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  1. #251
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    121
    I had a similar problem (vertical play in the pins/heel risers) and tightened the hex screw underneath the heel risers to fix it. I found this breakdown helpful and just reused the same screw holes. https://www.wildsnow.com/22236/atomi...eakdown-apart/

    Quote Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive View Post
    Thanks. Taking a look now and I can isolate the movement to the heel tower. Itís moving up and down a bit with or without the boot in the binding. One tower has a bit more play than the other. Not sure if itís no big deal or if I can pull the binding to see if I can tighten things down somehow. Iím guessing just go ski Ďem is the answer.

  2. #252
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster View Post
    I had a similar problem (vertical play in the pins/heel risers) and tightened the hex screw underneath the heel risers to fix it. I found this breakdown helpful and just reused the same screw holes. https://www.wildsnow.com/22236/atomi...eakdown-apart/
    oh, nice - great find and thanks for sharing!

  3. #253
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Renton, WA
    Posts
    422
    What kind of springs are people running? I threw in the Expert spring, but after reading anecdotes, I should probably switch to the "Mens" or even the "Womens" U-spring. 5'10", 180 lbs, 9.5 DIN on an alpine binding. The Expert spring is a pain in the ass to rotate as well, not sure if that breaks in or not.

  4. #254
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,613
    Quote Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
    What kind of springs are people running? I threw in the Expert spring, but after reading anecdotes, I should probably switch to the "Mens" or even the "Womens" U-spring. 5'10", 180 lbs, 9.5 DIN on an alpine binding. The Expert spring is a pain in the ass to rotate as well, not sure if that breaks in or not.
    Iím on the Mens spring and a little bit heavier than you. Iíve never released out of it, including in situations where I probably would have released from my Crests set at 9. Iíd be scared to run the Expert spring honestly.

  5. #255
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SW, CO
    Posts
    1,028
    I've heard it best described as;
    Women's Spring: Release Occasionally
    Mens: Release Infrequently
    Expert: Release "Never"

    I run Expert Springs in my two pairs and have never released, even when I landed waaay to front seat on a ~10 cornice drop. I may swap to the Men's for my daily touring rig, but my ski mountaineering set up is keeping the expert springs.

  6. #256
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    3,917
    I'm 170 expert spring.
    I released once, when i hit a small rock head on, not sideways.

    The heel is hard to turn, but i never do it

    Which is the nice thing about this binding

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

  7. #257
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Golden B.C.
    Posts
    463
    145lb. Din 11. Expert springs. Only release in forward over the bars falls. Hardest part with the stiff springs is getting heel in when in deep pow.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  8. #258
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    84
    I have these bindings on two sets of skis: 88 and 97 waist. Both with Men's springs. I am 6'0", 185, normally have DIN of 8 to 8.5. Expert skier, but I'm more of a finesse skier and hardly ever huck anything anymore.

    I can't recall ever releasing from these bindings. Still, I recently skied a steep, no-fall zone, and the snow was quite firm and a bit icy. I meant to lock out the toe pieces, just in case, but I forgot -- no problems.

    The heel piece is easy to rotate with the Men's springs on my set-ups, which is nice, because I have a lot of flat approaches in my ski touring.

  9. #259
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Renton, WA
    Posts
    422
    Thanks for the answers. Sounds like a swap to the Men's spring is in my near future, I'm not nearly sendy enough for the Expert.

  10. #260
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25
    Another data point - I'm 170lbs and a relatively aggressive skier, except no big airs. I've skied the men's spring for the last four years and really can't remember if Ive ever released. I ski on soft boots (Travers).

    Earlier this season, I took a pretty bad tomahawk fall and was kinda surprised they didn't release. In mid May, I took my second bad fall of the season again with no release, except this time I ruptured my ACL and had to ski out 6 miles and 5k down sans ACL.

    Summer project = switch to the women's springs.

  11. #261
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    27,266
    I'm a tech nerd so I often ask people about their U-spring binding, do they like them and how is the release yada yada ?

    The usual answer is " I don't know cuz they never release " so it sounds to me like they are not really a " safety releasable bindings "
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  12. #262
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,490
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I'm a tech nerd so I often ask people about their U-spring binding, do they like them and how is the release yada yada ?

    The usual answer is " I don't know cuz they never release " so it sounds to me like they are not really a " safety releasable bindings "
    Next big advance ... beartrap bindings ;-)

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  13. #263
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    1,535
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I'm a tech nerd so I often ask people about their U-spring binding, do they like them and how is the release yada yada ?

    The usual answer is " I don't know cuz they never release " so it sounds to me like they are not really a " safety releasable bindings "
    That is just flat out not true. I and many others in this thread have released several times out of U-springs. The issue is that its much harder to fine-tune the release characteristics of U-spring bindings, so you have to hope that the manufacturer's springs are close to your needs.

  14. #264
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    27,266
    one of us is rong cuz I'm thinking you didnt personaly talk to the same people I did

    in addition to the folks on-line who just wrote that they havent come out/ got hurt not coming out

    btw there is nothing to fine tune with a U-spring cuz its fixed

    otoh its safer than a 3 pin binding, I've broken bones telewanking so I know how this works
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #265
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    otoh its safer than a 3 pin binding
    This is flat out not true. Any free heel binding is much safer than a U spring binding. I've got thousands of days on tele with no injuries as undisputable truth. 😎

  16. #266
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    27,266
    there's an ^^ anecdote for ya

    I got 7TM's which release after a boot-top fracture but I 99% ski fixed heel bindings that fully adjust for lateral and vertical release

    cuz telemarking is stupid
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #267
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NCW
    Posts
    3,899
    How about bench testing the various springs provided by the manufacturer with your particular equipment to get a sense of how they will perform and evaluate whether the force required is within your acceptable level of risk? I admit the way they label them is not ideal, but itís my opinion that a 150# man with a <295mm boot might be better off skiing the W spring than the M or E. Fully kitted for touring Iím 100# heavier skiing a 316mm boot and have never felt the need to go from M to E.

  18. #268
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    3,917
    Quote Originally Posted by djhutch View Post
    Another data point - I'm 170lbs and a relatively aggressive skier, except no big airs. I've skied the men's spring for the last four years and really can't remember if Ive ever released. I ski on soft boots (Travers).

    Earlier this season, I took a pretty bad tomahawk fall and was kinda surprised they didn't release. In mid May, I took my second bad fall of the season again with no release, except this time I ruptured my ACL and had to ski out 6 miles and 5k down sans ACL.

    Summer project = switch to the women's springs.
    A softer spring wouldn't have prevented to acl tear.

    Bindings cannot protect which tissue, only bike breakage.

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

  19. #269
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    3,917
    Meant bone breakage

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

  20. #270
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,355

    Salomon Mtn tech &quot;Pin&quot; binding

    Im 175/6í3Ē/318mm boots on E springs. Never had them release. I have had my pair of ATK FR14ís set at 12 release a few times FWIW

  21. #271
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    1,535
    U spring bindings arenít inherently less inclined to release than any other binding, the difference is people often are using higher-release value bindings on their touring skis than they otherwise would.

  22. #272
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    27,266
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    U spring bindings aren’t inherently less inclined to release than any other binding, the difference is people often are using higher-release value bindings on their touring skis than they otherwise would.
    AKA using the rong release value becuz we want a lighter binding or sft, so wouldn't using the rong release value make it more likely to give you an injury when you didn't come out of your binding, this is pretty simple shit, ???

    My point is that if I noramly ski a 7 din-like setting with a alpine binding and the U spring isnt a 7 din-like wtf other choice is there on a binding with no adjustment ?

    The user MUST use a higher (or lower) release value add to that i get prerelease unless I can can independantly adj 1 more din for vertical release than for lateral

    And so I would rather use a fully adjustable binding cuz even if its a little heavier I can make a vertical or Rad act almost like an alpine binding

    Funky AT bindings are in fact less worse than tele but as long as you know what going on here ... giver eh
    Last edited by XXX-er; 07-04-2022 at 10:34 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #273
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,786
    Quote Originally Posted by djhutch View Post
    Another data point - I'm 170lbs and a relatively aggressive skier, except no big airs. I've skied the men's spring for the last four years and really can't remember if Ive ever released. I ski on soft boots (Travers).

    Earlier this season, I took a pretty bad tomahawk fall and was kinda surprised they didn't release. In mid May, I took my second bad fall of the season again with no release, except this time I ruptured my ACL and had to ski out 6 miles and 5k down sans ACL.

    Summer project = switch to the women's springs.
    The force required to tear your ACL in the body position most tear their ACLs is REALLY low.. I think it was roughly equiv to DIN 6 IIRC. ACL tears are just part of the gig.

  24. #274
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    4,678
    Quote Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
    What kind of springs are people running? I threw in the Expert spring, but after reading anecdotes, I should probably switch to the "Mens" or even the "Womens" U-spring. 5'10", 180 lbs, 9.5 DIN on an alpine binding. The Expert spring is a pain in the ass to rotate as well, not sure if that breaks in or not.
    One more data point - 5'8" 175 lbs. running the Expert springs, alpine DIN is 12 for hard snow skis, 11 for soft snow skis. I've released exactly once when I buried my tips, and was glad I did. I suspect the release values change a bit as the springs wear in, I know it gets easier to step in as time goes by. I seldom use the flat position, but yeah you need to put a glove on reef on it to turn it.

  25. #275
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    3,917
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    The force required to tear your ACL in the body position most tear their ACLs is REALLY low.. I think it was roughly equiv to DIN 6 IIRC. ACL tears are just part of the gig.
    I thought was more like din 1

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

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