Launching SwitchSki Binding Adapter Plates!

[ericvoneast]

I’m a part-time Tahoe ski bum, and full-time engineering student, and wanted to share a product I’ve been working on: an adapter plate that lets you slip the bindings off your skis and mount them on any other ski in your quiver …or click another binding into their place. Check out the site at www.switchski.com or read on below.

I was fed up saving for expensive bindings on a grad school budget, and wanted a way to easily switch bindings between skis. I came up with the SwitchSki idea last year, and skied about 500,000 vertical feet on prototypes before realizing that other people might have the same problem. I’ve been able to quickly swap to resort bindings after backcountry dawn patrol, or change from powder skis to all-mountain skis in the time it takes my friends to put their boots on.

BindingFreedom and Quiver Killers have done a great job rolling out some products for specific needs, but I didn’t want to fuss with tools and Loctite in the parking lot between laps, or be stuck with a limited set of binding combinations. The solution I came up with has proven to be robust, adaptable, and doesn’t introduce any noticeable slop or flex.

I need your feedback and help promoting these as I start working with vendors to manufacture the adapters. I don’t know whether this is something that just I and my wife will use, or whether there’s 2000 people out there who would love to have these- and that will affect how I approach the manufacturing process. So check out the site and pre-order yours: I won’t ask for billing information until we’ve hammered out manufacturing and have shipped your adapters.

Some quick FAQs to get the ball rolling:

Are these for everybody?
-No. If you only want to have one pair of skis and bindings, you’re already set. And if you’re a skimo weight weenie who thinks that Speed Radicals are too heavy, then threaded inserts will better fit your philosophy. But for the rest of us who like to have a healthy quiver of skis, these could help.

Are they strong enough for me?
-Yes. I’ve engineered these to withstand DIN 20 forces, so even if you weigh 300lbs and like to huck 40-foot cliffs, these should keep you happy. They’re designed to outlast your skis, and are as simple as possible to avoid potential failure modes. The current prototypes are machined aluminum with a stainless steel latch mechanism; the final production models should be stamped stainless steel or stamped hardened aluminum- the same things your bindings are made with.

Can you cover my whole quiver?
-Yup. I’ve listed two starter kits for basic needs, but you can order as many additional sets of binding plates or base plates as you need. For example, if you have 3 pairs of bindings (e.g. backcountry, resort, telemark) and 3 pairs of skis (powder, all-mountain, skinny), you'll need 3 sets of top plates and 3 sets of base plates. The combination of the two “Starter Kits” would let me do this for $320… giving you 9 possible combinations of skis. Compare that with the cost of buying new skis and bindings.

Lots more details on the site, switchski.com ; head over and check it out! I’ll be adding more photos as I take them; hopefully the storm moving through Tahoe will give us enough snow for product photos in fresh powder!

[zartagen]

Whoa, right forum and everything. I'm sure somebody needs these. Good luck!

[selle]

Looks cool!

2 questions:
- Can these handle different boot lengths? If so, how?
- How much stack height is added?

[papatroller]

Very cool! Why won't things be ready until Fall 2017? Seems like a long way off for introducing it. Most importantly, does any slop exist or develop under harsh skiing conditions? Would love to see more information and one in action as the site seems pretty vague and doesn't have a lot of information at this point. If I could get a set in the next month or two I would like to try em.

[doebedoe]

Looks like a nice alternative to CAST system and inserts now that SollyFit/DynaDuke plates are no longer made.

A few questions / observations:

- What material are they made out of? Why is that material the best choice?
- A table of all binding weights would be good, along with there total stack height when used with the ski plates. Most people who care about weight thinking in grams not oz.
- Not all Solly bindings have same pattern. STH/900 vs STH2 are different.
- Mounting hardware -- are both sets (plates-to-skis, and bindings-to-plates) included?
- It'd be awesome to see these in person or independent reviews (like WildSnow / LeeLau / Blister) before placing an order for next year.

Good luck.

[climberevan]

I'm just chiming in to vouch for ericvoneast. I know him IRL & he's a top notch skier & engineer.

It snowed at Tahoe last night, so clearly Ullr approves of his project as well.

[rob stokes]

Sweet, I was hoping CAST would add a removable heel to their line up.

1)How much added weight per ski

2)how much added height

Chwers

[ericvoneast]

Thanks for the questions!
I'll answer the stack height question first, as that's easiest and seems like a popular request: The current prototypes add 3/8" (9.5mm) to the stack height in both front and rear (no shift to boot angle). I'm hoping that the production versions will be closer to 1/4" (about 6.4mm).

On boot lengths (@selle):
The adapters are currently designed so that the toe is held in the same position across all the binding styles, and that the heel neutral position is the same position. This means that you can still use your full range of binding adjustment (typically ~25mm) if you want to swap between different boots. I'd be curious to hear whether people feel that there's a need for a wider range, and it would be easy to design two sets of mounting holes into the top plates so that you can have bindings mounted forwards or back.

For example, my alpine boots are 315mm BSL and by backcountry boots are 295mm BSL. I have my adapter plates mounted so that the heel piece of my Radicals is cranked forwards on the ski (about 10mm forward of the factory neutral position), and the heel piece of my alpine bindings is slid back slightly (about 10mm behind the factory neutral position). This does mean that the boot center moves slightly between boots (about 4mm for my boots; your mileage may vary), so I've mounted the adapters such that my AT boots are ~2mm forward of neutral and my alpine boots are ~2mm rear of neutral, which works fine for me. If this doesn't seem like a good solution for you, let me know- I've got ideas for improving this, but don't know if it's something that a lot of users care about!

I've put a link to the FAQ page on the main site menu (sorry; it was hidden previously).

[ericvoneast]

More responses, and check out the FAQ page as I expand it:

Thanks to @papatroller, @robstokes, @doebedoe for the questions!

Performance @papatroller:
I haven't noticed any slop that develops in the system after hammering it at high speeds and big days (the current prototypes have about 300k vert, the previous generations had 200k vert). In the current prototypes which I machined by hand, there's about a 0.001 gap between the top plate and bottom plate when they slide together- less than a the width of a hair. In the production versions, I plan to have additional passive stabilizers which clamp the plates in place as you slide them home. You shouldn't feel any give or play.

Timeline:
I'm currently getting feedback and pre-orders so that I can figure out how many people want this- the market volume will dictate the manufacturing method, and whether it's even possible to produce them at a reasonable cost. I need you pre-orders now so that I can figure that out- then I'll start working with vendors over the winter/spring, test the next generation, and hammer out any production issues by the end of next summer. I'm also balancing this with work on my PhD...

Materials @doebedoe:
The current prototypes are made of machined aluminum (6061 T-6) for ease of manufacturing. The final material and manufacturing method will depend on the production volume, which is why I need your pre-orders! Top options are stamped stainless steel (strong, stiff, good strength/weight ratio, low fatigue concern, potential cold-working issues) and stamped sheet aluminum with a heat-treating and surface hardening step (more workable, cheaper tooling cost, potentially lighter at manufacturing thicknesses). I want to make sure that our material choice doesn't fatigue or work harden over use, which will be easier to assess once I'm working with vendors and have manufacturing prototypes that I can take out in the cold- which is why I need your pre-orders! (do I sound like a broken record yet?)

Weight @doebedoe, @robstokes:
I haven't yet spec'd out weights for each binding combination, but can speak from the prototypes that I have made (Dynafit Speed Radicals, Salomon STH, Telemark 7TM). The base plates should weigh about 3.5 oz/ski, and this won't change between bindings. The top plates should add about 2.5oz/ski for something small like the Dynafit Radicals, and 6oz/ski for something bigger like my Solly STHs or Kingpins. That's a total of about 6oz (170g)/ski for the Radicals and 9oz (260g)/ski for the Sollys. If you're a weight weenie, this means that Speed Radicals + plates still weigh less than the regular Radicals. If that still seems like a lot of weight, inserts are probably the way to go.

@doebedoe: Thanks for the catch on the STH2 pattern; I thought I had included that and have now updated the site.

@deobedoe: Both sets of hardware (plate-to-ski and binding-to-plate) are included.

I'll be trying to get these into the hands of Wildsnow/Leelau/Blister and others for reviews in the coming months.

Let me know if you're in Tahoe/Norcal, and I'd be happy to show you the plates or let you take them for a spin!

Keep the questions coming! Let me know what info I should move to the website's front page, and what it would take to get your pre-orders! Also, note that I'm not taking billing information until they ship, so if you like the idea go ahead and put your name down- you can always cancel later!

[nickwm21]

Looks like a great product.

What holds the plates in place? In your FAQ you say:

We've engineered the SwitchSki separation mechanism to be fail-safe and to be protected from accidental actuation, so that once your bindings are locked in place you can trust that they're solidly attached with metal to the binding.

Can you expand on that?

[ericvoneast]

@nickwm21: The bindings slide into a channel on the base plate, and then are locked into place by two steel springs that are built into the baseplates (one on either side). These prevent the top plates from moving fore/aft once locked into position.

The springs are integrated into the base plate, so transfer all the force directly to the rest of the baseplate. Because they're operated separately, one of the springs could be accidentally released and the binding stays locked in place. The springs are also protected from accidental release by the sides of the baseplate- no chance of accidentally hitting them with a rock or a ski edge. To release the binding, you press down on both springs at the same time and slide the binding backwards out of the base plate.

I'll try to film a detailed video showing the release mechanism and upload it later this week.

[doebedoe]

Awesome responses. Keep up with all this transparency and you'll fit in well around here.

I can imagine some people will be hesitant to pre-order when materials haven't been defined yet. Spelling out pre-order policies on main page may be more helpful.

FWIW, your pricing seems quite fair.

About to mount up a pair of sollyFit plates w/ speed rads and STH in the next few weeks. If these were an option now I would be very interested.

[abraham]

Interesting project. Not sure I understood the above post well enough. Do the bindings slide back for removal of the toe and heel? Or do the heels slide forward?

[ericvoneast]

@abraham Sorry for being unclear. Both toes and heels slide backwards, to allow the design to work with frame bindings. The locking mechanism is designed to resist the axial force of the clamps pressing against your boots (plus loading from ski flex and impacts), which can be significant for the rear unit.

[rob stokes]

Thanks for the info, great product.

If you can get them to ~6mm I'll probably be ordering some at some time in the future.

[TrueNorth]

@abraham Sorry for being unclear. Both toes and heels slide backwards, to allow the design to work with frame bindings. The locking mechanism is designed to resist the axial force of the clamps pressing against your boots (plus loading from ski flex and impacts), which can be significant for the rear unit.

My suggestion, which I hereby release into the public domain, is to have the toe slide backward and the heel forward to release. This way you're not relying on any springs or other mechanisms to keep the bindings in place while skiing so the locking mechanism can be simple and light. You would lose the tele-market (ha ha) which is miniscule anyways, and the AT frame binding market, but gain a whole lot of reliability.

[abraham]

My suggestion, which I hereby release into the public domain, is to have the toe slide backward and the heel forward to release. This way you're not relying on any springs or other mechanisms to keep the bindings in place while skiing so the locking mechanism can be simple and light. You would lose the tele-market (ha ha) which is miniscule anyways, and the AT frame binding market, but gain a whole lot of reliability.

Yeah that's kinda what I was thinking. It might be a good idea to see how many people would use this with frame bindings over alpine + tech bindings.

[TrueNorth]

Actually I'm not sure why that would preclude a frame binding version, since the rear piece that holds the frame down to the ski is separate from the toe.

[doebedoe]

Actually I'm not sure why that would preclude a frame binding version, since the rear piece that holds the frame down to the ski is separate from the toe.

Agreed.

And I think the tele market for these would be tiny but what do I know.

[nickwm21]

You could design the rear binding plate for the tele and frame bindings to slide backwards and all other plates forward and just have it denoted in the directions to flip the bottom plate around when mounting Tele or frame.

[neck beard]

Interesting. At any one time I have up to 5 pairs of tech bindings on separate skis. Sick of it. Given differences in brake widths, this would allow me to cut that number down a little.

I bought loads of inserts but never used them since they reduce ease of ski resale (where I live). People don't like inserts drilled for a specific binding (and bsl).

These would potentially not impede resale ease as much since one base plate fits many top plates, correct? But release would still depend on the buyer wanting to use this system, and this system being available to them to use.

And if you put a fucking @ sign in front of my name I swear I'll never buy any. I hate that crap

[abraham]

If you use the app the @ notifies you of a response if you haven't subscribed to the thread. This is the first time I've gotten the notice but it's semi useful

[neck beard]

oh ok then.

[Vt-Freeheel]

I notice there are 6 holes in the prototype and you only use 4. I am not so worried they would pull out with 4 screws as I am currently using Sollyfit plates with Radicals and STH bindings on several pairs of skis. My question concerns ski drilling and if the mounting holes would conflict with current drilling[say the ski was drilled for Radicals] and would someone be able to sell SwitchSki drilled skis without major hole conflict.
The Sollyfit was designed to address this issue[at least for my use] and I am wondering if you are addressing this in your design?

[NW_SKIER]

If you use the app the @ notifies you of a response if you haven't subscribed to the thread. This is the first time I've gotten the notice but it's semi useful

Kind of like a tag? Are tags back?

Also, to the OP, cool idea. Subscribed and following along.