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  1. #126
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Holy fuck did you set off the slide or something?

    If you are a moron and set off an avalanche that results in someone swimming for their life you are a criminal. It was posted all over the internet, don't fucking go there unless you want to die, then this me first jabroni ignores it. It's criminal, and after they put his ass in jail for a year, they can civil suit his estate for damages. Just deserves.

    My wife or myself could have been that Jeep driver. It's not just about you the skier. You have a bunch of folks just trying to get to work below you. You want that it's not a crime to ski bullshit, go somewhere where there is no consequence for innocent people.
    Wooly is an attorney, specializing in criminal defense, speaking about the law. Not the skier involved.

    Shouldn't you be tending to your fantasy real estate empire in Idaho, or counseling us all on how to
    be the best slum lords possible, or maybe thanking your stars your not a bean counter in the basement of
    the Four Seasons anymore?

    Though I agree that it was not cool to be on the North side of the pass- I don't care how safe your line is.
    They should just close the lot on top, let people get there exercise in starting from the bottom.
    The market is dominated by fat skis largely because young toughs want what they see in videos: organ donors hucking into heliski bowls. -Seth Masia

  2. #127
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    Nov 2008
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    Greater Drictor Wydaho
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolly the Mammoth View Post
    It is not by definition a criminal matter. No one has been charged with anything. Even if they were, its ultimately a jury question as to whether the conduct meets the definition of reckless endangerment.
    If it's within the discretion of the DA to apply criminal law to a situation, it is by definition a potential criminal matter (by "criminal matter", I meant it can get to an arrest and trial). It's just that the past situations haven't warranted it. No drivers have gotten seriously hurt yet, that's all. You state that its not a crime to ski federal lands. That rather misses my point. It's not a crime for me to cut down a tree in my front yard. But if I ignore high winds and drop that tree into the road and flatten a passing car, I've got civil and possibly criminal liability for that. Right? I don't understand why you insist that skiers be subject only to civil liability. Are skiers a special class free from the consequences of criminal level recklessness? What recourse is civil liability against a ski bum? Are Pass skiers going to be required to purchase liability insurance so they'll have the means to make the plaintiff whole in a civil case?

    I don't mean to piss in your ear, Woolly. I have respect for you. This is just hypotheticals.

    Ok, here's a Socratic method exercise. Distinguish these fact patterns. Defendant 1 rolls a basketball sized rock off the summit of Glory, thinking there's no way it will make it more than a hundred feet down. Through a series of unfortunate bounces, the rock makes it down to the highway where it strikes a car and kills the driver. Defendant 2 skis Glory on a considerable rating day, thinking there's no way an avalanche will start where he is and run all the way to the road. Unfortunately, his ski cut releases a modest sized slide that hits the road and causes two passing cars to crash headfirst, killing someone. In both situations, there is no intent to harm anyone yet the defendant is the proximate cause of the death. Should criminal charges be brought in either of these cases?

    Here's another. It's a high avy rating day. Defendants A and B have read the avy report and know it is a high rating day and that slide activity is occurring. They go to the Pass. Someone in the Pass parking lot tells them he witnessed a slide and had turned back. Despite that they ascend the North side of the road. On their ascent, they witness shooting cracks and whomping but continue, thinking they know a safe tree route and, at worst, they have proper gear, including airbags. On descending their "safe" line, they remotely trigger a massive slide that runs to the road striking a vehicle and killing all four occupants. Is this a "depraved indifference" homicide? Why not? How indifferent do skiers have to be before it becomes that "extreme indifference to the value of human life" that supports a 2nd degree homicide charge? Do we need video of the guy saying "I don't give a fuck" or can that ever be inferred from the facts?
    Last edited by neckdeep; 12-17-2016 at 11:01 AM.

  3. #128
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    Sep 2007
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    tetons
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    I remember going up there on full moon nights and having our party of 3 or 4 being the only people there skiing fresh lines all the way down Glory.
    me too
    except the one time I forgot my boots and then I got to be the shuttle driver
    skid luxury

  4. #129
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    Aug 2006
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    5,275
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperGaper View Post
    Wooly is an attorney, specializing in criminal defense, speaking about the law. Not the skier involved.

    Shouldn't you be tending to your fantasy real estate empire in Idaho, or counseling us all on how to
    be the best slum lords possible, or maybe thanking your stars your not a bean counter in the basement of
    the Four Seasons anymore?

    Though I agree that it was not cool to be on the North side of the pass- I don't care how safe your line is.
    They should just close the lot on top, let people get there exercise in starting from the bottom.
    Not sure what I did to piss you off back in the day, but it appears we agree on this issue. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

  5. #130
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    Apr 2007
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    Tahoe
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    12,250
    Quote Originally Posted by neckdeep View Post
    What recourse is civil liability against a ski bum?
    Are you suggesting there should be two sets of laws? If you're rich it's a civil matter but if you're poor you get locked up?


    Quote Originally Posted by neckdeep View Post
    Ok, here's a Socratic method exercise. Distinguish these fact patterns. Defendant 1 rolls a basketball sized rock off the summit of Glory, thinking there's no way it will make it more than a hundred feet down. Through a series of unfortunate bounces, the rock makes it down to the highway where it strikes a car and kills the driver. Defendant 2 skis Glory on a considerable rating day, thinking there's no way an avalanche will start where he is and run all the way to the road. Unfortunately, his ski cut releases a modest sized slide that hits the road and causes two passing cars to crash headfirst, killing someone. In both situations, there is no intent to harm anyone yet the defendant is the proximate cause of the death. Should criminal liability attach in either of these cases?
    http://www.trailspace.com/forums/bac...ics/39482.html
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  6. #131
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    Dec 2009
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    Paradise
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-bear View Post
    me too
    except the one time I forgot my boots and then I got to be the shuttle driver
    I did that once too. Except we had driven from Steamboat to Winter Park to go ski up on Rollins Pass. Luckily there was a ski rental place opened where I could grab some boots.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  7. #132
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    Dec 2006
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    crown of the continent
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    I did that once too. Except we had driven from Steamboat to Winter Park to go ski up on Rollins Pass. Luckily there was a ski rental place opened where I could grab some boots.
    I did that once too. Mine was lacing up snowboard boots at Snowbird and noticing one boot was ripped in half. Rented some super soft boots and followed my bud down some steep ass line off the tram for a warm up lap.
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

    Patterson Hood of the DBT's

  8. #133
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    Jan 2006
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    958
    Fantastic skiing on Taylor today. Got full propagation from an ECT at the last storm layer and full collapse at the base on facets, South facing at 9000'. Saw some guys ski the gut of the South Face, so we must be good to go. Teton Considerable!

  9. #134
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    Mar 2011
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    Montucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    Fantastic skiing on Taylor today. Got full propagation from an ECT at the last storm layer and full collapse at the base on facets, South facing at 9000'. Saw some guys ski the gut of the South Face, so we must be good to go. Teton Considerable!
    Yikes!

    Avalanche safety is ultimately a numbers game, and I'm not ready to bet on anything yet this winter.

    Just because one or two riders have safely crossed a suspect slope, that doesn't mean the area is safe.

    Translation: I'm keeping my ass off any consequential lines until the snowpack has somewhat healed.

    Everyone who is skiing this snowpack needs to pay attention to the avvy report, and dig some pits on representative slopes.

  10. #135
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    May 2006
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    west tetons
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERIOR View Post
    Yikes!

    Avalanche safety is ultimately a numbers game, and I'm not ready to bet on anything yet this winter.

    Just because one or two riders have safely crossed a suspect slope, that doesn't mean the area is safe.

    Translation: I'm keeping my ass off any consequential lines until the snowpack has somewhat healed.

    Everyone who is skiing this snowpack needs to pay attention to the avvy report, and dig some pits on representative slopes.
    Panchosdad is most certainly tongue-in-cheek on that one. Hard to tell over the interwebs, but he laughs long and hard about "Teton considerable" and the competitive risk tolerance that it engenders.

    Your assessment will keep you happily on top for a long time, Superior.

    In other non-news, my feet got really cold teaching a level 1 at 3•F. But it's my dream job, right?

  11. #136
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    Jan 2006
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    958
    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERIOR View Post
    Yikes!

    Avalanche safety is ultimately a numbers game, and I'm not ready to bet on anything yet this winter.

    Just because one or two riders have safely crossed a suspect slope, that doesn't mean the area is safe.

    Translation: I'm keeping my ass off any consequential lines until the snowpack has somewhat healed.

    Everyone who is skiing this snowpack needs to pay attention to the avvy report, and dig some pits on representative slopes.
    Sarcasm, facetiousness and satire dude. It's one of those, I'm not smart enough to know the difference.

  12. #137
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    Nov 2006
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    Bozeman
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    1,190
    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    I remember when no one skied Glory Bowl in the winter because it was deemed too dangerous. Life was still pretty good.

    No idea what your point is RA.
    I lived in Jackson for most of the 80's and mostly skied the pass. We never skied Glory because it was way too dangerous and there was so much else to ski that was incredible, especially on leather tele boots and long skinny skis. It is shocking to me to hear what risks people take there nowadays.

  13. #138
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    Oct 2005
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    Sandy
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    I lived in Jackson for most of the 80's and mostly skied the pass. We never skied Glory because it was way too dangerous and there was so much else to ski that was incredible, especially on leather tele boots and long skinny skis. It is shocking to me to hear what risks people take there nowadays.
    Geezus dude, that was like the pre-social media days when people did the stuff they wanted to do. What would be the point of skiing Glory if you couldn't twattergram about it?
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  14. #139
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    Mar 2008
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    the hole
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    545
    Click image for larger version. 

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    cold and smokey out there, can't feel my toes but worth it

  15. #140
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    Mar 2008
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    on the rivah, VT
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    2,021
    ^^ That looks purely delightful!
    go Go GO!

    18-19: 86! 17-18: 80. 16-17: 56. 15-16: 40. 14-15: 33. 13-14: 56ish. 12-13: 51. 11-12: 65. 10-11: 69. 09-10: 65.

  16. #141
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    Nov 2006
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    Bozeman
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfotex View Post
    Geezus dude, that was like the pre-social media days when people did the stuff they wanted to do. What would be the point of skiing Glory if you couldn't twattergram about it?
    So true. Although before the twatterverse we did have Kodak Courage (look up Kodak, kids) leading to bad outcomes. One friend busted his jaw hucking something a bit bigger than he expected because a magazine (google magazine too) photographer was shooting him. But otherwise we just went skiing for fun and lied about (I mean shared) our adventures at the bar.

  17. #142
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    Dec 2009
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    Paradise
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    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    I remember when no one skied Glory Bowl in the winter because it was deemed too dangerous. Life was still pretty good.

    No idea what your point is RA.
    Teh point was that there wasn't this sort of pressure on the pass back then (and every where else for that matter) and it's a shame how growth has had an impact on places and experiences to the point that a part of the discussion is closures and such.

    Poorly articulated point for sure but it seemed real clear in a IPA buzzed and foggy state.
    Last edited by raisingarizona13; 12-18-2016 at 11:38 PM.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  18. #143
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    Jan 2009
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    25
    you guys are getting hammered by snow and all you do is bitch. thanks for that awesome single lonely beautiful photo passholer

  19. #144
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    Sep 2007
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    tetons
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    Quote Originally Posted by corien View Post
    you guys are getting hammered by snow and all you do is go out skiing all day.
    FIFY
    skiing was excellent this w/e and it was relatively empty bc it was really cold so it kept a lot of people at bay.
    esp sunday afternoon- there was nobody skiing but it was beautiful out

    the snow is so so good and things are filling in well
    skid luxury

  20. #145
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    The Wilds of Maine
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    2,681
    Just wanted to drop in and say I miss you guys and wish I still had the Glory bootpack 10 mins. from the office. Although Snowbird is nice. Shred First Turn for me!
    "We're in the eye of a shiticane here Julian, and Ricky's a low shit system!" - Jim Lahey, RIP

    Former Managing Editor @ TGR, forever mag.

  21. #146
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Jackson Hole
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    2,594
    ↑ Skiing was great at the resort. Cold weather kept everybody away. -12⁰F at my house now and it's going to be 28⁰F tomorrow- with snow.
    Ski Shop



    Do not tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish.

    Mark Twain

  22. #147
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    May 2006
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    west tetons
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    Agreed. I couldn't even count how many layers I had on for skiing up Mail Cabin in the shade. But then we broke out into the sun and it was lovely. Tried to take a photo but it was too cold and the camera died. Use your imagination.

  23. #148
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    Aug 2006
    Location
    the big dirty
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    682
    people commute over a mountain pass to serve rich people starbucks on the other side?

  24. #149
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    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    4,420
    Hey JH people, hoping for some trip beta. Wife and I are considering doing 3 days in your general zone over New Year's again, we did this last year and had a blast. We'd probably only be doing 1 day at JHMR because we no longer get a deal on lift tickets, and we're touring more together this season anyway... so had a couple Qs:

    1) What's that definitive teton pass guidebook?
    (edit: no interest in peak bagging if the snowpack is sketchy)

    and I guess 3, is it worth trying to ski at Snow King for a cheaper day? I'd prefer having a < 30 degree accessible backcountry thing in my back pocket (whether or not it gets tracked out quick) but idk maybe Snow King is cool? I can't even find ticket prices on their website though lol

    Edit: we'll be at the quality inn or w/e 330 W Pearl st (right in town near where they make the melvins I believe), in case any of you hooligans wants to hang out. 29th/30th/31st
    Last edited by mbillie1; 12-19-2016 at 01:31 PM.

  25. #150
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Fresh Lake City
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    3,280
    Quote Originally Posted by mbillie1 View Post
    1) What's that definitive teton pass guidebook?
    Turiano's Teton Skiing: A History and Guide to the Teton Range is pretty rad. Its not specific to the pass but does have a section on that area. Its definitely one of my favorite guidebooks of all time. Rich in history, lots of the route descriptions read like trip reports of the first descent. Really good stuff.

    you can burrow my copy if you want

    p.s. I think the Melvin Brewery is in Alpine

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