Anyone have anything they'd like to rant about?

[nickwm21]

It’s not the weight savings. It was one last thing to buy, manage, QC, etc… at the expense of loosing a handful of frame only sales….


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[g_man80]

It’s not the weight savings. It was one last thing to buy, manage, QC, etc… at the expense of loosing a handful of frame only sales….


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Exactly! That’s why SC saying it’s for the weight savings is laughable.

[ASmileyFace]

Weight is an easy excuse, but I bet it is a combo of weight and cost savings in manufacturing.

All this bitching about cable routing seems silly when both Specialized (in alloy) and Santa Cruz are offering frame only options that allow for cable routing. How many Bronson C frame only sales do you think SC is going to make? 15? 50? 100? All of that is negligible in the grand scheme of their business... even so it is nice to see they at least listened to the complainers.

[Andeh]

I have one bike that came all axs. The shifting adjustment annoys me, but I'll get used to it. Just me being old and grumpy not being able to micro adjust on the fly...and the battery. But I will say the axs dropper is the balz. I dig that. It just works. And man I was probably the biggest complainer of the reverb several years ago.

What do you mean by not being able to micro adjust on the fly? It's pretty easy to do, press and hold the little round AXS button on the controller, toggle up or down on the controller to change the micro. If it's paired with a newer Garmin, it'll even bring up a popup screen that tells you exactly which micro value you went to on the range of 1-14, so you can keep it straight which way you went.

[toast2266]

And the new Hightower. And I think the new Epic. But yeah, SC and Spesh

How much weight does one internal tube weigh? There’s still two tubes there for dropper and brake!
If they really wanted to save weight, they would ditch the storage compartment. I’m yelling at clouds. We know they only did it because SRAM and marketing.

My understanding is that internal tubing in carbon frames actually poses a bit of an engineering challenge. I think it's hard to mold tubes into carbon while also keeping the frame strong. This is according to brands other than SC / spec.

My wife's stumpy evo has internal tubes, but they're not carbon - it's just a plastic sleeve that runs through the frame and is glued into the ports in the frame. Seems like a pretty easy / cheap / light option that works well.

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[t.odd]

also way easier from an assembly perspective and less parts (cables, housing, end caps).

[XXX-er]

IME no complaints owning a SC with VPP except trying to change that dropper cable on my bullit, the second time I figured out the outer and inner cable with end WILL fit thru the hole in the frame going at it from the battery side, I had done some major wanking around the first time

[jackstraw]

What do you mean by not being able to micro adjust on the fly? It's pretty easy to do, press and hold the little round AXS button on the controller, toggle up or down on the controller to change the micro. If it's paired with a newer Garmin, it'll even bring up a popup screen that tells you exactly which micro value you went to on the range of 1-14, so you can keep it straight which way you went.

You can do that pedaling? I've never tried. Admittedly, I haven't played with this axs stuff enough.

[toast2266]

You can do that pedaling? I've never tried. Admittedly, I haven't played with this axs stuff enough.

Yeah, works fine while pedaling. Not as easy as fiddling with a barrel adjuster, but workable.

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[Andeh]

You can do that pedaling? I've never tried. Admittedly, I haven't played with this axs stuff enough.

Yep, no problem on fire roads, fine on smooth singletrack, probably a bad idea on techy climbs. I've been messing with it a bit recently because I swapped cassettes between my ebike & normal bike to spread the wear out, and they're just a *tiny* bit different, so had to move the microadjust a click or 2 inboard.

[Falcon3]

Yep, no problem on fire roads, fine on smooth singletrack, probably a bad idea on techy climbs. I've been messing with it a bit recently because I swapped cassettes between my ebike & normal bike to spread the wear out, and they're just a *tiny* bit different, so had to move the microadjust a click or 2 inboard.

Wild. I set my new $40 Deore derailleur and $20 Deore shifter and turn the barrel adjuster two clicks after about 10 miles. Then I never touch it again for 1000+

[toast2266]

Wild. I set my new $40 Deore derailleur and $20 Deore shifter and turn the barrel adjuster two clicks after about 10 miles. Then I never touch it again for 1000+

I've got a transmission drivetrain on the new bike I've been riding. It shifts nice under load, and it looks clean without cables. But by every other metric, it kinda sucks. It's heavy, it's expensive, it shifts really slowly, it's fidgety to set up and if it needs tweaking, it's hard to do on the trail. Not to mention it needs to be charged, which is annoying.

Of all the bike related things I have complained about over the years, shift quality isn't really one of them. All this new electronic crap solves a problem that doesn't exist.

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[jackstraw]

Well shit, I'll have to try it out. Thanks.

And yeah, I would not mind going back to cables, I just don't see it happening moving forward. The Bronson which is my primary bike is all cables and the Blur is all axs.

[HankScorpio]

Wild. I set my new $40 Deore derailleur and $20 Deore shifter and turn the barrel adjuster two clicks after about 10 miles. Then I never touch it again for 1000+

Preach. I've got Shimano 12 speed set ups on my hardtail and full suspensions and they just work everytime. After the initial set up, there's no need to touch anything. No batteries or apps or cell phone needed.

You'll never convince me to bother with AXS.

[gretch6364]

Love my t-type AXS. It’s absolutely wonderful.

That said, I don’t like the electronic droppers…go figure.

The new Fox Neo Live Valve looks pretty sweet and like it could have a big effect on kinematics and bike design in the future.

I could get along with two batteries just fine. More then that feels like a bit much


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[jackstraw]

You'll never convince me to bother with AXS.

I said the same thing. Then I'm in the market for a new ride and this "ideal" bike shows up at 35% off and here I am

[XXX-er]

I said the same thing. Then I'm in the market for a new ride and this "ideal" bike shows up at 35% off and here I am

Thats how its always gone for me ^^ I buy the bike as the product guy spec'ed it and i don't change much if anything

[jm2e]

Of all the bike related things I have complained about over the years, shift quality isn't really one of them. All this new electronic crap solves a problem that doesn't exist.

This.
Adding 10%-20% to the cost of a bike to get smoother shifting doesn’t work for me. But I’m also going through 2-4 RDs a year and might just quit biking if each new mech cost >$500



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[jono]

I've got a transmission drivetrain on the new bike I've been riding. It shifts nice under load, and it looks clean without cables. But by every other metric, it kinda sucks. It's heavy, it's expensive, it shifts really slowly...

Any chance you can define "really slowly?" I haven't ridden that yet and I'm assuming it waits for ramps that are, what, 120 degrees apart? Plus another ~120 to rotate that point to the top? Obviously ratio dependant from there, but I'm really curious where delay becomes noticable.

[Eluder]

I've got a transmission drivetrain on the new bike I've been riding. It shifts nice under load, and it looks clean without cables. But by every other metric, it kinda sucks. It's heavy, it's expensive, it shifts really slowly, it's fidgety to set up and if it needs tweaking, it's hard to do on the trail. Not to mention it needs to be charged, which is annoying.

Of all the bike related things I have complained about over the years, shift quality isn't really one of them. All this new electronic crap solves a problem that doesn't exist.

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Fidgety to set up? I would say it's just different.

It does suck you can't adjust the shifting on the go like you can with a barrel. In theory, it should need that less, though.

It is slower shifting, but I don't really notice it in practice, not to the point that it affects my ride.

My thumb certainly likes hitting the button instead of pushing a shifter... getting older sucks.

[toast2266]

It is slower shifting, but I don't really notice it in practice, not to the point that it affects my ride.

I've had a few situations where I needed to grab 2-3 gears really quickly in order to get speed for a jump. On every other drivetrain, that's a non-issue. With transmission, by the time the thing gets around to shifting, I'm at the jump and not going fast enough.

And I kinda hate the shifter pod / buttons. Somehow, despite the fact that they can put the buttons literally anywhere, sram has still managed to make 3 different shifters all feel weirdly un-ergonomic. I also hate that there's no tactile feedback of when I hit my easiest gear.

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[toast2266]

Any chance you can define "really slowly?" I haven't ridden that yet and I'm assuming it waits for ramps that are, what, 120 degrees apart? Plus another ~120 to rotate that point to the top? Obviously ratio dependant from there, but I'm really curious where delay becomes noticable.

I'm not sure how many degrees apart it is, but it will only shift when the chain is aligned with the ramps on the cassette. For a single shift, this is essentially a non-issue. But if you're trying to hammer through a few gears quickly, it's noticeably slow. If you thumb the button 3 times, it'll shift, wait for the next ramp, shift, wait for the next ramp, and then do the final shift. Whereas a mechanical drivetrain would just kinda chunk it's way through the whole shift at once, which is less smooth but much faster.


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[jackstraw]

^thats interesting. Didn't realize the tranny did that. One good thing about axs (non tranny) is being able to speed shift thru the gears. I forget their term for it, but it does fly (sometimes too many or too fast until you get used to it) thru the cassette.

[jono]

I'm not sure how many degrees apart it is, but it will only shift when the chain is aligned with the ramps on the cassette. For a single shift, this is essentially a non-issue. But if you're trying to hammer through a few gears quickly, it's noticeably slow. If you thumb the button 3 times, it'll shift, wait for the next ramp, shift, wait for the next ramp, and then do the final shift. Whereas a mechanical drivetrain would just kinda chunk it's way through the whole shift at once, which is less smooth but much faster.

Thanks, that helps a lot. Does "essentially a non-issue" mean you don't notice the delay between 2nd and 1st, or just not very often? Never to the point of being a problem, I assume?

[gretch6364]

Thanks, that helps a lot. Does "essentially a non-issue" mean you don't notice the delay between 2nd and 1st, or just not very often? Never to the point of being a problem, I assume?

You obviously asked toast, and I had not really thought about the issue he mentioned with jumps. I am not typically changing gears when in a jump line, but could see how what he is saying could be an issue.

I don't notice the slower shifting because you don't have to soft pedal with the transmission. The harder you pedal through the shifts, the better it seems to shift. So I just rapid fire the button and keep pedaling. After pressing the buttons, I don't think about the shift at all and my brain focuses on the next part of the trail.

My favorite part is how quickly I can press the shift buttons without changing my grip or wrist position. When I made the switch, it changed when and how I change gears. I now purposely shift later coming into inclines, allowing me to get an extra pedal or two in the harder gear and keep more momentum.

You can then break the incline down into more sections....so instead of dropping three gears anticipating a climb...drop a gear, pedal, another, pedal and then my final gear when my momentum is gone and I am settling into the climb.

To what toast is saying....I guess in thinking more about it...transmission definitely is better when you want to go up the cassette for climbs versus coming down to get into a harder gear. That would be the trade-off when it comes to shifting speed. That said...it seems easier for derailers to move the chain down the cassette to smaller gears versus stretching for bigger gears.