would be money I think.

    The Sender Squads were a much easier purchase. No overthinking necessary. Lemme find some BO98s for $300 this summer, then I don’t have to overthink.

    Don’t get me wrong, I trust you and Kid Kapow, but my gut is screaming at me “don’t buy em” for some reason..

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