Zwift, TR, Sufferfest etc

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-09-2021, 08:03 AM

Earn your FULL PRL Badge. Zwift Insider Badge Hunters Event March 13th.
https://zwiftinsider.com/badge-hunters-prl-full/
They are doing a group ride again this Saturday, double draft and powers ups. The estimated finish time should be the same as The Uber Pretzel ride a few weeks ago.

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**huckbucket** · 03-09-2021, 08:44 AM

Hard no. Thank the Gods that the weather is breaking and I have the option of going outside over this.

**Full Trucker** · 03-09-2021, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by huckbucket

Hard no. Thank the Gods that the weather is breaking and I have the option of going outside over this.

Agreed on the hard pass. But with a possible 60" storm on deck for the Denver metro, I might be riding inside this weekend. Or skiing Red Rocks, who even knows.

**justcuz** · 03-09-2021, 09:18 AM

Newb question: I don't understand how racing in Zwift works. So I'm a "high c" according to my FTP. I entered the C class on a race last week. I raced pretty hard and ended up averages 3.4 watts/kg, which put me out of the C category, therefore disqualified. The guy that won rode exactly 3.0watts/kg average and beat me by over two minutes.

How does one do better without "classing out"?

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-09-2021, 09:35 AM

Did you actually get a “WKG” result in ZwiftPower, which means “Exceeded Category Power Limits”, or are you just saying that 3.4 is higher that you think Cat C is?
You can actually produce higher numbers than the category limits and not be disqualified. It’s a complicated calculation of your 20min best, FTP and best 3 race results in the last 90 days.

**huckbucket** · 03-09-2021, 09:43 AM

Tough to answer in just one post.

W/Kg are obviously dependent on kg. So your 3.4 and the winner's 3.0 cannot be compared strictly as it relates to winning and losing a race. Dude is probably lighter than you.
You can only really stay a "C" on ZP by backing off your performance which would be silly and you probably won't win. ZP calculates your FTP based on prior races and rides. As soon as you put in a performance that is more than your FTP then you could get disqualified using their complex methodology. See this link for a whole bunch of disqualification codes (https://www.zwiftpower.com/viewtopic.php?t=5337). Enough of those result in an adjustment to your FTP upward and a kick up to a higher race category. So you can't "do better without classing out." Just go race the B's and get your ass handed to you like the rest of us.

**justcuz** · 03-09-2021, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

Did you actually get a “WKG” result in ZwiftPower, which means “Exceeded Category Power Limits”, or are you just saying that 3.4 is higher that you think Cat C is?
You can actually produce higher numbers than the category limits and not be disqualified. It’s a complicated calculation of your 20min best, FTP and best 3 race results in the last 90 days.

Actually got a "WKG" on zwift power....

**justcuz** · 03-09-2021, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by huckbucket

Tough to answer in just one post.

W/Kg are obviously dependent on kg. So your 3.4 and the winner's 3.0 cannot be compared strictly as it relates to winning and losing a race. Dude is probably lighter than you.
You can only really stay a "C" on ZP by backing off your performance which would be silly and you probably won't win. ZP calculates your FTP based on prior races and rides. As soon as you put in a performance that is more than your FTP then you could get disqualified using their complex methodology. See this link for a whole bunch of disqualification codes (https://www.zwiftpower.com/viewtopic.php?t=5337). Enough of those result in an adjustment to your FTP upward and a kick up to a higher race category. So you can't "do better without classing out." Just go race the B's and get your ass handed to you like the rest of us.

Don't know why this doesn't sound fun.

. But FINE. I'll do it. Next race is a b I guess.

**Full Trucker** · 03-09-2021, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by huckbucket

W/Kg are obviously dependent on kg. So your 3.4 and the winner's 3.0 cannot be compared strictly as it relates to winning and losing a race. Dude is probably lighter than you.

Okay, this just seems... not right. Considering that the 3.4 and 3.0 number are W/kg... yes one rider is lighter or heavier than the other, but pushing the same W/kg should equate to going the same speed as the weight differential is already accounted for, no? The total watts being pushed will be different, with the heavier rider needing to push more wattage to get the same W/kg... but once they have the same W/kg wouldn't the speed be the same? Or does Zwift also factor in some "wind" resistance for the heavier (i.e. larger) rider as well, and the heavier/larger rider has to overcome that in addition to just pushing more raw watts?

For instance, I'm 90kg... so my (simplified) understanding is that if I make 180 total watts while riding alongside someone who is 75kg and making 150 total watts, that we'll go the same speed as we're both making 2W/kg.

Though as for winning a race with lower average W/kg (averaged out over the entire race) than someone else, I can see that happening through the magic of the draft and rider strategy... winning rider gets in the lead group and they draft/work together, and then winner attacks at the end. No?

**jamal** · 03-09-2021, 10:55 AM

At the same w/kg the person doing more actual watts will go slightly faster. Especially on flat ground, and especially with bigger differences in weight. Like a 50kg person doing 100w and a 100kg person doing 200w. You notice it in event results where the smaller people tend to have a higher w/kg average. Or how the world TT champ is 180lbs, which is huge for a pro roadie.

e- and zwiftinsider has tested this

https://zwiftinsider.com/wkg-tests/

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-09-2021, 11:03 AM

^^Yes, kinda, and maybe.
Zwift has a calculation for your CdA (Cd= drag coefficient, A= frontal area) based on your height and weight. In Pro Zwift races (like the World Championships) riders need to weight in and measure height live on a zoom call with an official, to ensure accuracy.
Different bikes and different wheels in Zwift have varying levels of coefficient of rolling resistance, drag coefficient of frontal area, and acceleration due to gravity, but these are minor, like the best to 10th best is a difference of 10-15 seconds over the course of 60 minutes.

But like you said the group dynamics of drafting and averaging numbers don't really tell the whole picture. I dont watch much Zwift racing, but I had a friend in the E-World Champs, so I watched that one. In the last 10 minutes they were showing the lead group of 25 and had data showing the riders in the group and listed who was the most efficient (who had expend the least average watts) and I was blown away by the gap between the most efficient and 15th most efficient (still all in the lead group) and that number was over 30 watts, or 0.5w/kg considering most of these girls are about 60kg.

**bennymac** · 03-09-2021, 01:28 PM

I’m signed up for the PRL. Should be monotonous.

**huckbucket** · 03-09-2021, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by bennymac

I’m signed up for the PRL. Should be monotonous.

dude
GL

**bennymac** · 03-09-2021, 04:10 PM

I wish we got to choose what activities we are naturally gifted in - because I would not choose mine: sleeping and being able to do long monotonous exercise. I once hiked for 4 days with 3 hours sleep with no training because I was bored with a research project I had to do. I’m not fast though. I just have good inertia. When in motion I tend to stay in motion. And when at rest I tend to sleep for 12 hours.

I’d rather be able to sprint putting out huge watts or climb with speed - instead I get to be good at doing the PRL slowly and without suffering...

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-09-2021, 08:23 PM

Good solid group tonight.
8 riders! A few new guys (sorry if I assumed your gender)

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Everyone in the start pen talked about tired legs, sore legs, taking it easy, but the 3rd lap got spicy, and a big group came together again at the finish line.
Tonight’s riders were:
Dan_PDX (DPdx) (some tech issues on lap 3)
Suit (F.S.) NEW JOINER
Wendigo (Wendigo)
Dee Hubbs (D.H.)
Grmountainman (G.R.)
Merlyn (S.S.)
E.W.G. (F.Thur)
G. Gordon Liddy (M. Barely Ride) NEW JOINER

See ya Thurs 6:00 EST.

**huckbucket** · 03-09-2021, 08:45 PM

F.Thur has a vagina

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-09-2021, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by huckbucket

F.Thur has a vagina

FurThur has made it to 15 rides. (tied for second most TGR rides with Justcuz - K.R.)
Huckbucket has made it to 13 rides.
We'll let the peloton decide who has the Vagina.

Sorry I didnt ask FurThur for his (there, your...?) permission to post a photo of you on TGR.

**EWG** · 03-09-2021, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by huckbucket

F.Thur has a vagina

I mean, I don’t think you should say those things right after National Women’s Day...

I’d say that was a random attack except I think we all know huck is kinda a dick when he’s not on his meds. And by meds I mean Utica Club and turpentine fumes.

Missed ya tonight huck.

Dee bitched about the 637,000 vert he’s ridden in the last few days and still held me off at the line. It’s gotta be the shoes Mookie.

I know it wasn’t the socks.

**huckbucket** · 03-09-2021, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by EWG

I mean, I don’t think you should say those things right after National Women’s Day...

I’d say that was a random attack except I think we all know huck is kinda a dick when he’s not on his meds. And by meds I mean Utica Club and turpentine fumes.

Missed ya tonight huck.

Dee bitched about the 637,000 vert he’s ridden in the last few days and still held me off at the line. It’s gotta be the shoes Mookie.

I know it wasn’t the socks.

Wait, what? It was meant as a compliment.

Made it outside today. Sunny and 45 might as well be mid-summer in the upstate.

Good for you all getting after it tonight.

**The Suit** · 03-09-2021, 09:21 PM

I guess trying to stay away from the top of the hill wasn't a winning strategy ...

Is it possible to see the chat in retrospect? I think someone mocked my socks when I first joined.

**The Suit** · 03-09-2021, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

I just invited you.
Just be riding in any world at least 6 minutes before the scheduled meetup. 5 minutes before the event/meetup Zwift will put a prompt on the screen “Do you want to join your meetup” and even then if you do nothing it will auto select the meetup in 30 seconds if you don’t hit any buttons.

But don't choose a route? I waited patiently until 6:00 and didn't get added, so I quit and restarted and just clicked the ride button without selecting a route, and then I joined. My Zwift-fu is weak.

**jamal** · 03-09-2021, 09:25 PM

Oh, it can work.

I had a weird thing happen tonight. We're doing a local race series, which starts at 6:15. I hit "join meetup" at about 6:08 and it put me in innsbruck with you guys, but just stopped at the start. Except that I didn't rsvp that I was going, and did say I was going to our race, and zwift companion gave me a notification that my other meetup was starting in 15min. Thankfully the join thing for the event I wanted to do popped up right away at 6:10.

Also yes it is fine to pick a route. There's always one selected anyway when you hit ride. I like doing really short ones while i warm up for stuff to get those badges without having to quit zwift to keep riding.

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-09-2021, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by The Suit

I guess trying to stay away from the top of the hill wasn't a winning strategy ...
Is it possible to see the chat in retrospect? I think someone mocked my socks when I first joined.

Cant retrieve the chat, that I know of.
Your socks were perfectly fine, full length and all the way up, just like mine!
It's these guys that make sick to my stomach:

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**The Suit** · 03-09-2021, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

Cant retrieve the chat, that I know of.
Your socks were perfectly fine, full length and all the way up, just like mine!
It's these guys that make sick to my stomach:

Yeah - that's kinda gross.

**Dee Hubbs** · 03-09-2021, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by The Suit

But don't choose a route? I waited patiently until 6:00 and didn't get added, so I quit and restarted and just clicked the ride button without selecting a route, and then I joined. My Zwift-fu is weak.

Zwift did not auto join me tonight either, at 4 minutes to the hour I quit my warm up ride and rejoined a route and it asked me right away to "join meetup".
There have been some gremlins since the last update.

Originally Posted by jamal

I had a weird thing happen tonight. We're doing a local race series, which starts at 6:15. I hit "join meetup" at about 6:08 and it put me in innsbruck with you guys, but just stopped at the start. Except that I didn't rsvp that I was going, and did say I was going to our race, and zwift companion gave me a notification that my other meetup was starting in 15min. Thankfully the join thing for the event I wanted to do popped up right away at 6:10.

Ya I saw you show up for 10 seconds, and disappear.