"All weather" tires in place of winter tires

[El Chupacabra]

NOTE: before any of you start spouting off about how "all-seasons" are "no-seasons," this thread is not about "all-season" tires.

There is an old thread about Nokian WRs here:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...okian-WR-tires

Curious what the maggots' experience has been with the (somewhat) new "all-weather" tires, which are supposedly much better in snow/ice than all-seasons, not as good as true winter tires, and can be used year-round.

The only "all weather" tires I could find:

Nokian WR: this is the WR G3, which I think is the current version:
https://www.nokiantires.com/winter-tires/nokian-wrg3/

Toyo Celsius: (there is also a Celsius CUV; different sizes):
https://www.toyotires.com/tire/patte...onditions-tire

Hankook Optimo 4S: (not sure this is sold in the US)
http://www.hankooktire.com/global/ti...o-4s-h730.html

Any others?


I'm interested because for my winter use (Tahoe), winter tires are somewhat overkill -- most driving is on dry roads, and long interstate drives on dry pavement are treadlife killers on true winter tires. IMHO around here, an all-terrain tread SUV/truck tire (with decent tread depth for snow) is about the perfect year-round tire, but that's not something I can fit on my car. I have a set of General Altimax Arctics currently, but for the next set, something like the Nokian all-weather would probably be a better fit for me.

[teledad]

I've had all 3 generations of the Nokian WR's, running them year-round on an Outback with a lot of freeway miles between Tahoe and the Bay Area. I'm generally happy with them for this kind of use. On snow I think they do almost as well as the dedicated winter tires I've used (Blizzaks and Cooper studs). There's a more noticeable difference on ice, especially compared to studs. Summer use is fine as long as you're not looking for ultimate performance (e.g. trying to push the limits in corners). Then again if I cared that much about performance I wouldn't be driving a 4 cylinder Subie. They're a little noisy compared to some all-seasons but the mileage is good. I get about 30K miles on a set. One possible hassle is finding someone who carries them - I usually just order online and have my local tire shop install them.

[auvgeek]

^^Very informative. Does anyone else have any personal experience with the real-world difference between all-weather tires and studless winter tires, e.g., the WRG3 vs the Hakka R2?

[Gunder]

I put the Nokian WR's on the wife's Rogue as 99% of the driving for that car is getting grocers in town where we get a shit ton of rain and no snow. When I am out of town, they will still get her to the hill unless its a significant snow day, but they are no where near as good as a true snow tire. I run the load rated studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta's on my truck and have yet to find anything else that comes close. It is also my job to chase snow, so for me it makes a lot of sense to invest in a high-end snow tire. If she was driving her car to the hill more than a handful days a season I would put cheap snow tires on it and keep the WR's for the other 3 seasons.

Even low-end snow tires are better than the WR's for driving in snow. Having two sets of tires just makes both sets last longer too.

[El Chupacabra]

I've had all 3 generations of the Nokian WR's

I put the Nokian WR's on the wife's Rogue

What do you both think of the Nokian WR vs. an all-season tire in snow? (assuming good tread depth for both) Major improvement, middling improvement, no improvement?

[galibier_numero_un]

I have sets of both WR G3s and Hakkapeliittas purchased the same year for my '08 Outback.

I look at the WR G3s as more of a good all season than all weather, and perhaps this is because I've been spoiled by my Hakkapeliittas.

There's no comparison between the two & I always regret not making the swap over to the Hakkas if I get caught in an early season Blizzard. It's both ice performance and deep snow behavior that are superior.

My understanding is that the WR G2 was a bit more cold weather biased, and the WR G3 was biased more for the warmer 3 seasons - no doubt due to gas mileage/rolling resistance considerations. My wife has a set of WR G2s but I've never driven her car in the snow, so I can't state this from experience.

My wife's car rarely gets uphill, so the WR G2s are fine for the application, but (like Gunder's wife), if she drove in snow a lot then dedicated snows would be the ticket. She drives around Boulder/Longmont in the Winter, which gets maybe 20-40 inches/year and she doesn't have to go out if the driving weather is bad.

Both the WR G3's and the Hakkapeliittas are quite durable.

I was starting to get a bit light on the tread for a snow this Spring (maybe 4.5mm depth @ 25K miles) and decided to leave them on all Summer to beat the crap on them. Well, the sunnuva bitches hardly wore with the warm weather abuse (they're up to 34K miles now). I wouldn't make a habit of leaving them on year-round as it seems wasteful, and the handling is definitely "squishy" in warm temperatures.

Looking at the treads on the WR G3s (with about 21K miles on them according to my log), they look as if they'll be good for 40K miles.

Cheers,
Thom

[Gunder]

What do you both think of the Nokian WR vs. an all-season tire in snow? (assuming good tread depth for both) Major improvement, middling improvement, no improvement?

They are slightly better than all seasons, but far from being a true snow tire. The compound tends to grip better on bare and wet to slightly slushy , but once you are on compact snow, or in significant slush there is no comparison.

[nickwm21]

Just came here to post that I didn't even know this catagory of tire even existed. Looking at Tirerack right now, they do not even have an option for this.... But that seems like the type of tire I have always wanted.

[dump]

I'm on my second pair of WRs on a 2007 Rav4, bought the first pair right after they came out with the tire. What sold me at the time was that they were really pushing the tire's ability in slush (as opposed to compact snow). In my driving to the mountains from the Seattle area, I have always found the transition from rain to snow as the most dangerous part of the drive. I think over 8 or so years and many miles they got loose twice and electronic stability control kicked in and traction regained very quickly. Don't know if dedicated snow tires would have helped in those situations. Interesting comment about the tire potentially changing in the latest generation to being biased more towards the warmer 3 seasons. That is something I would definitely look into before potentially buying the WR3.

[oldblue]

Years ago I put the original WRs on the wife's car (seems to be a theme here). I was underwhelmed with them as a winter tire, but they were better than all seasons in the winter for sure. For the other three seasons handling seemed pretty vague. I did like them on dirt roads though. Maybe a good 3 season Vermont tire?

Since then I've gone back to 2 sets of wheels/tires and much prefer it.

[auvgeek]

There's no comparison between the two & I always regret not making the swap over to the Hakkas if I get caught in an early season Blizzard. It's both ice performance and deep snow behavior that are superior.

Thanks for the useful insights. Do you notice a difference in dry or wet road performance between the two? Which Hakkas are you running? Studded/studless?

[galibier_numero_un]

No studs on the Hakka's.

By wet roads, if you mean above freezing (or mag chloride on the road), I can't make an informed comparison - too few relevant situations-spread out over time.

I'd guess that they're too close to care about in these conditions, but it's just a guess.

Cheers,
Thom

[Gunder]

Thanks for the useful insights. Do you notice a difference in dry or wet road performance between the two? Which Hakkas are you running? Studded/studless?

The hakka's are griper on wet roads.... if there is standing water then the WR's are slightly better than my studded hakka's

[mf0cb6]

For Tahoe travel, I prefer "performance snow" tires for my car (e.g., Dunlop Wintersport) When the tread is deep, they perform well in snow/ice as well as the long "approach" to the mountain. As they wear down, I use them as summer tires on a spare set of wheels (and swap in a new set of winter tires).

You do give up a bit of traction, but been through a lot of heavy storms with minimal plowage and icy conditions with AWD. For me, I worry more about clearance on my somewhat low to the ground car. Slow your roll and you'll do fine.

[otto parts]

Just got a set of Yokohama geolander go15
Mountain snowflake rating but w 600 tread wear.

Hated using full on snows for Nov and April shoulder months (ESP when I only need for last 30 miles of 160 mile trip to Tahoe) so hopefully these are good enough. Will report back, hopefully soon.

[The Tortoise]

I've heard the Hankooks aren't any better than A/S tires. I'd knock them off your list.

Another option would be to run Michelin X-Ices year round as they are among the longest lived winter tires.

[galibier_numero_un]

I've heard the Hankooks aren't any better than A/S tires. I'd knock them off your list.

Another option would be to run Michelin X-Ices year round as they are among the longest lived winter tires.

There are tons of threads here on the X-ice, Nokian Hakkas and General Arctic Altimax (Gislaved).

Cheers,
Thom

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I had a pair of Pirelli "performance snows" that did not perform in snow.

[wakefield]

Interesting comment about the tire potentially changing in the latest generation to being biased more towards the warmer 3 seasons. That is something I would definitely look into before potentially buying the WR3.

I'm definitely curious if anyone has any experience with both the WR2 and WR3 and has noticed a difference. In the next month I was going to grab a set of WR3s for the Tahoe drive, but if they've shifted to better performance for warmer seasons, that's a no-go.

[galibier_numero_un]

Just got a set of Yokohama geolander go15
Mountain snowflake rating but w 600 tread wear.

Hated using full on snows for Nov and April shoulder months (ESP when I only need for last 30 miles of 160 mile trip to Tahoe) so hopefully these are good enough. Will report back, hopefully soon.

The shoulder months are what always create confusion/doubt with me as well.

I got the WR G3's to resolve this dilemma.

I truthfully can't state how much better they are than standard all seasons (or worse than the WR G2's). It's the age old problem of comparing a worn out tire against a new one and I won't fall into that trap.

Cheers,
Thom

[El Chupacabra]

Thanks for all the input - keep it coming. Especially interested in hearing feedback from anyone who's used these all weather tires, and can offer comparisons to winter and all seasons.

One more tire I forgot to list in the first post, and probably belongs in this category : Continental Extreme Contact DWS :

http://www.continentaltire.com/produ...s-19550r16-84w

[galibier_numero_un]

The General Arctic Altimax comes up in a lot of the threads here (they're made by Gislaved).

Cheers,
Thom

[esseff]

Just curious, why can't you fit an A/T tire on your rig?

I too spend a lot of time on 80 between SF and and TC and I've been pretty much unstoppable in a Yokohama Geolandar AT/S on a Land Cruiser. Great tire.

IMHO around here, an all-terrain tread SUV/truck tire (with decent tread depth for snow) is about the perfect year-round tire, but that's not something I can fit on my car.

[El Chupacabra]

The General Arctic Altimax comes up in a lot of the threads here (they're made be Gislaved).

Cheers,
Thom

Those are what I have now for a winter tire set. I read something about these "all weather" type tires and was thinking that they might be a better choice for the next set.

The Altimax Arctic isn't as soft at the Blizzaks I used to have, but not as good on dry roads as the Michelin X Ice I had years earlier. They were all fairly fast wearing.

Just curious, why can't you fit an A/T tire on your rig?

I too spend a lot of time on 80 between SF and and TC and I've been pretty much unstoppable in a Yokohama Geolandar AT/S on a Land Cruiser. Great tire.

Because it's an AWD car. Stock size is 225/45/17, which is the size of the winter tires I have. I use 235/45/17 for my 3-season set, as they fill out the wheel wells a little better.

[bodywhomper]

I had some wr2 on my subi. They were ok in the winter (much better than all season tires, not even close in cold stuff than blizzaks or studless generals) and wore through the outer winter compound before the next winter came along in less than 8k miles. That was a pretty underwhelming experience. I've also had the more aggressive (looking) blizzaks and Altimax arctics on the same car. Driving in a mixture or gravel, dirt, snow, sludge/slush, ice, cold pavement, and hot pavement, I could not tell a lot of difference between the blizzaks and the generals, except when the blizzaks wore out of the winter compound, then they generally sucked on anything wet. I've been using the generals for many years year-round.