Climate Change

[altasnob]

Looks like Europe's idea of sustainable energy is cutting down protected old growth forests in Eastern and Northern Europe to make wood pellets to burn for energy. They actually subsidize this industry, placing "wood" as the number one "renewable energy source" in Europe, ahead of wind and solar. People are apparently dumb enough to think burning wood is an environmentally friendly alternative to burning fossil fuels even though burning wood produces more carbon dioxide. Awesome.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...d-pellets.html

[powdork]

There were 75 million people in the US in 1900., most in the east, very few in the west. There are now 300 million people in the US all over. 225 million more people who need water an infinitely more electricity than those 75 million needed in 1900. Gonna break a few eggs, salomon and frogs to make that happen.

And if you think that's bad, consider the actual population is now 332 million.


If they break Salomon this place will be coming for them with pitchforks!

[Greenstateofmind]

"Looks like Europe's idea of sustainable energy is cutting down protected old growth forests in Eastern and Northern Europe to make wood pellets to burn for energy. They actually subsidize this industry, placing "wood" as the number one "renewable energy source" in Europe, ahead of wind and solar. People are apparently dumb enough to think burning wood is an environmentally friendly alternative to burning fossil fuels even though burning wood produces more carbon dioxide. Awesome."

There is a push in the environmental world to sustainably source wood pellets. Trees grow. Fossil fuels do not. But you knew that.

[heckacali]

Relevant:

https://time.com/6209432/climate-cha...-we-will-live/

Excerpt...

"While nations rally to reduce their carbon emissions, and try to adapt at-risk places to hotter conditions, there is an elephant in the room: for large portions of the world, local conditions are becoming too extreme and there is no way to adapt. People will have to move to survive.

Over the next fifty years, hotter temperatures combined with more intense humidity are set to make large swathes of the globe lethal to live in. Fleeing the tropics, the coasts, and formerly arable lands, huge populations will need to seek new homes; you will be among them, or you will be receiving them. This migration has already begun—we have all seen the streams of people fleeing drought-hit areas in Latin America, Africa, and Asia where farming and other rural livelihoods have become impossible."

[altasnob]

There is a push in the environmental world to sustainably source wood pellets. Trees grow. Fossil fuels do not. But you knew that.

If that's our plan, grow trees and burn them, then we are truly fucked. And as that article points out, they aren't just harvesting fast growing plantation trees, they are harvesting old growth trees from national parks.

Sounds to me like people in wealthy parts of the world pat themselves on the back saying their wood pellets are "sustainable" while ignoring the fact that those poor countries where those wood pellets are coming from don't give a fuck, and any kind of protection laws as just a suggestion.

[Core Shot]

I read about the wood pellets five or ten years ago.
It’s savage. And stupid.

Just burn the methane. Let the trees grow.

[The SnowShow]

Relevant:

https://time.com/6209432/climate-cha...-we-will-live/

Excerpt...

"While nations rally to reduce their carbon emissions, and try to adapt at-risk places to hotter conditions, there is an elephant in the room: for large portions of the world, local conditions are becoming too extreme and there is no way to adapt. People will have to move to survive.

Over the next fifty years, hotter temperatures combined with more intense humidity are set to make large swathes of the globe lethal to live in. Fleeing the tropics, the coasts, and formerly arable lands, huge populations will need to seek new homes; you will be among them, or you will be receiving them. This migration has already begun—we have all seen the streams of people fleeing drought-hit areas in Latin America, Africa, and Asia where farming and other rural livelihoods have become impossible."

Fucking terrifying. This whole thing is spiraling faster than anyone predicted. I have so much climate anxiety, especially for my kid and what she’ll witness.

[shaft]

For starters, state takeover of PGE and SoCalEdison.

And SDG&E. Honestly, there is no way to get to where we need to be with our current dance partners. Dead end.

Second, use taxpayer dollars as well as rate payer dollars to expand generating capacity as fast as possible with non-carbon sources.

No need to start with ratepayer dollars, use the retired PG&E dividends. Use Patti Poppe's $52m per year. Or tax the rich with items like Prop 30...

(Truckee gets a pass because no one makes solar panels rated for our snow loads),

They get a pass on solar for sure, but not on all-electric buildings. As Truckee Town Council moves to vote on all-electric new construction requirements later this year, please take the time to show your support.

If Crested Butte can do it, so can we!

[Dr. Adirondack]

Fucking terrifying. This whole thing is spiraling faster than anyone predicted. I have so much climate anxiety, especially for my kid and what she’ll witness.

And you put her in that position because of that compulsory breeding program we have in this country, right?

I'm in my mid 60's, and have a son in his mid 30's, and thank God he has the good sense to realize it would be nothing but cruel and selfish to have children. He's been right about a lot more than he's been wrong about.

Wish I had listened to him, we would both be a few million dollars richer, and much better positioned to deal with a rapidly changing climate, but I found it awfully hard to listen seriously to someone in his 20's about investment opportunities that were centered on a world that will soon look completely different from the one I was born into.

[SumJongGuy]

I read about the wood pellets five or ten years ago.
It’s savage. And stupid.

Just burn the methane. Let the trees grow.

We could burn the rich people and all their stuff... Eat the rich?

[mar123]

sorry if this has already been posted ....but this vvv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytWLB4-W-M

[Garfield3d]

sorry if this has already been posted ....but this vvv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytWLB4-W-M

So, what I got out of that was because EV's won't solve the whole problem, we shouldn't bother using them as part of a solution.

https://youtu.be/6CXRaTnKDXA?t=03m51s

[PB]

Yup; unless you've got a magic wand, you're part of the problem.

[mar123]

Putting it out there cause I thought it had some valuable insight and I pretty much agree with what he says.

EV's are great in theory, but the current situation we're putting the cart before the horse. Its pointless to have EV's powered by fossil fuels, yep they are...until we have clean energy its pointless ...Solar, Hydro, and Wind are cute and not everyone can benefit from those... its going to take Nuclear energy to make it work globally...Industry and Agriculture are the main contributors so its silly to go after folks driving gas cars when its going to have zero impact if you dont go after Industry and Agriculture FIRST! AND the negative impacts of mining cobalt, lithium, and nickel on the earth to produce all the batteries for the WORLD? and what we'll do with them after? We should be targeting industry first, agriculture second, setting up the infrastructure to support EV's, then lets deal with producing/transitioning to EV's last.

Shoot they were asking people not to charge their EV's in California over the weekend...pretty clear we dont have the infrastructure, and thats a very small percentage compared to gas powered vehicles in CA...imagine if everyone was driving EV's would be a disaster.

If we go into this EV thing without a concrete plan its going to be an absolute shit show.

I'd encourage everyone to do some research on cobalt and lithium mining watch some YouTube videos...toxic cost of going green. Its all a good idea in theory but we gotta figure something out thats sustainable. Theres only a very few people driving EV's now....imagine if the whole world was driving them and what the impacts on our planet would be not only to produce them but how to power them as well.

Its a tricky thing cause its not going to happen with one administration or by slapping a bunch of regulations on industry that cripple business...its going to have to happen with time and innovation...it cant be forced upon people.

Thats all I got haha...post and ghost. bye.

[Bunion 2020]

Their conclusion: Nearly 650,000 individual, privately owned parcels, across as many as 4.4 million acres of land, are projected to fall below changing tidal boundaries by 2050. The land affected could swell to 9.1 million acres by 2100. According to Thursday’s analysis, properties with a collective assessed value of $108 billion could be affected by the end of the century, based on current emissions. But, the authors noted, because complete property values were not available for all counties, the actual total is likely to be far higher.

[PB]

Putting it out there cause I thought it had some valuable insight and I pretty much agree with what he says.

EV's are great in theory, but the current situation we're putting the cart before the horse. Its pointless to have EV's powered by fossil fuels, yep they are...until we have clean energy its pointless ...Solar, Hydro, and Wind are cute and not everyone can benefit from those... its going to take Nuclear energy to make it work globally...Industry and Agriculture are the main contributors so its silly to go after folks driving gas cars when its going to have zero impact if you dont go after Industry and Agriculture FIRST! AND the negative impacts of mining cobalt, lithium, and nickel on the earth to produce all the batteries for the WORLD? and what we'll do with them after? We should be targeting industry first, agriculture second, setting up the infrastructure to support EV's, then lets deal with producing/transitioning to EV's last.

Shoot they were asking people not to charge their EV's in California over the weekend...pretty clear we dont have the infrastructure, and thats a very small percentage compared to gas powered vehicles in CA...imagine if everyone was driving EV's would be a disaster.

If we go into this EV thing without a concrete plan its going to be an absolute shit show.

I'd encourage everyone to do some research on cobalt and lithium mining watch some YouTube videos...toxic cost of going green. Its all a good idea in theory but we gotta figure something out thats sustainable. Theres only a very few people driving EV's now....imagine if the whole world was driving them and what the impacts on our planet would be not only to produce them but how to power them as well.

Its a tricky thing cause its not going to happen with one administration or by slapping a bunch of regulations on industry that cripple business...its going to have to happen with time and innovation...it cant be forced upon people.

Thats all I got haha...post and ghost. bye.

I understand the objective logic, however infrastructure preceding demand isn't mandatory; ideally, sure, but it is often the demand that pushes/creates the infrastructure.

[liv2ski]

Fucking terrifying. This whole thing is spiraling faster than anyone predicted. I have so much climate anxiety, especially for my kid and what she’ll witness.

Yup, I am with you and my wife thinks I drink to much Koolaid. That is why I helped my daughters get their Canadian citizenship years back, as I told them, "at some point in your life, you may want to live there".

[SumJongGuy]

Yup, I am with you and my wife thinks I drink to much Koolaid. That is why I helped my daughters get their Canadian citizenship years back, as I told them, "at some point in your life, you may want to live there".

My wife's employer is based in Canada. Knowing we are in is somewhat comforting. However, if the USA falls to a fascist dictatorship, Canada's sovereignty will also be at great risk, and quickly..

[mar123]

.... but it is often the demand that pushes/creates the infrastructure.

Yes I agree and that is my concern... The natural demand for EV's from the general public that would allow the infrastructure to be built along side demand to support it at a responsible rate isn't happening that way ....Instead the transition from combustion engines to EV's is being pushed onto the general public by our governments at an accelerated rate apx. by 2030 which is extremely irresponsible IMO...and there lies the problem....Unless our government puts in the ground work and creates a solid infrastructure, sustainable mining of resources to produce and clean energy to power BEFORE converting everyone to EV's this will be an absolute disaster. I dont think governments should be pushing people towards EV's and countries banning combustion engines is not necessarily a good thing. Give the people time to innovate and come up with reasonable solutions...IMO governments telling people what and when they can drive is not a good thing for us. EV's in California is a prime example its already a shitshow.

This infrastructure build out is already happening ....National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program.

The damage we are going to inflict to our earth to mine all the materials necessary to build EVs for the world and how to power them IMO just seems worse rather then if we stayed with combustion engines and found ways to make them run more efficient and reduce emissions. Maybe im wrong who knows.

But you can expect major Lithium mining operations to start popping up here in the US...one place to keep an eye on is Thacker Pass in Nevada... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejF2aGRAmrI

[shaft]

Unless our government puts in the ground work and creates a solid infrastructure, sustainable mining of resources to produce and clean energy to power BEFORE converting everyone to EV's this will be an absolute disaster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejF2aGRAmrI

We are behind...by a lot. When you throw a hail mary, you don't aim for where the receiver is, but where you want them to be. When you catch a hail mary, you don't wait for the ball to be in the air to sprint as fast as you can. Growth on all sides of the renewable energy-electrification nexus must be planned and occur in parallel.

-By the time a car purchased today is retired (in 2037), no matter where it is, it will likely be running on 90%+ carbon free electricity.
-If purchased today in Norway, it will run on 100% carbon free electricity for its entire life.
-If purchased today in San Mateo County, where 50% of new vehicles sales were EVs so far this year, it is already running on 100% carbon free electricity.
-EV has already been better on total emissions for years.

Generally speaking, your arguments to maintain the status quo, or wait for some magical event, or research it more, or move slower - remind me of an old document. These are the sabotage tactics being employed by the fossil fuel industry every day, and whether you are pushing this narrative on purpose or as a naive tool of the fossil fuel industry, you appear to be using the same tactics.

Simple Sabotage Field Manual, 1944

(11) General Interference with Organizations and Production

(a) Organizations and Conferences (1) Insist on doing everything through “channels.” Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.

(2) Make “speeches.” Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your “points” by long anecdotes and accounts of personal experiences. Never hesitate to make a few appropriate “patriotic” comments.

(3) When possible, refer all matters to committees, for “further study and consideration.” Attempt to make the committees as large as possible—never less than five.

(4) Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible.

(5) Haggle over precise wordings of communications, minutes, resolutions.

(6) Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision.

(7) Advocate “caution.” Be “reasonable” and urge your fellow-conferees to be “reasonable” and avoid haste which might result in embarrassments or difficulties later on.

(8) Be worried about the propriety of any decision—raise the question of whether such action as is contemplated lies within the jurisdiction of the group or whether it might conflict with the policy of some higher echelon.

[AK47bp]

And you put her in that position because of that compulsory breeding program we have in this country, right?

I'm in my mid 60's, and have a son in his mid 30's, and thank God he has the good sense to realize it would be nothing but cruel and selfish to have children. He's been right about a lot more than he's been wrong about.

Wish I had listened to him, we would both be a few million dollars richer, and much better positioned to deal with a rapidly changing climate, but I found it awfully hard to listen seriously to someone in his 20's about investment opportunities that were centered on a world that will soon look completely different from the one I was born into.

Hol up here for a minute.

So you and your son both agree he should of been an abortion?




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[The SnowShow]

I’d like to think we’ll come up with something to avoid a future like that in the Time article. JFC.

[mar123]

We are behind...by a lot. When you throw a hail mary, you don't aim for where the receiver is, but where you want them to be. When you catch a hail mary, you don't wait for the ball to be in the air to sprint as fast as you can. Growth on all sides of the renewable energy-electrification nexus must be planned and occur in parallel.

-By the time a car purchased today is retired (in 2037), no matter where it is, it will likely be running on 90%+ carbon free electricity.
-If purchased today in Norway, it will run on 100% carbon free electricity for its entire life.
-If purchased today in San Mateo County, where 50% of new vehicles sales were EVs so far this year, it is already running on 100% carbon free electricity.
-EV has already been better on total emissions for years.

Generally speaking, your arguments to maintain the status quo, or wait for some magical event, or research it more, or move slower - remind me of an old document. These are the sabotage tactics being employed by the fossil fuel industry every day, and whether you are pushing this narrative on purpose or as a naive tool of the fossil fuel industry, you appear to be using the same tactics.

Bwaa haha San Mateo County cant even power their city and is asking people to reduce their power consumption....and this is the future? yeah ok. Im not against EV's but there are some major issues and concerns that should be addressed.

[paulster2626]

Hol up here for a minute.

So you and your son both agree he should of been an abortion?




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No, no, you've misunderstood. It's okay for him to have a child, just not anyone else later on.

[uglymoney]

Bwaa haha San Mateo County cant even power their city and is asking people to reduce their power consumption....and this is the future? yeah ok. Im not against EV's but there are some major issues and concerns that should be addressed.

Snap! For sure need to cancel the EV program now that the climate change induced heatwave was successfully navigated in Cali with barely more than a few blown transformers.

Should go with the Texas model. The way they handled the natural gas freezeup during a record cold climate induced extreme weather event was brilliant. Huge win for natural gas profits. If the Koch Brothers are winning, we all win. We are still paying a nat gas premium for their (winning) fuck up here in Iowa but that only proves the status quo is working!

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