Anyone have anything they'd like to rant about?

[XXX-er]

well i like thigh pockets cuz I can always put light shit that doesnt rattle around like gloves or a buff

but they all need to up their pocket game

[HankScorpio]

I've had 2 Hope Evo Pro hubs fail on me in the last 2 seasons. Just snapped a freehub body on one over the weekend.

I've been using Hope hubs for many years without issue so this is a new thing.

Might be time to move to team DT Swiss 350.

[toast2266]

East or bust's post in the experts thread reminded me of this:

Counting suspension setting clicks from closed is dumb. Everyone I've ever met starts with their suspension open-ish and then gradually adds clicks of compression until things feel good. So it makes sense to count clicks from open.

I'm aware of the technical reasons for counting from closed, and I don't care. Clicks should be counted from open.

[John_B]

I always struggle with this. Open is meaning twisted as far towards the minus sign as possible?

[Sylvan]

Closed is full righty tighty.

Just to confuse things further, how bout compression, clicks from open, and rebound, clicks from closed. This should at least be how fatties like me count clicks, unless I get a rebound tune, then I guess I'll do whatever I want and be a dick about it.

[joetron]

East or bust's post in the experts thread reminded me of this:

Counting suspension setting clicks from closed is dumb. Everyone I've ever met starts with their suspension open-ish and then gradually adds clicks of compression until things feel good. So it makes sense to count clicks from open.

I'm aware of the technical reasons for counting from closed, and I don't care. Clicks should be counted from open.

I agree.
I generally just say “from open” or “from closed”; and LSR is the only one near closed, but if it’s not indicated, I assume from closed of aim talking to somebody.
But god help anyone who actually gives a shit how many clicks the suspension on my bike has. “These are pretty much all the way this way, and then this one is pretty much buried in this direction.”

For those wondering, from what I understand, it’s because closed is closed. Minimal to nothing moving oil-wise. Where open could be anything - depending on the number of clicks, shims etc.



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[J. Barron DeJong]

For those wondering, from what I understand, it’s because closed is closed. Minimal to nothing moving oil-wise. Where open could be anything - depending on the number of clicks, shims etc.



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I believe it’s because many damper designs didn’t (maybe some still don’t) have a well defined number of clicks toward the open end of the range, so if you start there you may not be starting from the same place from one shock to the next.

For example, on one damper you may be able to count 20 clicks from fully closed to fully open, but another build of the same damper you may only be able to count 18 clicks. The fully closed positions should act the same between the two, but if you counted from the last fully open clicks you’d be in different spots.

[jamal]

Yeah and there may or may not even be a defined "full open" Like for example in some damper design you might be unscrewing a needle from a seat and at some point it's open enough where adjustments aren't actually doing anything. But from the full stiff/closed side, they always are and are consistent (hopefully).

So anyway it's very standard in the suspension world across all sorts of applications to start from closed/full stiff and has been for a long time. All the rockshox, fox, whatever guides work that way.

[toast2266]

Yeah and there may or may not even be a defined "full open" Like for example in some damper design you might be unscrewing a needle from a seat and at some point it's open enough where adjustments aren't actually doing anything. But from the full stiff/closed side, they always are and are consistent (hopefully).

So anyway it's very standard in the suspension world across all sorts of applications to start from closed/full stiff and has been for a long time. All the rockshox, fox, whatever guides work that way.

Yeah, traditionally it was because it's a valve, and closed is closed, whereas open is different from damper to damper.

But these days, closed isn't actually closed, and open is still ambiguous. And maybe the adjustment is actually closing a needle valve, or maybe you're just adding preload to some spring in there. Depends on the damper.

Anyways, there are plenty of technical and historic reasons why clicks are counted from closed. But as someone who sets up suspension in the present and isn't overly concerned about historical precedent, clicks should be counted from open. It makes way more sense for the end user.

To drive the point home, a Fox DHX has numbers (1 through 10) printed on the compression dial. But they're counting clicks from closed. So setting the dial at 10 means you have the least damping, and setting it at 1 means you have the most. That's dumb, and entirely counterintuitive for 99% of the population.

[Andeh]

I have to agree, especially on suspension systems that have like 20 fucking clicks. When I've gotten stuff from EXT, even they tell me their suggestions in "from open."

[jm2e]

The toast method is most logical.
You’re not adding compression, you’re adding compression damping.
You’re not adding rebound, you’re adding rebound damping.
AKA, how much do you want to slow the cycle.


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[singlesline]

I hate when companies make small tweaks to good products for no reason (besides "updating" the design).

Have a pair of gloves that I like...ordered another pair a year or two later. Inexplicably the new pair has the wrist Velcro close from the opposite direction.

The rest of the glove still fits and feels about the same but the velcro closure on the new pair is a little harder to put on/adjust and is more likely to snag on things (opening now faces forwards when you are riding)

[mtnjam]

Maybe it's just me, but have other trail users besides us cyclists become more bold and refuse to yield right of way on trails? I've noticed more and more trail runners (yes, those people specifically) becoming bolder and bolder and not yielding to uphill travel despite me staying on my line. I really don't care if you bump my handlebars with your runners high and not yield right of way, but don't be a dick about it.

[Canada1]

Don’t pedestrians always have the right of way? That is what I’ve always been told.

[rideit]

“Right of way” has always just been an unenforceable etiquette guideline, AFAIK.
Basically, people can yell and squawk, but I don’t think there are any ‘laws’.
I could be wrong, though, I often am.

[grskier]

Don’t pedestrians always have the right of way? That is what I’ve always been told.

Hikers/runners/etc have right of way no matter the direction of travel. Bikes yield to all.

Bikes amongst themselves yield to uphill traveler.

Now, the fun part comes when you have that little sprint uphill on the generally downhill or vice vs.

[grskier]

“Right of way” has always just been an unenforceable etiquette guideline, AFAIK.
Basically, people can yell and squawk, but I don’t think there are any ‘laws’.
I could be wrong, though, I often am.

I don't think we have anything like that statutorily. I know we tried a speed limit on a multiuse path before... Only thing I think our rangers ticket really is dog leash laws.

[rideit]

I like to go by “Which way would water generally run on the overall length of this trail?”

[toast2266]

I like to go by “Which way would water generally run on the overall length of this trail?”

I dunno. I think anyone riding straight down the fall line has right of way, purely because they can't stop.

[Roxtar]

Only thing I think our rangers ticket really is dog leash laws.

I'd pay real $ to see an off-leash dog owner get ticketed just once out here. My wife has gotten attacked once and we've been charged often by loose dogs.

[Roxtar]

The whole yield triangle needs an update.
It was created back in the day when we were desperate for access and we basically said we'll yield to everyone, just please let us in the sandbox.
It's absolutely silly that riders are supposed to dismount instead of hikers/walkers/runners simply taking one step sideways.

[simple]

Lol entitled mountain bikers....

Meanwhile we are out there working overtime to try to get other trail users used to pleasant encounters with mountain bikers. It's stupid to try to overcome the actions of assholes but gotta stay positive and overly friendly or I become just like those Stravabros and headphone wearing douches

[NuMexJoe]

I've had 2 Hope Evo Pro hubs fail on me in the last 2 seasons. Just snapped a freehub body on one over the weekend.

I've been using Hope hubs for many years without issue so this is a new thing.

Might be time to move to team DT Swiss 350.

I'm with you. I had one Pro2 hubshell split open, and another I spun the ratchet inside the hubshell. Hadleys or DT Swiss for me now, although I'll admit that the Pro4 set that came on a bike I bought used have been solid thus far.

[NuMexJoe]

The whole yield triangle needs an update.
It was created back in the day when we were desperate for access and we basically said we'll yield to everyone, just please let us in the sandbox.
It's absolutely silly that riders are supposed to dismount instead of hikers/walkers/runners simply taking one step sideways.

I disagree. The spectrum of bipedal trail users is far broader in body size and age than that of bikers, and some can't so easily step off the trail out of my way, or are intimidated by a bike at speed. What's the harm in yielding? In comparison to most places, we have near zero on-trail user conflicts here, and I'd rather keep it that way. But then again, I don't use Strava.

[toast2266]

The whole yield triangle needs an update.
It was created back in the day when we were desperate for access and we basically said we'll yield to everyone, just please let us in the sandbox.
It's absolutely silly that riders are supposed to dismount instead of hikers/walkers/runners simply taking one step sideways.

I agree.

Although the solution to user conflict isn't messing with the yield triangle, it's building directional trails and separating uses. No amount of common sense is going to solve use conflicts on trails that are overloaded with a wide variety of different uses. Putting everyone on every trail just means no one's happy.