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  1. #1
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    Zwift, TR, Sufferfest etc

    Got a smart trainer a few months ago and it has changed how I train not to mention my FTP going up 60 pts within 2 months. I love how a 1 hour ride is worth a 2 hour ride outdoors, and I can do it regardless of time or weather, all in the comfort of my own home. I know some people would rather ride outdoors, but I'm very time crunched and winter is about to hit us hard in Hokkaido, so this just suits me the best for where I am at with work/family/time.

    I've been on Zwift since mid-September and honestly love it. I've tried a little bit of everything on it, but I typically do 3 interval sessions a week with 1-2 chilled rides. Occasionally I'll swap out an interval session for a hard ride/race with others. I've not tried TR or Sufferfest and am wondering if others use/have used them. What did you like about them? What didn't you like? I think Sufferfest with the videos would be pretty fun. I think I'd dig that. It might be worth buying a video or two for the tablet and give them a go.

    Anybody else working out on trainers over winter?

    Cheers!
    パウダーバカ!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Providence RI
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    2,593
    Huge TR fan over here. Demoed sufferfest and it got real old real fast. I had both Zwift and TR for a while and while the whole Zwift competition aspect was fun, all the people "trainer doping" on dumb trainer and out sprinting Lance Armstrong when you know their FTP is probably 150 made me lose my competitive spirit. So I lost quite a bit of interest in Zwift and am going to switch to TR exclusively at this point. Way more structured workouts available, and I like the bar graph look of the individual workouts, being able to see it just in a tiny window at the bottom of your screen with a movie or something on above it. Highly recommend trainer road.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Calgary
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    Coulouirman, does TR offer specific programs as well in regards to periodization and progression?

    Thanks

  4. #4
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    Jun 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by couloirman View Post
    Huge TR fan over here. Demoed sufferfest and it got real old real fast. I had both Zwift and TR for a while and while the whole Zwift competition aspect was fun, all the people "trainer doping" on dumb trainer and out sprinting Lance Armstrong when you know their FTP is probably 150 made me lose my competitive spirit. So I lost quite a bit of interest in Zwift and am going to switch to TR exclusively at this point. Way more structured workouts available, and I like the bar graph look of the individual workouts, being able to see it just in a tiny window at the bottom of your screen with a movie or something on above it. Highly recommend trainer road.
    Cheers!

    I know what you mean. There are some obviously people cheating. But I just don't care. They're obviously utter wankers if they have to cheat on Zwift. Who cares about if you actually got a KOM one day or not right? I love seeing my PR's getting faster and faster, and I actually get more benefit from them cheating anyways as they are still pushing me to climb harder, sprint faster, etc..win win for me.

    TR sounds cool and since you can just throw a movie/ski porn etc on, the simplistic structure of it might not be as boring as I am thinking it might be. I know my serious tri/cycling mates only use TR so I am sure, as far as training and progression goes, it is far superior to Zwift.

    Robnow, yes. It creates your season from start to finish, and I have heard does an amazing job of it too, hence my inquiry here. I'm just not a competitive triathlete anymore so not sure if TR is where I wanna go.

    Anybody on here have trial code for TR they could share? I'd love to try it for a month.
    パウダーバカ!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    So I'm about to get the pain cave setup again this year. Just re-upped my TR subscription.

    Will be using TR with my road bike on a Kinetic trainer.

    I had a good outdoor riding season, but need to keep my momentum going and build to go into next season stronger than ever.

    Currently only riding like 40-50 miles a week. Road and MTB. I did 5 enduro races over the summer and that is where my focus is. Need to improve overall endurance and sprint power for the small flat/uphill sections of enduro races.

    Anyone recommend a specific program on TR for someone like me with a decent base who wants to build up for next summer's race season?

  6. #6
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    May 2008
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    Anyone using this thing or know of a cheaper alternative? Plans online so I can make one out of two-ba-firs and ply?

    https://www.amazon.com/Wahoo-Fitness...o+trainer+desk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
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    1,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    Anyone using this thing or know of a cheaper alternative? Plans online so I can make one out of two-ba-firs and ply?

    https://www.amazon.com/Wahoo-Fitness...o+trainer+desk
    I just take my bike repair stand and clamp a small piece of shelf board into the jaws and put my laptop/tablet on that. Works great.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northampton, MA
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    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    Anyone recommend a specific program on TR for someone like me with a decent base who wants to build up for next summer's race season?
    They have "Short Power" build blocks and then "Gravity" for the specific training at the end of the training cycle. Though from what I understand the best thing is to do an entire cycle of base, build, peak, (with the more enduro-specific blocks) since you have plenty of lead time.

    I just got a second hand fluid trainer on craigslist and started using TrainerRoad with virtual power myself. Finding it surprisingly fun to geek out about this, my first time doing structured training, it makes want to buy a power meter for my road bike :-o. Going into my second season of XC MTB racing. There is a lot of room for improvement and I think I can get some top ten results in cat 2 with some training.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Bottom feeding
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    Quote Originally Posted by radam View Post
    I just take my bike repair stand and clamp a small piece of shelf board into the jaws and put my laptop/tablet on that. Works great.
    Like.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    2,136
    Anybody using any of these online riding platforms with a "dumb" trainer?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by radam View Post
    I just take my bike repair stand and clamp a small piece of shelf board into the jaws and put my laptop/tablet on that. Works great.
    This makes so much sense. Really wish I thought of that. Ended up getting this off of amazon. Just arrived today. Seems like it will work pretty well.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


    Quote Originally Posted by akahn View Post
    They have "Short Power" build blocks and then "Gravity" for the specific training at the end of the training cycle. Though from what I understand the best thing is to do an entire cycle of base, build, peak, (with the more enduro-specific blocks) since you have plenty of lead time.

    I just got a second hand fluid trainer on craigslist and started using TrainerRoad with virtual power myself. Finding it surprisingly fun to geek out about this, my first time doing structured training, it makes want to buy a power meter for my road bike :-o. Going into my second season of XC MTB racing. There is a lot of room for improvement and I think I can get some top ten results in cat 2 with some training.
    Cool. I think short power > gravity sounds like a good game plan. I guess I do have a solid 12 weeks of winter before outdoor riding starts again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgnar View Post
    Anybody using any of these online riding platforms with a "dumb" trainer?

    I have a Kinetic Road Machine with the InRide do-dad. TrainerRoad didn't support it until recently. Gotta use the beta of the software. I have been using garmin cadence/speed/hrm and virtual power. Next ride I will try using the inride with TR. I guess it's not a true smart trainer though because cadence is estimated.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    2,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post

    I have a Kinetic Road Machine with the InRide do-dad. TrainerRoad didn't support it until recently. Gotta use the beta of the software. I have been using garmin cadence/speed/hrm and virtual power. Next ride I will try using the inride with TR. I guess it's not a true smart trainer though because cadence is estimated.
    Not gonna lie, I only understood half of that. I've got the HR and bike computer, understand the need for a speed sensor. But not sure about the rest.

    Seems like the main thing about the smart trainers is that they adjust resistance to simulate hills, right?

    Fortunately it hasn't gotten too cold down here yet, so I'm still getting outside miles.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    13
    I used beta of traineroad today with my kinetic in ride hooked up through Bluetooth, Garmin heart rate strap using ant+ and garmin cadence using ant+.

    I guess true smart trainers are the ones that automatically adjust tension etc. Mine is just resistance.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Phil View Post
    I used beta of traineroad today with my kinetic in ride hooked up through Bluetooth, Garmin heart rate strap using ant+ and garmin cadence using ant+.

    I guess true smart trainers are the ones that automatically adjust tension etc. Mine is just resistance.
    This was me lol. Tapatalk always randomly logs me into this old alias.

  15. #15
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    So, how do you guys cope with saddle pain during long indoor rides?

    I can ride outdoors all day with little pain because of occasionally getting out of the saddle etc, but a 90 minute trainer ride indoors KILLS my taint. Usually these 90 min indoor rides are low power high cadence so you can't pedal out of the saddle at all.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    1,105
    I end up doing some standing pedaling for a bit, but chamois keeps things pretty happy for the most part.

  17. #17
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    Dec 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    So, how do you guys cope with saddle pain during long indoor rides?

    I can ride outdoors all day with little pain because of occasionally getting out of the saddle etc, but a 90 minute trainer ride indoors KILLS my taint. Usually these 90 min indoor rides are low power high cadence so you can't pedal out of the saddle at all.
    Harden the fuck up.

    And wear the spandex with the chamois. It gets better with repetition, but 90 minutes is a long time.

  18. #18
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    Yeah I wear my diaper indoors, but I just get weird taint pain that I never get riding outdoors. I guess it's just from the static nature of a trainer ride vs. a real ride.

    About to enter the pain cave for a 90 minute go. Yay! Fun!

  19. #19
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Suit View Post
    Harden the fuck up.

    Thanks Jens,

  20. #20
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    Tilted my saddle forward like 3 degrees. Bingo.

    Walking Dead + TrainerRoad mini screen = tits.

  21. #21
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    Dec 2010
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    1,105
    I definitely shift around a bit too, noticed that I don't really sit on the saddle in the right spot if I am not paying attention. Scooting back a tiny bit puts my sit bones on the right spot and made a big difference.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    3
    Hello satori, I am also a huge fan of my bike trainer. With the help of bike trainer, I am able to do bicycle training indoor and no need to go outdoors for riding. Riding a bicycle outdoors was not feasible due to weather conditions, improper light and lack of time. But with the help of bike trainer it was possible to perform training indoors even in these conditions. I have never used Zwift but recently on my friend's recommendation brought an electronic trainer through which I am able to make my home trainer session fun with virtual rides.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    snow country, Japan
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    Bump.

    It's been close to a year now that I've had my smart trainer and Zwift and I thought I'd post an update. I must be in the rare group that honestly can't be assed to ride outdoors anymore. I only ride in my pain cave. I know, I know. You're probably thinking this guys mental, and I'll rightly admit it that I am; but I just get such a better workout from my indoor trainer than I ever could outdoors.

    So, I'm a slave in the Japanese work system and average 70-80/week, so time is extremely limited which is why the efficiency of the indoor trainer maximises interval sessions with limited time. So, over this year I've spun about 3-5 days a week on Zwift. I started out building up a base on it though I was riding outdoors a good bit because it's quite different. My 80K rides outside were about the equivalent as my 30-40K indoor interval sessions. So, the time I save by riding indoors is huge for me, especially because I can only work out before work and I hate getting up early. Even when I was racing in college my 5:30am workouts were the bane of my existence. I despised early morning runs. Now, I'm getting up before 5 to start riding by about 5:15ish and then ride for 60-75 mins. It's hard for me to ride any longer than that before work, but on Sunday I'll ride for 90mins plus.

    The last few months I've been enjoying Zwift more because all the Sufferfest workouts are now available on it. Some of the SF rides like Fight Club or 9 Hammers have left me on the verge of puking. Just bloody brutal. And those have enabled me to switch up a lot of the interval sessions I have been doing on Zwift. I've made lots of my own intervals as well as recovery rides too.

    But, the last couple of months I've been wanting more than just what Zwift offers. I've wanted structure in my riding. So, I was given a free month subscription to TrainerRoad by a former teammate of mine who is a sub-9 hour Ironman and 2:30 marathoner. Needless to say he's an incredible athlete. He was the one who recommend TR from the outset but at that point in time it wasn't what I was after. Now, the tides have changed and I've been on it for a few weeks now.

    I have to say I really like it and have almost decided that I'll pay for TR and run it through Zwift, or ride Zwift on my off rides or join races. I like how TR sets up an entire program for you and you just follow it, and it keeps reassessing your FTP throughout different builds. I am on the General Build (low volume which is 3 structured interval sessions a week) because of time restrictions, and I'll ride once or twice additionally along with one to two 10K trail run as well. The intervals are really well designed and there are something like 800 rides versus maybe a 100 or so on Zwift. Lots more to choose from and I also really like the instructions. The instructions made me think about breathing, posture, relaxing, legs, etc while in a complete world of hurt. I didn't know if I would find the workout instructions lame, but they're pretty solid overall. I'd say 3/4 are really useful, so I leave them on and will for the immediate future.

    Zwift, Sufferfest, and TrainerRoad are all quite different and they basically mention that on their webpages/information. I like all three for different reasons, but I wouldn't pay for SF. That's just not something I'm interested in paying for.. TR costs $99/year and $120/year for Zwift. I wouldn't say it's cheap to pay for both, but I used to pay the equivalent of $120/month for a shitty gym membership here so I'm quite happy paying this as I really see the value in both memberships. I'd say if you're looking for structure to your workouts and are sick of the guessing game, then TR is right for you. Probably more for serious cyclists/triathletes, or demented people who like their pain caves and just the numbers in front of them while riding. Of course, it enables you to watch your favorite ski porn, tv show, move etc. If you're into video games and like the interactive community and want to mix it up with free rides, intervals, races etc then Zwift might be a good choice. I'll continue with both over the winter and reevaluate again probably in Spring.

    Loving my pain cave and can't wait until I can set up an even better pain cave!!
    パウダーバカ!!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    4,476
    Quote Originally Posted by satori View Post
    Bump.

    It's been close to a year now that I've had my smart trainer and Zwift and I thought I'd post an update. I must be in the rare group that honestly can't be assed to ride outdoors anymore. I only ride in my pain cave. I know, I know. You're probably thinking this guys mental, and I'll rightly admit it that I am; but I just get such a better workout from my indoor trainer than I ever could outdoors.

    So, I'm a slave in the Japanese work system and average 70-80/week, so time is extremely limited which is why the efficiency of the indoor trainer maximises interval sessions with limited time. So, over this year I've spun about 3-5 days a week on Zwift. I started out building up a base on it though I was riding outdoors a good bit because it's quite different. My 80K rides outside were about the equivalent as my 30-40K indoor interval sessions. So, the time I save by riding indoors is huge for me, especially because I can only work out before work and I hate getting up early. Even when I was racing in college my 5:30am workouts were the bane of my existence. I despised early morning runs. Now, I'm getting up before 5 to start riding by about 5:15ish and then ride for 60-75 mins. It's hard for me to ride any longer than that before work, but on Sunday I'll ride for 90mins plus.

    The last few months I've been enjoying Zwift more because all the Sufferfest workouts are now available on it. Some of the SF rides like Fight Club or 9 Hammers have left me on the verge of puking. Just bloody brutal. And those have enabled me to switch up a lot of the interval sessions I have been doing on Zwift. I've made lots of my own intervals as well as recovery rides too.

    But, the last couple of months I've been wanting more than just what Zwift offers. I've wanted structure in my riding. So, I was given a free month subscription to TrainerRoad by a former teammate of mine who is a sub-9 hour Ironman and 2:30 marathoner. Needless to say he's an incredible athlete. He was the one who recommend TR from the outset but at that point in time it wasn't what I was after. Now, the tides have changed and I've been on it for a few weeks now.

    I have to say I really like it and have almost decided that I'll pay for TR and run it through Zwift, or ride Zwift on my off rides or join races. I like how TR sets up an entire program for you and you just follow it, and it keeps reassessing your FTP throughout different builds. I am on the General Build (low volume which is 3 structured interval sessions a week) because of time restrictions, and I'll ride once or twice additionally along with one to two 10K trail run as well. The intervals are really well designed and there are something like 800 rides versus maybe a 100 or so on Zwift. Lots more to choose from and I also really like the instructions. The instructions made me think about breathing, posture, relaxing, legs, etc while in a complete world of hurt. I didn't know if I would find the workout instructions lame, but they're pretty solid overall. I'd say 3/4 are really useful, so I leave them on and will for the immediate future.

    Zwift, Sufferfest, and TrainerRoad are all quite different and they basically mention that on their webpages/information. I like all three for different reasons, but I wouldn't pay for SF. That's just not something I'm interested in paying for.. TR costs $99/year and $120/year for Zwift. I wouldn't say it's cheap to pay for both, but I used to pay the equivalent of $120/month for a shitty gym membership here so I'm quite happy paying this as I really see the value in both memberships. I'd say if you're looking for structure to your workouts and are sick of the guessing game, then TR is right for you. Probably more for serious cyclists/triathletes, or demented people who like their pain caves and just the numbers in front of them while riding. Of course, it enables you to watch your favorite ski porn, tv show, move etc. If you're into video games and like the interactive community and want to mix it up with free rides, intervals, races etc then Zwift might be a good choice. I'll continue with both over the winter and reevaluate again probably in Spring.

    Loving my pain cave and can't wait until I can set up an even better pain cave!!
    Appreciate the overview. I spend all winter on the trainer out of convenience and looking for some way to improve it. I have some of the Sufferfest videos from before their new setup and they're great from a structure standpoint, it just gets a bit repetitive (though Revolver still makes me want to puke every damn time.)

    I'm generally looking for motivation as much as improvement. My problem with a trainer road/training peaks setup is I'm kinda screwed from a timing/consistency perspective due to work/travel/kids, so I cant rely too heavily on something geared towards a fixed ride/rest/recovery schedule. I can get 4 or 5 rides in a week, but not capable of something as mandated as the "intense ride Tuesday, recovery ride wednesday, intervals friday, long distance Saturday/Sunday" thing. I might be 4 on, 2 off or something like that, so not sure if TR is flexible enough (or worth it if i cant make that kind of commitment) vs just going with Zwift for motivational factor.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    snow country, Japan
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    Hey JC,

    I've done like 7-8 SF workouts per Zwift and enjoyed them, but Revolver didn't get me the same as say 9 Hammers or Fight Club did. I still haven't done 9 Hammers since that one time. Though I'd like to do it again as it's been about a month.

    As I mentioned, all SF videos are available for Zwift, so just in case you do get Zwift, here's the link for them in case you do go with Zwift:

    http://www.zwiftworkouts.com/

    Just scroll down to the SF workouts.

    From my limited interaction with TR, it seems like the weeks/days really don't matter. It's just set up there for you and you do it when you can. I actually skipped the initial FTP test on TR as I had just did it in Zwift not two weeks before, so that ride just appears blank on my training history. Additionally, you can add, delete, or skip rides within your prescribed week, so I don't think it's as rigid as you might be thinking. So, say you're away for a few days on a biz trip, and maybe you had to skip two interval sessions, just do them when you're back. I don't think it's going to be that big a deal. Maybe while you're away you can run a day or two and when you get back cycle? You're going to be in the same week until you either finish up all the rides, or skip them I believe. I'd say it's flexible and you can just do it when you can. FWIW I do my intervals on different days than what is prescribed on TR and have even had to do them a day or two later because of work schedule etc and it's not been an issue.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by satori; 08-10-2017 at 09:09 PM.
    パウダーバカ!!

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