SNOW IN THE PNW 2016-17: Return of the Shred-i

[BeardMech]

Naw. It's TGR. I get my share. Enjoy. My fault for not realizing that you couldn't see me laughing at me when I wrote my 1st post. I'm still avy ignorant but have progressed to where I am no longer so dumb. Now I know when I might be being dumb. I know how dumb I am and adjust.

Anyway, statistically the odds are millions to one that anyone dies on the first slope they run in the back country, so when you do go the first time, go big.

Its my bad, should have seen that.

Right now since I don't have an avy kit and this past season was my first time with an AT binding/skins, I was just skinning up hyak for some turns when they were closed during the week. I love alpental but, with my current skill level, I really enjoy shredding hyak (I love hidden valley).

[Greydon Clark]

Yeah, damn, that'll toast the Ranger Cr trails, I suppose

This fire is burning a lot of great hiking and biking trails. Hopefully it isn't burning so hot that the area is toasted and barren for decades.

[Norseman]

Meh, even if it torches the trees fully, there'll be green undergrowth next year. Might make some of that riding pretty fun, with good viz through the black snags.

[plugboots]

Exactly. I rode a lot of trails east of Winthrop that were burned, and just weeks after the aspens were already poking out. After 2-3 seasons on the West fork of the Methow Trail there was so much Buckbrush it was basically a huge pain and I stopped riding there. That one season though after the fire was the best, because you could see so far ahead and you could just rail everything.

[PNWbrit]

Meh, even if it torches the trees fully, there'll be green undergrowth next year. Might make some of that riding pretty fun, with good viz through the black snags.

That riding already is fun.

Rode Ranger on Saturday. Do most weekends.

This fire is burning a lot of great hiking and biking trails. Hopefully it isn't burning so hot that the area is toasted and barren for decades.

^ This.

[Mofro261]

Exactly. I rode a lot of trails east of Winthrop that were burned, and just weeks after the aspens were already poking out. After 2-3 seasons on the West fork of the Methow Trail there was so much Buckbrush it was basically a huge pain and I stopped riding there. That one season though after the fire was the best, because you could see so far ahead and you could just rail everything.

I dunno man, biking maybe, but I hiked thru the 2001 30 mile fire zone in ~2008 and it was nasty and still dangerous due to dead tree fall. Skiing thru the burn behind Stevens tho...

[Norseman]

Yep, sad to say goodbye to the big cool trees, for sure. I remember feeling heartbroken when returning to the South Climb TH on Adams a few years ago, 9 months after the place blew up... seeing charred snags and ash where there were grand groves of Doug fir and beargrass the time before. I'll never forget that sight and the feeling... but it was definitely interesting, and felt kind of refreshing and adventurous, seeing the forest born new again.

Seems like we've got to make a shift in our thoughts about wildfire, right? I think we probably need to embrace fire as a healthy, normal part of the forest lifecycle, bringing public attitude in line with more modern understanding of forest management where shit should be allowed to burn unless a significant threat to infrastructure or dwellings is apparent. Fire policy status quo will glide on unless we start to change our minds, eh?

Goes against our instinct in a way, maybe? Certainly we get attached to the mature forests, and change is scary.

[BeardMech]

It's not like CMSP will forget to do control work because of the fires. BeardMech, before you head over to the slide zone you can ponder this. Trees and vegetation often act as weak points in the snowpack and can make it more likely that you will trigger an avalanche, especially early in the season.

I'm looking forward to a wind shift, driving to work last night visibility was around 1/2 of a mile because of the smoke. It's now approaching September 2012 levels of shitty.

Most definitely. I understand a little bit why especially in the early part of the season having vegetation and trees can be a contributing factor in an avalanche. The weather early on seems like it can be a dangerous thing even with a shallow snow pack. Especially in the PNW temperatures will often be around 32 degree I imagine. I figure that the vegetation/ground cover can end up with a bed surface for an avalanche. With the temperature at or above 32 rain can cause rapid loading, and rain crusts. The temperature and sun can change the snows settlement and the creep rate of the upper snow pack, and with a potentially weak layer that is the bed on the vegetation . Surface hoar on the bed of snow upon the vegetation can become depth hoar, leading to a weak layer that can will stick around until something like a skier cause it to shear, producing an avalanche.

I know a tree in a shallow snow pack can be a trigger point, but not sure how that works exactly.

cheers.

Edit: I can see that this now belongs in the slidezone

[PNWbrit]

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/5594/

Sawmill Creek Fire few miles NE of Greenwater now has own inciweb update.... heard rumors this was from a camp fire.

People were asking vendors in GW over weekend where they could buy fire wood.

[californiagrown]

I know a tree in a shallow snow pack can be a trigger point, but not sure how that works exactly.

Which would you trust to stay intact when wiping your ass, an intact sheet of TP, or a sheet of TP with a bunch of holes in it?


Al these fires are giving friends work though, and making all these MTB trail closures on timber land look awfully smart. The rains cannot come soon enough for me.

[BeardMech]

Ah thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

[pipedream]

I was gonna spew some anti-California vitriol but then I realized



Trees: Smoke 'em while you've got 'em...

[goldengatestinx]

Most definitely. I understand a little bit why especially in the early part of the season having vegetation and trees can be a contributing factor in an avalanche. The weather early on seems like it can be a dangerous thing even with a shallow snow pack. Especially in the PNW temperatures will often be around 32 degree I imagine. I figure that the vegetation/ground cover can end up with a bed surface for an avalanche. With the temperature at or above 32 rain can cause rapid loading, and rain crusts. The temperature and sun can change the snows settlement and the creep rate of the upper snow pack, and with a potentially weak layer that is the bed on the vegetation . Surface hoar on the bed of snow upon the vegetation can become depth hoar, leading to a weak layer that can will stick around until something like a skier cause it to shear, producing an avalanche.

I know a tree in a shallow snow pack can be a trigger point, but not sure how that works exactly.

cheers.

Edit: I can see that this now belongs in the slidezone

Tree or rock on a snowfield acts as a stress concentration point. Like a chip in a windshield, it creates a weak spot that allows loads that would normally not be large enough to create a fracture to allow the snowpack (or windshield) to fail.

Additionally a rock or tree will act as a heat sink and warm the snow around it creating temperature differentials that weaken the otherwise uniform pack.

[PNWbrit]

$40k donated to GW & Crystal fire departments in a day.

https://www.gofundme.com/crystal-mou...eenwater-fires

Give some if you can.

Helicopters flying today.

[tripice351]

Hadn't been following the PNW peeps lately, just saw the news on the Crystal fire. Holy fuck! Vibes to those affected.

[PNWbrit]

Detailed new map released late last night.

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/WAOW...36.966-CDT.pdf

[PNWbrit]

The pictures below were taken in 1934 from the area of Mount Clifty (near the present Naches and Cle Elum Ranger District borders) at North Ridge Lookout, which no longer exists. These pictures are the only known record of large fire history on the Naches Ranger District in the same area as the Norse Peak Fire's eastern portion. You will notice the 360 degree markings on the pictures that indicate the direction in which the photo was taken.
The photo facing 310-0 degrees (north) shows the area between the Norse Peak Fire and the Jolly Mountain Fire. Many burned trees left standing.
The photo facing 180-300 degrees (south-west) shows Mt. Rainier, with some of the area of the Norse Peak Fire in the distance. Many burned trees left standing.
The photo facing 80-180 degrees (east-south) shows views in the direction of the Norse Peak Fire, showing a barren hillside in the distance.

[Greydon Clark]

^^^Thanks for posting the photos.^^^

Hiked around Commonwealth Basin at the Pass yesterday, smoke from the Norse Peak fire was faintly visible.

[snoqpass]

http://iamwho.com/cdv2/pages/region6.htm

[wickstad]

My dad's dad took his family from North Dakota to Seattle in 1936 in a Ford Model T. My dad was the youngest at 3 years old. His dad told him that they crossed the Cascades at Naches Pass for "the views".

[PNWbrit]

http://iamwho.com/cdv2/pages/region6.htm

That's a cool site.

Need to get back into the habit of signing up for nights at Sun Top/Huckleberry lookouts.

[californiagrown]

That's a cool site.

Need to get back into the habit of signing up for nights at Sun Top/Huckleberry lookouts.

How do you go about doing this? Can you only do this after/before peak fire season? Can you PM me if you don't want to share the beta publicly?

[PNWbrit]

How do you go about doing this? Can you only do this after/before peak fire season? Can you PM me if you don't want to share the beta publicly?

FS in Enumscratch host an annual meeting with a raffle of dates at the two lookouts.

The meeting is interminable and deeply tedious because they go through the endless instruction, "safety" protocols, radio instructions, and on and on and on .. then there's a question and answer session before the raffle takes place. Last time I attended winning the raffle won you 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc picks of two night blocks at either cabin.... so the winners machinations about what date or location to pick took until late at night.

It is a cool place to stay though. Gus enjoys it.



He and I took my Dad there last time I had some nights.



One of the all time best cribbage marathons took place.

[PNWbrit]

Level 1 evacuation notices just issued for the Villages and CR Ranch (the three communities off of 410 just south of Greenwater)

[Norseman]

Fack... sharks in the waters.