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11-14-2022, 01:11 PM #776Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Background = live in Western Mass, but not at any elevation, on a plowed paved street (unlike friends who live on dirt roads in the nearby "Hilltowns"), and despite chasing backcountry powder, winter driving is a mix of thin snow, slush, wet, and dry (with deep unplowed snow very rare).
When I owned a string of Subaru Legacy sedans, I first used a mix of various Blizzak models (LM-25, WS60, LM-25 RFT), then I switched to three sets in a row of the WRG3. Never noticed any difference in winter performance upon switching to the WRG3. And dry road performance was obviously a huge difference, felt like any typical all-season tire.
For my 2019 VW Arteon, the OEM tire sidewalls made me a bit nervous for pothole blowouts (245/40R19), so I got a separate winter setup, Vredestein Wintrac Pro (245/45R18). Winter performance was fine as always, and noticeable better than the OEM tires during a couple early-season winter driving experiences that caught me by surprise before the winter setup was swapped, whoops! Dry road performance wasn't quite as smooth as an all-season or all-weather tire, but excellent by the standards of a winter tire. And wet performance in all the tests is so much better than any "Nordic"-style studless winter tire.
For my 2022 Audi A6 Allroad, the OEM tires have enough sidewall (245/45R20), so last week I replaced the OEM tires with the Michelin CrossClimate2. (Had been looking previously at the Vredestein Quatrac Pro, but the CC2 comes out on top in the tests by Consumer Reports and Tire Rack, which are the only U.S. objective tests I've seen. The WRG4 seems to have been a step back from WRG3 predecessor.) Looks like I'll be able to report back on Thursday as to winter performance, powder day at Hike-O Pico!
I'm sure drivers who live in deep snow climates (like my brother in Tahoe) or in consistently cold climates have good reasons for buying dedicated winter tires. But all-weather tires are so perfect for people in our situations. As a poster over at GapicSki recently commented, "Just like with skis, but tires for the conditions you expect to encounter, not the conditions you hope to encounter." (Especially true given how poorly Nordic/studless winter tires perform in the wet.)Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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11-14-2022, 02:09 PM #777
Just to add - I've gone through at least 4 sets of WRGs, 2x WRG3 and 2x WRG4, and there isn't a noticeable difference for me. Very good, do recommend.
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11-14-2022, 06:33 PM #778
Awesome insight, thanks! I got away with the OEM low profile size last 2 seasons, but needing something new I def want to go to a 225 or 245 50r17 vs my current 245/40r18.
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11-14-2022, 07:36 PM #779
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12-04-2022, 01:21 PM #780
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12-04-2022, 03:56 PM #781
I'd be interested in an update next winter after you have had them for a year. I liked my all weather tires in the winter a lot more on their first winter than their second after the shoulders on the lugs have rounded out a little.
Sent from my SM-A536W using TapatalkGoal: ski in the 2018/19 season
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12-07-2022, 12:23 PM #782Registered User
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- Feb 2020
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- 138
Looking forward to hearing how the CrossClimates work since I just ordered a set.
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12-07-2022, 12:29 PM #783
I've gone up to 3 winters on a set of WRG3s, the 3rd winter was notably worse, but 1 and 2 are really good, IMO.
Also, since I drive a lot in the summer, I tend to get ~40k out of these tires, but you can warranty them with the manufacturer below ~60k I believe. The warranty is scaled based on use, but usually it turns into one free tire. 3 summers and 2 winters for the cost of 3 tires isn't so bad.
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12-07-2022, 12:34 PM #784
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12-07-2022, 12:41 PM #785
I live in Santa Fe NM and spend a certain amount of time in the winter driving on either packed snow or dry pavement, but also going up into the mountains for skiing regularly, in and after storms. The CCs are perfect for that. And I just drove on dry highways and freeways through the desert to northern CA and they were wonderful on that.
If I drove regularly in wet, deep snow like the Cascades I’d probably think about something like X-Ice.
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12-07-2022, 01:11 PM #786
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12-07-2022, 02:49 PM #787Registered User
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- Feb 2020
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- 138
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12-07-2022, 04:53 PM #788
"All weather" tires in place of winter tires
Any feedback on the Outpost AT? A weird fender bender has me buying a new set of tires and I'm between them and the General Grabber A/Tx which I've been running on my F150 the last 50k.
Snow performance matters as I just run 1 set of tires on this truck.
Before everyone piles on. The fender bender had nothing to do with my all terrain tires lol.
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12-08-2022, 08:18 AM #789Registered User
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- May 2022
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- Truckee
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- 855
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12-08-2022, 08:29 AM #790
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12-08-2022, 08:37 AM #791Registered User
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- May 2022
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- Truckee
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- 855
Completely depends upon the situation. In deep snow, sometimes piling snow in front of tires is a good thing. For the most part, being able to still steer while braking is better than being locked and turning into a sled. Certainly, some ABS systems are better than others, too.
Same with traction control. I have personally proven that traction control can, in some cases, be better than my throttle foot. I tried fully rally mode in my old Range Rover to get up the driveway. I hardly made it past the first turn on my driveway. Snow mode got it to the top turn before it had to be drug the rest of the way up. Impressive. Conversely, my wife's X5 flat couldn't get to my driveway (Nov slush) with her driving and DSC engaged. I shut it off and rallied half way up the drive before dragging it with the tractor. I just had to keep the tires spinning and cleared.
That brings us back to snow tires: the X5 was on Pirelli Scorpion AS. Absolutely treacherous in snow. I drug it up to the house and put it on Blizzak's. No more issues.
There are AS tires that are better than others (Vredestein Quatrac comes to mind), but none are as good as a dedicated snow tire.
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12-08-2022, 08:39 AM #792
I don’t have a ton of kms on them yet, but so far they haven’t scared me driving dry snow winter conditions. Seem to handle the highway ice alright, and went up a plowed forestry road for a Yule tree in auto 4wd without serious slippage (I was trying a bit on the corners). Nowhere near as sticky on the pack ice on the side streets start & stopping with no weight as the set of studded haks I am keeping in reserve though. FWIW, these on the 1/2ton are better performing than the Nokian Rotiiva AT+ on the taco that has the sled in the bed.
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12-08-2022, 10:19 AM #793Registered User
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- Mar 2008
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- northern BC
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- 30,879
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12-08-2022, 10:21 AM #794
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12-08-2022, 10:31 AM #795Registered User
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- May 2012
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- PNW
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- 764
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12-08-2022, 10:52 AM #796
"All weather" tires in place of winter tires
I’ve been quite happy with the Cross Climates, happy enough that I just bought a second set for the CRV. I’m coming off Nokian Hakka 8s with studs. Definitely not as good but only really noticeable on ice.
If you are near Tahoe / N California and want a set of wheels and Nokian Hakka 8s send me a PM. Tires are at 4 or 6 on wear. I believe the wheels are off a Odyssey but fit a CRV. 16”.
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12-08-2022, 11:19 AM #797
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12-08-2022, 03:18 PM #798Registered User
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- Apr 2007
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- Almost Mountains
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- 1,883
They're friggin expensive and the LT3 is damn near impossible to source due to the Russian factory being off the board.
So that's two things.
I'm still planning to buy a set of LT3s next year, assuming fresh stock is available. My five-year-old, 60%ish LT2s have been doing pretty well since I put them on after my local shop failed to secure the set of second-choice tires I thought they were ordering for me before the distributor ran out of LT275/70-18.
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12-08-2022, 03:26 PM #799
I pulled the trigger on the Outpost ATs. They were a hare cheaper than General Grabber A/Tx and significantly cheaper than Falken AT3w. I'm excited to see how they do.
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12-08-2022, 03:36 PM #800
Data point: I ran Hakka R2's and then R3's for years. Got tired of (a) seasonal swaps and (b) really only seeing an advantage for the last 15% of the drive (SF Bay>tahoe, or SF Bay>UT/WY/MT).
Took a flier and tried the Falken wildpeak A/T trail (not the 3W). They are basically light AT tires, quiet and good handling on dry, but with 3-peak rating. Running them year-round.
I'm sure there is a marginal difference but I can't feel it. They have been unstoppable in snow and zero issues on ice. And the benefits of being able to run them year-round and off-road in the summer are awesome. Highly endorsed.
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