Praxis Quixote - Jumped the Shark or Legit?

[SupreChicken]

On BG vs Q - I think another reason you see more wins with the BG is the lack of room for debate on mount point with an RES design.

[Self Jupiter]

On BG vs Q - I think another reason you see more wins with the BG is the lack of room for debate on mount point with an RES design.

Agreed. I had typed out a comment on the mounting discussion, and it went something like this: Ski companies and their vendors do not want a mounting line debate/discussion if there is any way they can avoid it. If we, the greatest skiers on the mountain 🥇 have issues dialing mount point, then we must think of the dentists.

The 4frnt Renegade is crazy sensitive to mounting point IME, and that ski does have a ‘recommended range’ of 3 cm, from -5 to -7cm from center. And I personally can’t seem to notice the performance differences between skis mounted with frame bindings and alpine binders, so I wouldn’t call myself a sensitive sensei.

[undertow2]

Yeah, full on in agreement here, Q’s could easily be a one ski quiver if you ski where a majority of your are days soft. They’re fuckin rad. Totally agree with Foggy that it probably is too easy to outsmart oneself with all the custom options, I would probably build 80% of my Praxis skis differently now that I’ve gone through the experience several times over. In a way I also agree a bit with Bandit but on the other side of the spectrum, I’ve always just clicked with Praxis skis and that (along with their ridiculous quality, phenomenal customer interaction, and of course all those build options and preseason sales) is why I continue to not stray far away, especially when I’m spending that kind of coin. If I hadn’t clicked so well with my first pair I probably wouldn’t have gone back, not because I wouldn’t want to try another pair, but because that’s a grip of money to take chances with. I would like to hear more on Undertow’s statement about the Supergoat, that is a ski that I very much want to have.

Eskido,

I will go a little deeper into my response, but Shu nailed it with the below comment:

The primary function of the BG is a pow ski, with iterative development over the years to make it more manageable on 2d snow. The primary function of the Q or the GPO is as a wide all mountain ski. It really depends on what spot your looking to fill in your quiver.

To date the absolute best POW ski I have been on is my 196 Renegade and have yet to ride a better ski when we are talking straight untouched POW... Once the snow becomes cut up and small moguls begin to form the Ren becomes a great deal of work... To me it is extremely one dimensional... The next best POW ski I have been on and have owned several versions is the Billygoat... For me the GPO and Q are a jack of all trades ski and do extremely well in all conditions with really no weaknesses... With that said if I know it is going to be a straight POW day than the SuperGoats get the call... Billygoats design (RES) gives the tips a very frictionless surfy feeling that I have not experienced with any other ski other than my Renegades... I keep up with the ON3P thread and I have been reading from some of the mags that the Billy plows in POW and that is polar opposite of my experience... There are a ton of POW skis out there that are a blast, but all of my Billys have provided me with a feel and experience in skiing POW that only my Rens offered... And I have yet to ski a better ski in PNW cement... No doubt if I was making a trip to Japan than my SuperGoats would be in the bag... Obviously there is a great deal of love for the Billy, but there are plenty that have had a hard time connecting with it... Like several of the skis talked about on this board (Billy, Bobby Pro, Q, GPO, Lashas) there is always a great deal of hype around them and you will have those that love them and those that don't understand them... I owned the 190 Bibby Pro due to all of the love people on this board gave them and after a full day of skiing on them I found them extremely boring and just did not understand the reason for the love... To each their own...!

With that said I love both my GPOs and Qs... Both of these skis are like a Swiss Army knife - do well at everything and have no real weaknesses... Either one makes a great travel ski and will never fail me on a trip... I know when I pull either of these skis out I will be able to ski mellow terrain with the family, POW, spring cream cheese and corn, zoomer groomers, trees and steep lines... I am not saying the Billy cannot do this as well, but they are definitely more of a POW/post day cut up POW ski... The last Praxis purchase I made was when Keith did the first run of the Q so at that time there was not a choice of cores... All of my builds are with the enduro and I would absolutely love to try the heavy hitter as I feel this would suite my skiing style a bit better...

I hope this info helps and trust me I will find it hard to believe you would abandon your Praxis quiver when you get a shot at skiing the Billy/SG... Again, it is a great ski and so are all of your Praxis's you are rocking it is just not that unicorn ski that it has been made out to be... I kind of look at the Protest in the same light as many here claim it to be the second coming of god when skiing POW and I am sure it is great, but it is no unicorn POW ski...

[auvgeek]

Nice review -- I think you hit the nail on the head at least in my experience of the 194 GPO and 191 BG. Really want to try a Q.

I bet you'd like the C&D, too! With the newer rocker, I bet it blends the best of the BG and Ren/Protest for a lot of people.

I loved the Ren like you, and actually thought it was pretty versatile, but the BG was just better in every way except hard snow (weirdly IMHO). But yeah, I haven't personally experienced the BG plowing, but I'm not a big guy and my BGs are stiffer than stock.

[Foggy_Goggles]

undertow and shu say what I have been try to say better.

[2FUNKY]

Nice review -- I think you hit the nail on the head at least in my experience of the 194 GPO and 191 BG. Really want to try a Q.

I bet you'd like the C&D, too! With the newer rocker, I bet it blends the best of the BG and Ren/Protest for a lot of people.

I loved the Ren like you, and actually thought it was pretty versatile, but the BG was just better in every way except hard snow (weirdly IMHO). But yeah, if the BG is plowing, you're definitely not going fast enough.

So what’s fast enough? As others on this forum can attest, I don’t do slow and have had the tips push back/plow/slowing feeling in untracked lighter deep pow. That’s the 191 though and have heard the new 189 fixes that.

The C&D really piques my interest since the ProTest is my go to pow ski. It crushes pow and shitty conditions. It’s just so easy to ski at high speed, or slow, and is absolutely frictionless in pow.

[auvgeek]

So what’s fast enough? As others on this forum can attest, I don’t do slow and have had the tips push back/plow/slowing feeling in untracked lighter deep pow. That’s the 191 though and have heard the new 189 fixes that.

that's my bad, funky. I'm not a big guy (5'11", 160-165#), and my 191 BGs are stiffer than stock -- I bet those two factors mean the ski either planes or submerges but not plows. I really do try to avoid making absolutist statements like that, but sometimes I think only about my experience and forget to generalize it or put a disclaimer on it. Anyway, edited.

At your size, I bet you'd prefer a C&D in some kind of heavier/stiffer build.

[Self Jupiter]

So what’s fast enough? As others on this forum can attest, I don’t do slow and have had the tips push back/plow/slowing feeling in untracked lighter deep pow. That’s the 191 though and have heard the new 189 fixes that.

The C&D really piques my interest since the ProTest is my go to pow ski. It crushes pow and shitty conditions. It’s just so easy to ski at high speed, or slow, and is absolutely frictionless in pow.

What’s yo BSL? You gotta try some Renegades, if you haven’t alreAdy

[2FUNKY]

that's my bad, funky. I'm not a big guy (5'11", 160-165#), and my 191s are stiffer than stock -- I bet those two factors mean the ski either planes or submerges but not plows. I really do try to avoid making absolutist statements like that, but sometimes I think only about my experience and forget to generalize it or put a disclaimer on it. Anyway, edited.

At your size, I bet you'd prefer a C&D in some kind of heavier/stiffer build.

It’s all good man. It just got me curious as you’re the second person in this thread to say that in reference to speed. I bet the supa stiff does kick ass and would better suit me.

What’s yo BSL? You gotta try some Renegades, if you haven’t alreAdy

306 and I have not. Really would like to try them but the demo availability in my area is sub par.

[auvgeek]

It’s all good man. It just got me curious as you’re the second person in this thread to say that in reference to speed. I bet the supa stiff does kick ass and would better suit me.


306

If we ever ski together, you'll fit into them. And you'll fit in my 202 Lotus 138s.

[Self Jupiter]

It’s all good man. It just got me curious as you’re the second person in this thread to say that in reference to speed. I bet the supa stiff does kick ass and would better suit me.


306 and I have not. Really would like to try them but the demo availability in my area is sub par.

I am at 295 BSL on my pair with STh 2s. Pretty sure we could move the heel track back and you could use mine? I’ll look into it

[2FUNKY]

Awesome!! Hope one day we can.

[tpacent]

Having never skied the Q, I feel like it is the GPO trend all over again. "Hey this is Alto's/Tabke"s ski! It's going to do it ALL!" Guys go all in during the summer pre-sale and then Q's end up all over Gear Swap once the snow starts. Same thing happened with the GPO's (which I did own). Not saying that Praxis makes bad skis, but there is SO much hype around these can they ever live up to expectations? I for one have had a tough time finding a Praxis ski that works for me. Maybe I just don't have the patience to learn how to ski a Praxis ski?

I am in the same boat. I like damp heavy skis. Keith is awesome and the Q, MVP and GPO are all skis that on paper seemed to be the ski for me, but the BG, Bibby pro and now a custom heavy Folsom hammer have been the ticket.

[eskido]

Undertow, thanks!! Phenomenal comparisons, exactly what I was looking for!
Shu, like Foggy said, that was one of the most well put posts I’ve ever read, could not agree more!

[Jim S]

Hi gang, long time no see. Hope yer well and....

Having never skied the Q, I feel like it is the GPO trend all over again. "Hey this is Alto's/Tabke"s ski! It's going to do it ALL!" Guys go all in during the summer pre-sale and then Q's end up all over Gear Swap once the snow starts. Same thing happened with the GPO's (which I did own). Not saying that Praxis makes bad skis, but there is SO much hype around these can they ever live up to expectations?

Hype. Few things live up to it. Except a great set of boobs. But I digress.

Quixote
Q 188 I find is the MOST successfully versatile ski in all conditions.
It rails groomers and park, plays in pow, machs through crud, great in spring conditions, not fatiguing. There may be skis that do one or two of those better, or all three, but the Q is a great ski by anybody's metric. And it's forgiving of rider error. There have been a few times where it's inspired my confidence so much that I came close to bailing but did not. Much to my grateful surprise.

GPO
Sometimes I prefer my 187 GPO to the Q but that's because I've been on it for sooooooo many seasons that skiing it is second nature to me. It does not carve hardback or ski groomers back to the lift as well but certainly slices through the junk and is a great pow ski.

3d Pow and Protest are amazing too but certainly not as versatile.

I for one have had a tough time finding a Praxis ski that works for me. Maybe I just don't have the patience to learn how to ski a Praxis ski?

Nah. Also, there are so many darn Praxis models now I would not generalize. Not every ski is for everybody. And as an Eleventh Commandments, Praxis mounting points often need to be skewed toward the skier's idiosyncratic traits. That's why I put a Marker Schizo's** on nearly any new ski to dial it in.

**(I'm on the wrong side of 50yo with less than good knees so no more TGR testerone plutonium airs for me.).

[skibrd]

With all the Q v Protest comparisons, and owning both, I feel like I can chime in here. I won’t chime in on Praxis v ON3P since my lack of love for ON3P, probably due to being on old dead models, is well documented.

The Protest is by far my favorite pow ski, hands down, it’s the best, easiest, the list goes on, but it’s a pow ski. It’s the only (I screwed up my baggage weight, there will be a trip report sometime early February) ski I have with me in Japan right now. For Japan, and just skiing pow, it’s awesome, but that doesn’t make it the best ski for any soft snow. For example, the Protests would be the third or fourth ski I grabbed for a trip to AK behind 203 cm Völkl Shiros, 196 Super Freerides, 194 Qs and maybe 202 Ranger 108s. All those bring different things to the table I’m not sure the Protest can do as well, and if you notice, the Protest is 10mm wider then all those.

If I had planned on bringing only 1 ski to Japan, it probably would of been the Q because it’s just easy and does everything. Is it as good in the super deep as the Protest, no, is it as good skiing around chopped up groomers as something narrower and stiffer, no, but if you have to compromise, it comprises best, if that makes sense? Versatile gets over used for skis a lot, but it’s the best way to describe the Q. It’s the most versatile fat ski I’ve been on.


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[powdrhound]

I will Finally get to try my Q’s in real powder today!

Edit:


Ok. That was fun.
Bear Valley, Home Run.

Moved them back a click, now on the dot. Twisting the trees quite well, the steep stuff was magic.

[3PinGrin]

I searched the thread but didn't find a direct comparison for the 184 bibby pro to a 182 Q. One left in stock in that size and Keith says the Q would probably ski a bit longer than the bibby. I like the bibby at that length and am not a fan of real long skis. That being said I'm 6' 170ish lbs (closer to 165 right now), anyone skied both in the lengths of interest? Keith prefers the Q in the 182 but I don't know how much he weighs. Probably follow up with him on that but thought I would get some input here first. Am I really missing out by not having an extra 6cm (seems pretty miniscule). I also tour on a 175 BD Route 105 and have no problems with the shorter length. I do tend to prefer steep trees on a powder day when I can get em.

[galibier_numero_un]

I haven't skied the Bibbys, but he Qs ski slightly longer than GPOs, in harder pack snow. In soft snow however, they initiate equally quickly but differently. The GPOs initiate with more of a pivot, and the Qs like a bit of an edge initiation - at least the way I ski them. Once you start a turn in soft snow however, you can do whatever you want with them, and they shut down really, really fast.

I think the fact that folks ski them in all kinds of ways is why you'll see comments about them that are all over the map.

... Thom

[3PinGrin]

I haven't skied the Bibbys, but he Qs ski slightly longer than GPOs, in harder pack snow. In soft snow however, they initiate equally quickly but differently. The GPOs initiate with more of a pivot, and the Qs like a bit of an edge initiation - at least the way I ski them. Once you start a turn in soft snow however, you can do whatever you want with them, and they shut down really, really fast.

I think the fact that folks ski them in all kinds of ways is why you'll see comments about them that are all over the map.

... Thom

Thanks Thom,
I think my main concern would be if I was really limiting the ability to float in powder (understanding of course that they aren't a true powder ski). I certainly don't mind edged turns but don't want to be sinking a tip beyond reasonable (whatever that is, ha).

[pembyguy]

I’ve both. Skied Q today in whistler; 20cms of dry cold. Very similar skis for me. Standing on top of the Qs they pivot very quickly, like a full rocker, and large sweet spot; easy to ski. They can skid out of carving turns so def not locked in for me; maybe consequence of stance? Did get to carve on soft rough groomers and felt way more effective edge than the bibbys. Once I got used to them they carved well. Definitely two foot skiing in chop but I think I do that anyway, lots of fun. Mine heavy core with carbon mounted -1. Confidence inspiring.


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[3PinGrin]

I’ve both. Skied Q today in whistler; 20cms of dry cold. Very similar skis for me. Standing on top of the Qs they pivot like a full rocker, very quickly and large sweet spot; easy to ski. They like to gradually skid out of carving turns so def not locked in for me. Did get to carve on soft rough groomers and felt way more effective edge than the bibbys. Once I got used to them they carved well. Definitely two foot skiing. Mine heavy core with carbon mounted -1. Confidence inspiring.


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Size on both skis and your height/weight? Thanks.

[pembyguy]

Size on both skis and your height/weight? Thanks.

184 Bibby 182 Q I’m 5’10 in heels 175+/-


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[3PinGrin]

184 Bibby 182 Q I’m 5’10 in heels 175+/-


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Good info, thanks!

[mr_pretzel]

I’ve both. Skied Q today in whistler; 20cms of dry cold. Very similar skis for me. Standing on top of the Qs they pivot very quickly, like a full rocker, and large sweet spot; easy to ski. They can skid out of carving turns so def not locked in for me; maybe consequence of stance? Did get to carve on soft rough groomers and felt way more effective edge than the bibbys. Once I got used to them they carved well. Definitely two foot skiing in chop but I think I do that anyway, lots of fun. Mine heavy core with carbon mounted -1. Confidence inspiring.


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This is exactly how I feel about Q's.