Page 59 of 75 FirstFirst ... 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 ... LastLast
Results 1,451 to 1,475 of 1867
  1. #1451
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Yes, I was mountain biking downhill in a mountainous forest on technical singletrack. Strangely, I could not see as far as I could on flat, paved fireroads through meadows.

    ETA: this is the rant thread dammit! I'm ranting!! Take your officious rule-following to another thread dammit - I'm here to vent!!!!
    But you're in the wrong.


  2. #1452
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    But you're in the wrong.

    Yeah, I usually am lol.

    But just cause it's a "rule," doesn't mean it makes any sense or is right. Nor does the rule give the uphill rider license to be a close-minded, bellicose dickface. Use your damn brain, be respectful, and remember most people are out riding bikes to have a good time, not have their mellow harshed or be forced off the trail because you have a high-and-mighty "UPHILL RIDERS ALWAYS HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY." Here's my basic thought process:

    Momentum Wins: Scrap the Downhill Rider Yields to Uphill Rider Rule

    Dear Lennard,
    I hate the IMBA trail rule to yield to uphill riders. I think there would be fewer problems on the trail if uphill riders yielded to downhill riders.
    What do you think?
    Frank

    Dear Frank,
    I agree. Most of IMBA rule number four is reasonable, but that sentence is not. In fact, I find it a bit irritating that it is never questioned and that people can become self-righteous about enforcing such a senseless rule. What I find particularly irritating is when I myself become self-righteous about it and belittle somebody for not knowing the rule. While I personally would rather not have to stop my uphill progress because somebody is coming down, it makes way more sense for me as the uphill rider to stop than the rider coming down, and I’ll tell you why.

    Ever notice how people who are new to mountain biking and don’t know this cardinal rule tend to stop when they’re going uphill and somebody else is coming down toward them? That’s because it makes sense to do it that way.

    Here are some reasons why:
    1. The rider coming down has way more momentum and requires much more braking to stop than the rider going up.
    2. The downhill rider may not be able to stop, if he or she is coming around a corner fast and doesn’t expect come upon a rider there. The uphill rider can essentially always stop easily, though.
    3. If the rider going up doesn’t get out of the way, both riders could be seriously hurt by the downhill rider’s momentum being transferred to the uphill rider.
    4. Stopping the downhill rider’s bike is much more damaging to the trail than stopping the uphill rider’s bike.
    5. The uphill rider is forewarned of the coming of the downhill rider, but the reverse is not true. The downhill rider’s bike is making a lot of noise, and the uphill rider’s bike is not. What little noise the uphill rider is making cannot be heard by the downhill rider over the racket of his bouncing bike.
    6. The downhill rider will get by a lot faster and clear the trail sooner than the other uphill rider would.
    7. A critical skill in mountain biking is being able to start up on a steep pitch. Reversing the IMBA rule would give riders more opportunity to practice this essential skill.

    We tend to justify this nonsensical rule with the argument that it is easier for the rider going down to get going again than it is for the rider going up. While that is certainly true, I’m cynical enough to believe that it probably was never thought out in this way when it was established, but rather was inherited from other rules of human activity. I think that the downhill-rider-yields rule might have originated from rules for horse-drawn (and ox-drawn) wagons; it would be very difficult to restart a fully-loaded oxcart, carriage or Conestoga wagon on an uphill. On the other hand, I don’t know how the downhill cart would back up, whereas it seems that the uphill one could do so more easily. It reminds me of a theory for why riders usually dismount on the left side of the bike and why the derailleurs are on the right side. I think it’s because horses are usually mounted and dismounted on the left, and that became customary because soldiers (presumably right-handed) wore their sword on the left and didn’t want it to get tangled up with the horse when mounting.

    In the California Driver Handbook – Laws and Rules of the Road, it says:
    “On mountain roads, when two vehicles meet on a steep road where neither vehicle can pass, the vehicle facing downhill must yield the right-of-way, by backing up until the vehicle going uphill can pass. The vehicle facing downhill has the greater amount of control when backing up the hill.”

    That makes sense to me, but that argument doesn’t apply to bikes.

    I tend to begrudgingly adhere to this senseless downhill-yields rule, since it’s useful for riders to have some sort of understanding about what the other one will do, even if it’s misguided. However, a buddy of mine says, “When I’m coming down, they’d better get out of the way. The only time I would yield is if the guy coming up is cleaning something super hard, and by that I mean something that is really hard to clean (i.e., not just something that a good rider can clean relatively frequently).”

    He says that he can even predict if a guy is the type to not get out of the way based on what bike he is riding and what he is wearing. That rider holding his ground may be in the right based on the current rule, but he could end up dead right.

    Another buddy of mine, after stating the it’s-easier-for-the-downhill-rider-to-get-going-again argument for the existing rule, says he approaches it with pragmatism. “If a guy is flying down toward me all padded up like a football player,” he says, “you bet I’m going to get out of the way!”

    From Velo News: https://www.velonews.com/2011/11/new...er-rule_252089
    [back to your regularly scheduled gear ratio rants...]
    Last edited by meter-man; 07-24-2019 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Edited to clarify quoting article

  3. #1453
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    8,769
    ^^^ Amen.

  4. #1454
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Yeah, I usually am lol.

    But just cause it's a "rule," doesn't mean it makes any sense or is right.
    It's a commonly accepted rule. There's no legality to it, AFAIK. And you're more than welcome to *change* it... but I'd say, good luck on that one.

    Nor does the rule give the uphill rider license to be a close-minded, bellicose dickface.
    Yup. The only thing worse than bellicose dickface uphill rider is a close-minded, bellicose dickface DH rider - mainly due to the momentum thing.

    And from the sounds of it, your buddy might fall into this latter group.

  5. #1455
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
    Posts
    6,520
    I agree with all 7 points.

    But context is everything.

    My one and only rule out there is that I try not to be a dick.

  6. #1456
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    10,888
    Yes, yielding to a downhill rider if you are able to hear/see them coming and if you have room to move over is the courteous thing to do. But, that is several "ifs". Changing the "rule" to be that downhill riders have the ROW seems likely to result in more collisions. Admittedly, I'm a bit gun shy after running into a guy recently. No injuries or damage thankfully due to him being on a bike and some quick reflexes on my part, but could have been much worse, especially if it was a horse or hiker.

    Bottom line, if you are already going slow enough to be able to "stop or ride very slowly past hikers saying smiley love-things" and an uphill rider decides to take a hard stance on his ROW and you have to stop for him, your mellow was not harshed very hard. Nothing harshes your mellow like a collision, trust me.

  7. #1457
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    8,769
    The answer is more directional trails.

  8. #1458
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    The answer is more directional trails.
    It's difficult to argue with logic such as this.

  9. #1459
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Yes, yielding to a downhill rider if you are able to hear/see them coming and if you have room to move over is the courteous thing to do. But, that is several "ifs". Changing the "rule" to be that downhill riders have the ROW seems likely to result in more collisions. Admittedly, I'm a bit gun shy after running into a guy recently. No injuries or damage thankfully due to him being on a bike and some quick reflexes on my part, but could have been much worse, especially if it was a horse or hiker.

    Bottom line, if you are already going slow enough to be able to "stop or ride very slowly past hikers saying smiley love-things" and an uphill rider decides to take a hard stance on his ROW and you have to stop for him, your mellow was not harshed very hard. Nothing harshes your mellow like a collision, trust me.
    This. I learned *long* ago that high speed and blind corners are bad combos. Fortunately, the lesson was fairly benign, but I still remember it like it was yesterday, as opposed to 25 years ago.

    I only let 'er rip on good sight lines any more. And if I'm approaching *any* other trail user, I slow to walking speed and we sort things out. If I'm heading DH and an oncoming trail user doesn't voluntarily yield, I do so with a smile and a "Have a good hike/bike/ride."

    Not being a dick is actually incredibly easy if you don't go into the whole recreation-thing with a sense of entitlement...

  10. #1460
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
    Posts
    25,570
    Let Your Strava Be Your Guide
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  11. #1461
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    The answer is more directional trails.
    If I were king, all trails would be one way.

  12. #1462
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
    Posts
    25,570
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    If I were king, all trails would be one way.
    Except at night.
    Then anything goes.
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  13. #1463
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    1,239
    Went to buy a used bike yesterday and there is electrical tape wrapped around the frame. Remove it and there is s big hole punched in the carbon fiber. Why can’t people just be honest? You want me to send my kid out to race on a broken frame.

  14. #1464
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by Canada1 View Post
    Went to buy a used bike yesterday and there is electrical tape wrapped around the frame. Remove it and there is s big hole punched in the carbon fiber. Why canít people just be honest? You want me to send my kid out to race on a broken frame.
    Should have used Gorilla tape. That shit is stronger than the original carbon material...


  15. #1465
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In a parallel universe
    Posts
    4,483
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    The answer is more directional trails.
    Yes/FTW

    Reserving this space for a future rant regarding that guy/gal that still insists on riding up, the down trail (also, possibly on an Ebike).

  16. #1466
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virgina (It's humid here)
    Posts
    4,576
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Not being a dick is actually incredibly easy if you don't go into the whole recreation-thing with a sense of entitlement...
    Amazing how hard this concept is for some folks.



    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it tubeless, I will. I got spare time.

  17. #1467
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    428
    Re the yield discussion - this is the forum that thinks mtbr debates are wack?!

  18. #1468
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Missoula
    Posts
    1,348
    I can't see giving downhill riders row turning out well. You'd have way to many people riding with a "fuck you get out the way" attitude. And there probably already are too many of those.

    It's not usually that hard to find a bikes only or directional trail, or a race, or a bike park where you can ride as fast as you want. Or even times and places on multi-use trails where you're a lot less likely to encounter other people.

  19. #1469
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Puget Oceania
    Posts
    328
    Being a single speeder I do get a bit bent out of shape by people who don't even try to move or slow down when I'm coming up a hill. But then I try to remember there are a shit-ton of fat ass riders who just stare at their front tire and they aren't really capable of much beyond cunting up everything in their general vicinity, so then I feel better.
    Chronic Complainer Experiencing Ikon Cognitive Dissonance Since 2018

  20. #1470
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Missoula
    Posts
    1,348
    And if you're constantly getting worked up and angry about other people on trails, maybe you're the problem. Fucking chill out and try to enjoy yourself, isn't that the whole point? It's like that saying about meeting an asshole in the morning vs running into them all day.


    Not referring to anyone in particular here or even bikers btw.

  21. #1471
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    1,151
    Quote Originally Posted by jamal View Post
    And if you're constantly getting worked up and angry about other people on trails, maybe you're the problem. Fucking chill out and try to enjoy yourself, isn't that the whole point? It's like that saying about meeting an asshole in the morning vs running into them all day.


    Not referring to anyone in particular here or even bikers btw.
    I mean, it's a fair point. If you are on dirt with two functioning wheels and two functioning legs, what the fuck would you possibly have to be pissy about?

  22. #1472
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5,512
    Quote Originally Posted by beece View Post
    I mean, it's a fair point. If you are on dirt with two functioning wheels and two functioning legs, what the fuck would you possibly have to be pissy about?
    Same as anywhere: rude people.

  23. #1473
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    4,211
    Has anyone ranted yet about fucking DH morons that you yield for and they *still* go off trail into the weeds to pass you? That's irritating as SHIT.

  24. #1474
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
    Posts
    6,520
    aka bike gapers.

  25. #1475
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    in your second home, doing heroin
    Posts
    14,589
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Has anyone ranted yet about fucking DH morons that you yield for and they *still* go off trail into the weeds to pass you? That's irritating as SHIT.
    I'm being nice by not buzzing you.


    I mean.......this person in question is probably being nice by not buzzing you........in this theoretical discussion........that we're having.

    About theory.




    In all seriousness though, why is that irritating? No really. Why do you care? Huh? Huh?

    See now I'm actually being annoying. Totally different.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •