Zwift, TR, Sufferfest etc

**Whiteroom_Guardian** · 12-02-2020, 10:27 PM

Now I am confused. This is the trainer I have been using for a couple years....they call it the "smart 2" but it's not actually a smart trainer? Because the resistance doesn't change based on the course? It's solid state fluid resistance. I just can't throw down for a new trainer right now but want to keep doing zwift races.

https://www.kurtkinetic.com/trainers...achine-smart-2

**EWG** · 12-02-2020, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

I am in for any times between 4pm to 6pm MST. I would love to ride both nights if we do a Tues and Thurs ride. Selfishly I would like the Tuesday ride to stay at it's current time of 6pm MST and the Thursday (east coast night) ride be at 4pm MST so I can hit both.

I’m the opposite timing. Standing 4pm MST Thursday meeting. Could make it at 5MST though.

**huckbucket** · 12-02-2020, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Now I am confused. This is the trainer I have been using for a couple years....they call it the "smart 2" but it's not actually a smart trainer? Because the resistance doesn't change based on the course? It's solid state fluid resistance. I just can't throw down for a new trainer right now but want to keep doing zwift races.

https://www.kurtkinetic.com/trainers...achine-smart-2

You got it. That's a dumb trainer. You know that little hill on the circuit we did? Feels a LOT harder when the smart trainer slams on the resistance. Not only do smart trainers change resistance to match the terrain (up, down, drafting), but they also display your wattage and cadence. Totally different experience. But don't stop just cause you're not able to swing it at this point. Riding anything is key.

**scharny** · 12-03-2020, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by EWG

I’m the opposite timing. Standing 4pm MST Thursday meeting. Could make it at 5MST though.

6pm East Coast time on Tuesdays works best for me - I have PT on Thursdays.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**ticketchecker** · 12-03-2020, 07:38 AM

I can do any of the proposed times from Maine, shit I got nothing else to do at night right now. I'm doing a Fondo workout program but can fit that in around whatever these end up being.

**jamal** · 12-03-2020, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Now I am confused. This is the trainer I have been using for a couple years....they call it the "smart 2" but it's not actually a smart trainer? Because the resistance doesn't change based on the course? It's solid state fluid resistance. I just can't throw down for a new trainer right now but want to keep doing zwift races.

https://www.kurtkinetic.com/trainers...achine-smart-2

Your trainer at least measures power, which is the main thing. Important to keep in mind that the wheel on ones are very dependent on tire pressure and tension so just make sure you keep those consistent and calibrate the trainer often.

What you're missing without the smart trainer is more the feel and feedback on hills. In zwift you can even adjust it from no change in resistance for hills to 100% I tried it at 100% for awhile but it actually seemed less realistic so I'm back closer to the default of 50%.

**Whiteroom_Guardian** · 12-03-2020, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by jamal

Your trainer at least measures power, which is the main thing. Important to keep in mind that the wheel on ones are very dependent on tire pressure and tension so just make sure you keep those consistent and calibrate the trainer often.

What you're missing without the smart trainer is more the feel and feedback on hills. In zwift you can even adjust it from no change in resistance for hills to 100% I tried it at 100% for awhile but it actually seemed less realistic so I'm back closer to the default of 50%.

Ok yeah. I have a cadence sensor on my crank arm too. Am I correct in my understanding that since it isn't a smart trainer Zwift knows to "fake" the resistance when I start to go up an incline in the game? Like I have to certainly shift, pedal harder, even get out of the saddle to maintain pace on a climb.

If I have the tire pressure under 120 it gets very difficult. At least I am using a real trainer tire.

**jamal** · 12-03-2020, 12:05 PM

It doesn't look like that one can change resistance? Regardless of whether you have zwift changing resistance, speed is still determined by power, weight, and grade (and then to a lesser extent your bike/wheels and height). You just have to increase wheel speed to add resistance and generate more power. With the smart trainer it's the other way around - go up a hill and the trainer makes it harder to pedal and you have to shift to an easier gear.

With "full realism" it was hard to compensate for slight grade changes. Kind of cool how hard it made the steepest parts of climbs though - like I'm in my lowest gear out of the saddle at 65rpm. Toning that down a bit is nice and lets you pedal at a little higher cadence on the steep climbs as well as generate more power on descents.

**Dee Hubbs** · 12-03-2020, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Ok yeah. I have a cadence sensor on my crank arm too. Am I correct in my understanding that since it isn't a smart trainer Zwift knows to "fake" the resistance when I start to go up an incline in the game? Like I have to certainly shift, pedal harder, even get out of the saddle to maintain pace on a climb.

If I have the tire pressure under 120 it gets very difficult. At least I am using a real trainer tire.

“Fake the resistance” is not an accurate description.
With my smart trainer, if I have my head down texting on my phone, or changing the TV channel and I’m not paying attention to the Zwift screen, I feel it in my pedals that I’ve hit a hill and I need to pedal harder to maintain my cadence and keep the power up.
Where as with your dumb trainer Zwift just calculates your height, weight, bike weight, aero setup, draft, and you just go slower (your speed drops) going up the hill. Thus you have to increase cadence and power to propel yourself faster up the hill. Your 200 watts on flat make you go 35 km/h, your 200 watts on a 8% slope make you go 6 km/h, so you shift and pedal harder to make your guy go 12 or 18 km/h. You don’t actually feel the hill, you just have to work harder on the hill.
Same thing with a downhill on a smart trainer, that climb on Innsbruckring, I can put my head down, even close my eyes and burry myself on the 4 minute climb, and even with my eyes closed I can feel my self (trainer) crest the climb and start the decent, I shift from 50-28 to 50-16 to 50-11 to maintain my watts and to keep up with the group on the downhill. I could do all this blind, just by the feedback from the trainer.
Hope that makes sense.

**Dee Hubbs** · 12-04-2020, 10:21 AM

It’s on! Meetup sent:
Tuesday 6pm MST
Thursday 6pm EST
Same course, same length, same invites.

**Whiteroom_Guardian** · 12-04-2020, 11:14 AM

Should trainers depreciate like most gear? I know most people on CL don't realize their stuff is overpriced. Scarcity due to covid has changed the market though.

https://bozeman.craigslist.org/spo/d...239871073.html

**huckbucket** · 12-04-2020, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Should trainers depreciate like most gear? I know most people on CL don't realize their stuff is overpriced. Scarcity due to covid has changed the market though.

https://bozeman.craigslist.org/spo/d...239871073.html

It's the covid effect as you suggest. Will be tough to find a good deal unfortunately.

**grrrmountainman** · 12-04-2020, 11:03 PM

How does one get an invite/find these meetups? I’m game for trying to hang onto the group..

**Dee Hubbs** · 12-04-2020, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by grrrmountainman

How does one get an invite/find these meetups? I’m game for trying to hang onto the group..

Follow me on Zwift and I can invite you, let me know your Zwift name (PM me if its your real name and don't want to post it here). I'll invite you to the TGR meet ups.

**grrrmountainman** · 12-04-2020, 11:57 PM

Great thanks just followed you - zwift handle is just G R

**Dee Hubbs** · 12-04-2020, 11:59 PM

We have 19 riders:
Dee Hubbs
lowagriz
Doughnuts01
Whiteroom_Guardian
buttahflake
jamal
ticketchecker
wendigo
joetron
kathleenturneroverdrive
justcuz
huckbucket
Merlyn
scharny
yanos
EWG
XtrPickles
VTskibum
grrrmountsinman

I’ll keep adding to this list once I see another follower.

**huckbucket** · 12-05-2020, 08:21 AM

Thanks again to DH for organizing this! Should be fun.

**Whiteroom_Guardian** · 12-05-2020, 08:42 AM

I will try to make the meetups again this week, but no race finish for me until I get a real trainer!

**buttahflake** · 12-05-2020, 09:00 AM

I’m in for Thursday, let’s party!

**EWG** · 12-08-2020, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

It’s on! Meetup sent:
Tuesday 6pm MST
Thursday 6pm EST
Same course, same length, same invites.

So tonight, right? Every week?

If tonight, I'll be there waiting for huckbucket to give me shit...

**huckbucket** · 12-08-2020, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by EWG

So tonight, right? Every week?

If tonight, I'll be there waiting for huckbucket to give me shit...

Will be there too. Mostly just to keep EWG honest about his weight.

Heads up that Companion cuts out for me sometimes which means I may not be able to chat. Rest assured I'm thinking bad thoughts about all of you.

**jamal** · 12-08-2020, 04:02 PM

I'll be there but leaving early again. Will be in thursday's ride too. For the whole thing!

**buttahflake** · 12-08-2020, 04:03 PM

See y’all on Thursday, ride on.
One from today in Innsbruck

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**Doughnuts01** · 12-08-2020, 04:31 PM

I should be able to join for tonights ride..

**EWG** · 12-08-2020, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by huckbucket

Will be there too. Mostly just to keep EWG honest about his weight.

Heads up that Companion cuts out for me sometimes which means I may not be able to chat. Rest assured I'm thinking bad thoughts about all of you.

I can't believe you don't think I'm actually 106 lbs. I'm very careful about my diet.