"race" tech heels for everyday touring?

[Climber Joe]

So I want to build an ultralight objective oriented touring ski setup that will be doing 90% spring/summer steep descent missions. I have settled on either the Voile Objective BC or the Blizzard Zero G for the planks.

Most of my spring/summer tours are in/out in a day fast attempt things, so weight and functionality are my only real concerns. As long as the release values are at an 8 or so, I don't really even need adjustable release.

So looking to push my weight down further, I was looking at the: dynafit superlite 2.0, the Plum Race 145, the Kreuzspitze GT, and a few others.

Is the speed radical worth the weight penalty? I am #170 and graceful (not hard on gear).

[rob stokes]

I'm sure the speed rad is worth the weight of you need a higher RV, but if 8 is good go light!

[Climber Joe]

I'm sure the speed rad is worth the weight of you need a higher RV, but if 8 is good go light!

Well as long as I am not getting pre-release with a race binding I am not too worried about release values. I feel like the simple post/pin design should be pretty bomber shouldn't it?

[bean]

I prefer how the Speed Superlight skis over the Speed Radical, the only drawback is lack of BSL adjustment.

[Cosmic Suncloud]

i've used radical toes with SSL 1.0 heels for the past few years on skis 115 and 108. works well. right now they are on 108 ZGs.

have friends using the ssl 2.0 and RT's but on smaller skis with minimal issues. i had a pin on one of the ssl 1.0 heels bust out the side; could have been due to impact or just wear and tear. and i've seen SLL toes and RT heels break as well. my take away is the race bindings will functionally work for what you want to use them for, but they are much more susceptible to weakening through use, impacts from throwing them in the back of a truck, and are not really designed for bigger skis.

another thing to consider is the stiffness of the ski, and how much you flex the ski when using. i think the racing bindings and next level up (SSL, RT, wepa, backlands) work better on stiffer skis where you're not jamming up the binding flexing the ski.

[Lindahl]

I prefer how the Speed Superlight skis over the Speed Radical, the only drawback is lack of BSL adjustment.

The 1.0s had adjustment plates. So do the RTs. Its a shame they didn't widen the 2.0 mount patternjust enough so that both the rear and front holes are the same distance like the RT. Makes it impossible to create large adjustment plates for them.

[land]

I prefer how the Speed Superlight skis over the Speed Radical

How so? Is it the ramp angle (technically, ramp delta)?

To mitigate this hijacking, Dynafit sells an "expedition" set of bindings with radical toes and race style heels, seems like exactly what you're talking about. SkimoCo sells individual toes and heels.

[rob stokes]

How so? Is it the ramp angle (technically, ramp delta)?

To mitigate this hijacking, Dynafit sells an "expedition" set of bindings with radical toes and race style heels, seems like exactly what you're talking about. SkimoCo sells individual toes and heels.

Expedition has no lateral release capabilities at the heel.

[Climber Joe]

Expedition has no lateral release capabilities at the heel.

This, and no flat on ski tour mode, which I see as a huge drawback.

Is there a noticeable retention difference between the radical toes and a race toe?

[bean]

The 1.0s had adjustment plates. So do the RTs. Its a shame they didn't widen the 2.0 mount patternjust enough so that both the rear and front holes are the same distance like the RT. Makes it impossible to create large adjustment plates for them.

The plates are absurdly expensive and increase the ramp, unless you do toe risers too. And I've got the 1.0 and all the adjustment plates seem to be long gone at this point.

[bean]

How so? Is it the ramp angle (technically, ramp delta)?

The ramp is pretty flat, but moreover it's just a more solid-feeling connection in the heel than the speedrads. The radical is loose and has lots of play, which is normal according to Dynafit. The speed SL is rock solid.

After blowing up multiple speed radical heels and having replacements feel sloppy I'm looking to sell them and replace with vipecs.

[Lindahl]

The plates are absurdly expensive and increase the ramp, unless you do toe risers too. And I've got the 1.0 and all the adjustment plates seem to be long gone at this point.

Doesn't mean they don't exist. I bought a pair over the summer from Cripple Creek. They still come in at under 10mm ramp by the way. Totally worth having the adjustability.

[Cosmic Suncloud]

The plates are absurdly expensive and increase the ramp, unless you do toe risers too. And I've got the 1.0 and all the adjustment plates seem to be long gone at this point.

Using the SSL 1.0 heel with a plate and paired with a radical toe with no plate results in about 6.8 mm ramp, which for me works well. Also I think the plates add some stability to the heel as the mounting pattern is not so tight.

couple years ago? dynafit came out with an adjustable SSL 1.0 heel. called the C-One. i think it was heavier than the plate/binding combo.

[bean]

Doesn't mean they don't exist. I bought a pair over the summer from Cripple Creek. They still come in at under 10mm ramp by the way. Totally worth having the adjustability.

I have no need for BSL adjustment on my skis with speed SLs, if I have skis that need adjustment vipecs are significantly cheaper than speedSL+plate. Maybe cost doesn't matter to you, to me the addition of an $80+ adapter plate that increases ramp makes it less likely I'll go with a particular binding.

[m-ruta]

The salomon/atomic MTNpin is another option in this category. Basically the speed super light with bsl adjustment and fixed rv via swappable heel pins.

Would definitely recommend speed turns over speed rads. The radical heel risers put a ton of leverage on the top plate, leading to the aforementioned explosions.

[Ocean]

I just swapped my Speed Turn heels for Kreuzspite GT heels. The things that attracted me to the GT heels were...

- Low pin height = Neutrel ramp angle when used with most lightweight toes.
- Adjustable RV
- No heel lifters to break or fail.

I didn't want the increased ramp angle and fiddle factor of the adjustment plates, so downside is no BSL adjustment, but hey, if I need to change my boots I'll just have to buy new skis.

All skiing so far this season has been on alpine bindings, so I can't comment on how well they work in practice.

[Mantana1]

Is the speed radical worth the weight penalty?

No. I have SSL 1.0 heels on multiple pairs of skis, multiple seasons of use with no issues. Go with the SSL

[sfotex]

I've been using radical or plum guide toes with plum race heels for a few seasons now with good results.
I've had some releases from the heel skiing inbounds in firm 3-d snow (moguls/ruts) etc. , but haven't had any problems in the back country.

[Lindahl]

I have no need for BSL adjustment on my skis with speed SLs, if I have skis that need adjustment vipecs are significantly cheaper than speedSL+plate. Maybe cost doesn't matter to you, to me the addition of an $80+ adapter plate that increases ramp makes it less likely I'll go with a particular binding.

Huh? You just said that was a drawback...? I ski my SSLs with multiple boots FWIW. My Cochises for short laps (<5-6 hrs) and Backlands for longer tours.

You know the Vipec has about the same ramp angle as SSLs with plates, right? I'm not aware of any race style bindings that have adjustment and lower ramp angle. Thats the nature of having a plate and keeping weight down.

[mall walker]

Just put Ski Trab Gara Titans on my new touring sticks. According to the guys at skimo.co while there isn't an adjustable release, the effective RV is something like 10. Bindings are ~115g. We'll see how it works out this season, should it ever snow in the US again, but they feel bomber.

[bean]

Huh? You just said that was a drawback...? I ski my SSLs with multiple boots FWIW. My Cochises for short laps (<5-6 hrs) and Backlands for longer tours.

It's a drawback but not something that's going to make me spend more and increase fiddle factor. I'm not too worried about resale on my mountaineering skis so I'll just go with new holes and maybe inserts.

Different needs and preferences and all that. It's nice to have options.

[ccl]

I skied all last season with a radical toe and plum race 145 heel. I added the plum adjustment heel plate to 1) give some additional length adjustment and 2) bring the ramp angle up to about 6mm from a round totally flat with out it. I have these mounted on a BD Helio 105 which makes for a very light high performance set up. I weigh around 200 pounds and skied about 75 days last season with this set up and had no release issues. Overall I was quite surprised by how confidence inspiring the bindings were. I expected to have to use a little extra finesse but in the end trusted them as much as any other tech binding I've used.

[Jonathan S.]

[...]Is there a noticeable retention difference between the radical toes and a race toe?

Depends on the race toe: some models have a spring-loaded toe lever, which definitely increases the retention.

[...]And I've got the 1.0 and all the adjustment plates seem to be long gone at this point.

I have an extra used heel plate I can sell in case anyone is interested.
Otherwise, the new plates for the 2.0 have the same toe pattern, so if you want to minimize the heel>toe delta, then you can mount just the toe plate for the SSL 1.0 model.

Also, here are the links for creating a very lightweight setup for only $320 comprising the Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0 toes with the Plum Race 150 heels:
http://skimo.co/dynafit-binding-toes
http://skimo.co/plum-binding-heels
Add another $40 (per pair) if you want the integrated 20mm adjustment track of the Plum Race 170 heel.
The Speed Radical toe (with the side towers) will also cost more for both the purchase price and separately buying the mounting screws and crampon clips (which are included with the Speed Turn 2.0 toes).

[Climber Joe]

Does anybody have a skimo coupon code? Do they even happen? If you get me one I'll send you pictures of my ski rack.

[truax]

No codes, as far as I've seen. Maybe something will pop up for black friday...doubt it though.

Regardless, Jason deserves your hard earned skrill cause he created a (viable!) shop that is unparallelled in NA. Where else can you pair such oddball parts, along with all sorts of other random, geeky, and rad gear? For less than speed rads at retail, what Jonathon mentioned is a great pairing IMO. Nothing but love for skimo.co.