Truck Tire Time

[Bosco]

^ I bought the Falken Wildpeak A/T3W after driving 2 months on a new pair of BFG T/A KO2's (1st gen tundra). Much better tire for my purposes.

[Name Redacted]

BFG T/A KO2's have a softer compound for sticking to and getting grip on rocks and getting through muck. They aren't a winter compound, so they don't do well when it gets colder. If you are light on the right pedal and left pedal, they will get you through to 40k miles. That assumes you aren't going off road or hauling or pulling heavy loads.


Do they suck? Only if you're personal experiences say they suck. But there are much better tires out there than the BFG KO2's. It's a pretty looking tire on a truck but not much to write home about in terms of overall performance.

Maybe take a look at this tire as an option - https://www.offroadxtreme.com/engine...w-tire-review/

It's made by Sumitomo Rubber.

Yeah, as an off-road tire, that might be a good tire. But is it better in snow? Quieter on the road? Etc. Looks like a little more off-road oriented and I am just guessing that it isn't as good in snow than a BFG AT/TKO looking at the much less aggressive siping. A lot of tires are good at one thing or the other.

I've just always found the BFG good enough in the snow for me, while still driving well in the summer, and handling well off road where I go. I've seen BFG's do 40K+ a few times on my old Taco, probably more. I have them on a F150 now and seem fine so far but only 15K in. I was on a glazed ice road a few weeks ago and helped pull three rental cars out of the ditch with no issues. I should have some good karma coming for that one.

I'm not arguing that these are the best tires in the world, but for all around mountain driving on/off road performance on a truck, they are pretty darn good. To say they suck is just plain incorrect.

[Gunder]

I’m getting interested in Michelin’s Crossclimate SUV, and the class of tires called “all weather tires.” People will argue about it, but the claim is better snow traction than all seasons, but better tread wear and drivability than dedicated winter tires. They seem to be getting popular in Europe. Living in the southern Rockies, there’s a lot of winter driving on dry roads. I plan to try some out.

https://www.discounttire.com/learn/all-weather-tires
https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/...weather-tires#
https://www.consumerreports.org/tire...ll-year-round/

It’s just another way of rebranding shitty all seasons that do nothing well. Great for summer but not even close when it comes to snow. We put them on the wife’s car as they where cheap on sale, her car sees snow maybe once every two years and we plan to sell that car in a year.

[Meadow Skipper]

It’s just another way of rebranding shitty all seasons that do nothing well. Great for summer but not even close when it comes to snow. We put them on the wife’s car as they where cheap on sale, her car sees snow maybe once every two years and we plan to sell that car in a year.

You put Michelin Crossclimates on your wife’s car? And they were cheap and on sale? Where can I get those?

[XXX-er]

Buy good snow tires eh

cuz they are a life saving rubber product

so is the condom

would you skimp on condoms ?

[1000-oaks]

Got new Duratracs in July, one was bad from the get-go (unable to balance after four tries, bad vibration at 65-70 mph), got a new one and they're okay now. More noise and minor vibration compared to Michelin AT2, but Duratracs do look awesome, so there's that. Haven't had a chance to off-road them much yet, but expect good things given the tread pattern. Not sure I'd get them again after the balancing fiasco though.

[Norseman]

New wheels too?

Same truck, What offset you got? Just went with 18mm offset rims and KO2s

Yeah, new wheels.

These are the 701's from Method, with the fancy serrated bead seat and zero offset. First set to go on a Tundra, at least when I bought em weeks ago. They were one of the only models I could find that put the tread where I wanted and didn't have some stupid ass bling style.

The TRD forged rims coming off are probably a little better quality, but I needed to run wheel spacers with them (getting to about 18mm offset) with the rig's current suspension. I'd rather not run spacers.

Anyone want some RockWarrior rims for Tundra/Sequoia?

Yeah, as an off-road tire, that might be a good tire. But is it better in snow? Quieter on the road? Etc. Looks like a little more off-road oriented and I am just guessing that it isn't as good in snow than a BFG AT/TKO looking at the much less aggressive siping. A lot of tires are good at one thing or the other.

I've just always found the BFG good enough in the snow for me, while still driving well in the summer, and handling well off road where I go. I've seen BFG's do 40K+ a few times on my old Taco, probably more. I have them on a F150 now and seem fine so far but only 15K in. I was on a glazed ice road a few weeks ago and helped pull three rental cars out of the ditch with no issues. I should have some good karma coming for that one.

I'm not arguing that these are the best tires in the world, but for all around mountain driving on/off road performance on a truck, they are pretty darn good. To say they suck is just plain incorrect.

I like this post. The case for All-Terrains.

[Huskier]

I like this post. The case for All-Terrains.

Yeah, I ran KO2's on a Jeep for 5 seasons. Never changed them, no issues at all. Duratracs seem to be treating me about as well, but they're stopping ~1000lbs more vehicle (2016 Taco 2xcab, longbed), so it kinda makes sense.

[t-the-east]

New KO2s on right before thanksgiving. 18mm offset rims, and new bilstein struts leveled out the front end. Truck drives like a dream now. Cruised Up my hill with 6” of snow in 2wd.

[east or bust]

my original set of BFG A/Ts lasted around 50K miles on the blazer, put them on when I bought it at 108K and changed out to new KO2s a couple thousand miles before 160K. the new KO2s have of 30K miles currently, it appears they may be wearing slightly faster but that is to be expected with the new compound. the KO2s are a noticeable improvement over the original A/T in terms of off road crawling performance in wet conditions. I don't buy the principle that their performance is adversely affected by cold weather, I have many data points and none of them suggest that.

[2FUNKY]

^ They’re not. Tested them yet again yesterday in some nasty packed wet snow and icy roads and they performed flawlessly like the last 2 winters prior. Rallied up a two track in 12” of wet snow like it was nothing in 2 wheel drive. Dropped it into 4wheel just to pull off onto the side where it was muddy underneath to park to start my hunt. Didn’t have a single issue.
Same tire will go on next fall when these will be worn out.

[claymond]

Opinions on dedicated snow tires for a Tacoma that kickass in deep snow? Currently have duratracs on it, which I've found do excellent in deeper snow and snowy trails, and good but not great in packed but soft snow. The area they lack in, not surprisingly, is hard pack and ice. Think Montana freeways and highways. Last winter I worked for a company driving vans in LCC with Michelin LTX snow tires and my Tacoma with duratracs did better in deep snow by a good margin. Not a great comparison cuz two different vehicles but still. Dont think I want studded because the roads in Utah are usually dry and freeway speeds are high. Anyway, any recommendations? Leaning towards Blizzak W965.

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[Rideski]

There's 19 pages of recommendations.

[claymond]

^^ Meh not really that I could find. Lots of comparisons of Dtracs to other AT tires, a few "my all terrains won't break loose in snow no matter what" comments, and the occasional subie observation. I found one comment about duratracs being better in deep snow then true winter tires, and would like to hear more specifics

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[anotherVTskibum]

^^ Meh not really that I could find. Lots of comparisons of Dtracs to other AT tires, a few "my all terrains won't break loose in snow no matter what" comments, and the occasional subie observation. I found one comment about duratracs being better in deep snow then true winter tires, and would like to hear more specifics

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Unfortunately, it's really hard to make that comparison without doing an A vs B test in the same conditions (plus very few people who are entirely happy with AT tires are going to bother trying true winter tires).

I've got the Nokian LT2s, and I'd expect a snowflake-rated AT tire to outperform them in deep snow; they simply don't have large-enough tread voids (in my best guess). My only comparison to an AT tire is to a cheap but 3PMSF-rated one (Radar Renegade A/T5). The Renegades perform well, perhaps as well, in softer snow but are terrifying on packed snow and ice. I haven't had enough opportunity to drive soft & deep (6"+) snow to really compare. The only time I have needed to use a shovel with the LT2s on I was high-centered, and I don't think any tire would have solved that problem.

Nokian does make an AT tire, but I don't know how it compares to the Duratracs. They certainly know how to make a tire that does well on packed snow and ice, but I don't know what they would have prioritized in that particular tire.

I wouldn't recommend the LT2s unless you need an LT tire; the SUV series has several newer models since the LT2 was released, and the newer tech is probably better.

[The Tortoise]

Leaning towards Blizzak W965.

I'd go with the DM-V2 instead. It's a more modern tread design (and presumably compound). I have a set on my Highlander and they're incredible. Only drawback might be longevity.

[bodywhomper]

big fan of ko2’s, currently mounted on 3 flowing vehicles. that being written,
this year i’m gonna try out the nokian r3 happafffriggen studless tires on the f150screw.
per the Norseman advice i’ll mount em on steel, keep the ko2’s mounted and swap out for offseason road trips.

I was just lookin at tire rack site. it was odd. I could not find 16” wheels in Toyota lug pattern, 17” was as small as they went. Could not find steel wheels. And holy shit snacks, they’s expensive! Also, I believe 17” tires are mo $$ than the equivalent sized 16”.... it’s a conspiracy! (or i suck at the internet)

[Norseman]

Tire Rack might not be the best place to buy rims.

[Norseman]

A quality post from jamal in another tire thread... all-seasons vs snows:

Tirerack has done a bit of testing. Here's all seasons vs winter
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=103

Stopping distance from 30mph is 59ft on winters, 89ft on all seasons. That works out to coefficients of friction (µ) of 0.34 and 0.51 respectively (actually they would need to be a bit higher to generate those stopping distances in the real world). A good summer tire on pavement can have a cf of 1.0 or more.

Here's winter, a/s, and summer on an ice rink
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

stopping distance from 10mph is 21ft on winters (µ = 0.15), 39ft on all seasons (µ = 0.08). Extrapolate to 30mph and you get stopping distances of 200 ft for winter tires, and 376ft on all seasons. That's a long ass way- over a football field to stop from 30mph. On dry pavement you can do that in like 35ft.

What you might be able to take from that is that on snow, the winter tire has about 50% more grip. That means that from an accelerating and driving up a hill standpoint, in snow, an awd/4wd is going to have an advantage on the worse tires.

On ice though, the winter tires have nearly twice the grip. The tread pattern and depth is irrelevant in this case and the extra grip from the winter tires comes mostly from the rubber compound itself, which is much softer. If you haven't handled a blizzak, it's worth wandering into a firestone store or something and shoving your thumb into the tread to feel how soft it is. That very soft rubber, plus the siping, allows the tread to deform and provide lots of very tiny biting edges as well as having a higher µ. I'm fairly certain that bridgestone even claims better traction on ice with blizzaks than the studded winterforce.

Anyway, if you drive in snow on a regular basis I don't know why you would willfully choose to have 1/2 to 3/4 less traction. Once you have actually driven on snow tires you really won't want to be out on anything else.



E: more data:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=167
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ce-data-page-3

both generate in the ballpark of 0.15g stopping on ice, but only around 0.25 on snow.

[bodywhomper]

Tire Rack might not be the best place to buy rims.

Agree.

[glademaster]

I was just lookin at tire rack site. it was odd. I could not find 16” wheels in Toyota lug pattern, 17” was as small as they went. Could not find steel wheels. And holy shit snacks, they’s expensive! Also, I believe 17” tires are mo $$ than the equivalent sized 16”.... it’s a conspiracy! (or i suck at the internet)

What Toyota are you looking for wheels for? 2010 and newer 4Runners can't accommodate 16 inch wheels because of the size of the disc brakes. 17 inch wheels are the smallest you can run.

I have my snow tires mounted on a pair of hideously ugly aluminum wheels, as they were on closeout and Discount Tire was running a 4 for the price of the 3 deal on top of that, so I ended up paying less than I would have for 17 inch steelies and they're about 12-15 pounds lighter per wheel too.

[bodywhomper]

What Toyota are you looking for wheels for? 2010 and newer 4Runners can't accommodate 16 inch wheels because of the size of the disc brakes. 17 inch wheels are the smallest you can run.

I have my snow tires mounted on a pair of hideously ugly aluminum wheels, as they were on closeout and Discount Tire was running a 4 for the price of the 3 deal on top of that, so I ended up paying less than I would have for 17 inch steelies and they're about 12-15 pounds lighter per wheel too.

1999 land cruiser. 16" is OEM. last year, using the automated tool in tire rack, they'd give me 16" OEM wheel option and then 17 and 18" alternatives. now they give 18" OEM (i don't think that was ever OEM) and 17, 20, and 22" alternatives. i agree with norseman.

toyota also switched to 17" OEM for some vehicles w/o other changes that would functionally necessitate the larger wheel.

[glademaster]

Yeah, disregard, my spiel on wheel sizes was only pertinent for 5th gen 4Runners.

[dfinn]

I was recently looking through receipts for my truck and realized that I've got 50k on my 33" BFG KO2s and they still have quite a bit of life, I should be able to get through this winter no problem. 2000 land cruiser, sees offroad use, mud, snow, sand. These tires have been great: good offroad, good in the snow, nice and quiet on the highway.

They are very sensitive to a good alignment though. Without that they will wear very fast.

[Dantheman]

My Dad got a new truck and gifted me the set of studded Wintercats that won't fit his new truck. What's the best place to get some cheap steel rims to mount these on? TireRack and Discount Tire aren't showing a single basic steelie in 16"/5x135.