Anyone have anything they'd like to rant about?

[Dantheman]

As an avid mountain biker (and one whose livelihood depends on it), I'm OK with not being allowed to ride my bike in designated Wilderness areas. My only issue is when new Wilderness areas are designated that result in the loss of established MTB access.

I'd be just fine if this only applied to Wilderness designated after, say, 2000. I hate it so much that I have to oppose just about any new Wilderness designation.

[Bunion 2020]

That lop-ed is the tip of a really big iceberg. There are about 5 Wilderness groups here all advocating for a lot of the very sames things and battling each other tooth and nail. Seems to be about both Wilderness philosophy and dare I say it, Money.

[beaterdit]

My rant: I want to get better at not being a sucker for marketing bullshit. When I built up my Heckler SL this winter, I put on one of those bougie 5Dev titanium chainrings because of all their claims about how it would have the durability of steel with the weight of aluminum. That's fucking bullshit. 600 miles later, it creaks like a honeymoon bed because the teeth are worn down already. I took it off and put on a proper steel SRAM one.

Thanks for guinea pigging that. Been tempted by Ti rings just for that reason. Didn’t like the aesthetics of the 5Dev per se but if Wolf Tooth had offered one in the right specI would have pulled the trigger.

[jono]

I'd be just fine if this only applied to Wilderness designated after, say, 2000. I hate it so much that I have to oppose just about any new Wilderness designation.

Getting a bill out of committee and adding amendments would open up great possibilities. The Act could have the NRA language added to ban commercial activities that interfere with the recreational and conservation uses. The agencies could be allowed to stay with current policies until the next travel plan. Or review could be timed based on when an area was designated: those before 1983 deserve a review (they predated the USFS change), but maybe those between, say, 1983 and 1999 are left to the agency discretion as to reviewing them at all for another 20 years.

Lots of ways to fine tune it--if it ever leaves committee. And there are significant ways the Act could be strengthened thanks to a broader base of support. They probably couldn't have gotten it passed originally without all the commercial exemptions, which could be re-examined now.

We shouldn't have to continually fight underwater mines in a W Area and watershed. But we do, because the Act is weakened by this BS fight between recreational activities. In 2024, do we still wonder why mining companies support Wilderness designations? Not out of a desire to trim profits. Shirley, it's just coincidental that the money goes to the virtue signaling "advocates" that keep the inter-recreation fight top of mind so people will ignore the commercial threats.

[g_man80]

New Magura Storm HC rotor came in a zip lock bag and was quite a bit out of true. Not that a cardboard box would protect it much, but still, some decent packaging would be nice. Didn’t take long to straighten it out.

[toast2266]

Actual wilderness is one thing. But there's a ton of recommended wilderness that region 1 of the forest service treats as actual wilderness in terms of recreation (meaning bikes aren't allowed). A lot of that land doesn't really meet the criteria for wildness, and it definitely hasn't gotten the congressional stamp of approval. But wilderness groups have discovered that they can get their own private hiking zones by buttering up the local forest service districts and getting random chunks of forest designated as recommended wilderness in a forest plan. So they shut out bikes (and snowmobiles, dirt bikes, game carts, etc.) that have used the area for years without any of the procedural hurdles that come with actual wilderness.

It's a bunch of bullshit.

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[Phall]

Fuck Mike Lee, I can only see this as a red herring to slacken wilderness designations to improve some extractive industries and is probably running this in the name of government overreach. Wilderness with a capital W isn’t designated to specifically benefit recreation but to provide areas of little impact as refuge and to be (relatively) undisturbed. If it comes to me being able to go into a wilderness area or them being fully closed to access I’m leaning to fully closed to access for the benefit they provide wildlife and ecosystems.


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[jono]

If it comes to allowing mining and all the road building and pollution that entails or allowing more private, human powered recreation I'm leaning toward more recreation and less mining.

By way of avoiding red herrings I'm sure we're both musing about hypotheticals that no one is proposing. But they really should be proposed, both of them. And the where and how should be left to people with knowledge of the specific ecosystem, not a blanket that covers all Wilderness.

[evdog]

Actual wilderness is one thing. But there's a ton of recommended wilderness that region 1 of the forest service treats as actual wilderness in terms of recreation (meaning bikes aren't allowed). A lot of that land doesn't really meet the criteria for wildness, and it definitely hasn't gotten the congressional stamp of approval. But wilderness groups have discovered that they can get their own private hiking zones by buttering up the local forest service districts and getting random chunks of forest designated as recommended wilderness in a forest plan. So they shut out bikes (and snowmobiles, dirt bikes, game carts, etc.) that have used the area for years without any of the procedural hurdles that come with actual wilderness.

It's a bunch of bullshit.

^ This. And don't forget the WSAs.

Much of the most pristine wilderness-worthy landscapes were made Wilderness decades ago. I am fine with not biking in those provided we don't keep losing more trails to new Wilderness designations. The terrain in much of these original Wilderness areas isn't very bike friendly anyways.

But we keep losing more trails. And unfortunately some of those borderline recommended wilderness areas become real W even though these aren't the highest level of pristine or untouched. They are just big swaths of "roadless" land that people convinced a politician to write a bill for. San Mateo Canyon Wilderness between Orange County, Riverside County and Camp Pendleton is older but a good example. It is mostly old ranch land and chaparral, with much of the trail network made up of old ranch roads that became overgrown. Lots of old ranch infrastructure like fences, water troughs and ponds. And a couple big equestrian communities cherry stemmed inside the wilderness boundary. I'll give you one guess who petitioned to have this Wilderness created so they could get their own private playground. Look at the map, it is pretty obvious.

https://www.trailforks.com/trails/ma...yers=landowner

I'm all for protecting these areas but there are other designations that can protect them without kicking off one or more of the major user groups. Instead we have to fight to keep our trail access, and as someone else said when these trails don't go to typical hiker destinations they just become dis-used and overgrown. We have lost a ton of legacy trails that are now locked in Wilderness that nobody uses.

[joetron]

Surrons.
Fuck. These. Things.
Are they toys?
Are they transportation?
They’re not e-bikes. They’re not bikes.
Should they have plates? Kids are riding them on streets.
They’re also getting ridden through parks, on trails and multi-use paths.
They fucking suck and parents who buy them for their kids to rally around town fucking suck.



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[climberevan]

Surrons.
s

The Surron folks should be rounded up along with the side by side drivers. Send both groups to a reeducation camp.

[nickwm21]

Any parent that buys their kid one is a fucking idiot. Full stop.

Think of all the stupid shit I did as a teen on 20” wheels and a coaster brake.

…Then add 5000watts…


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[Canada1]

Kid buys bike using his shop discount. Starts working an internship in the city right after delivery. Bike has creak, turns out to be broken part in integrated headset. Takes it to a shop in the city for warranty. They call him after two weeks and say he owes them labor to redo all of the brake cables. He says no, thats on " "(Bike Company). They call him after another week and say Bike company declined. Shop won't give him their rep name so he calls his old shops rep. The rep tells him the shop never called him. Rep calls shop and they tell him he bought the bike from competitive cyclist, and is trying to scam them. This is after he gave them the reciept showing the direct buy on pro form.
In the end, he gets his bike back after three weeks and all the pads and rotors are contaminated with mineral oil and he has to bake them all himself.

It is amazing how bad customer service can be. The bike industry is it's own worst enemy.

[skaredshtles]

^ This. And don't forget the WSAs.

Much of the most pristine wilderness-worthy landscapes were made Wilderness decades ago. I am fine with not biking in those provided we don't keep losing more trails to new Wilderness designations. The terrain in much of these original Wilderness areas isn't very bike friendly anyways.

But we keep losing more trails. And unfortunately some of those borderline recommended wilderness areas become real W even though these aren't the highest level of pristine or untouched. They are just big swaths of "roadless" land that people convinced a politician to write a bill for. San Mateo Canyon Wilderness between Orange County, Riverside County and Camp Pendleton is older but a good example. It is mostly old ranch land and chaparral, with much of the trail network made up of old ranch roads that became overgrown. Lots of old ranch infrastructure like fences, water troughs and ponds. And a couple big equestrian communities cherry stemmed inside the wilderness boundary. I'll give you one guess who petitioned to have this Wilderness created so they could get their own private playground. Look at the map, it is pretty obvious.

https://www.trailforks.com/trails/ma...yers=landowner

I'm all for protecting these areas but there are other designations that can protect them without kicking off one or more of the major user groups. Instead we have to fight to keep our trail access, and as someone else said when these trails don't go to typical hiker destinations they just become dis-used and overgrown. We have lost a ton of legacy trails that are now locked in Wilderness that nobody uses.

If you ask even people that would consider themselves "outdoor" people around the country, I'd wager 90% of them don't even know that Designated Wilderness excludes bicycles. It's really unfortunate...

[XXX-er]

Surrons.
Fuck. These. Things.
Are they toys?
Are they transportation?
They’re not e-bikes. They’re not bikes.
Should they have plates? Kids are riding them on streets.
They’re also getting ridden through parks, on trails and multi-use paths.
They fucking suck and parents who buy them for their kids to rally around town fucking suck.



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its an electric motorcycle, there are no pedals its a quiet dirt bike , the news cast said someone up here got really hurt on a Surron and they call it that by brand name, the kid could have got just as hurt on a gas powered motorcycle

[Dantheman]

Surrons.
Fuck. These. Things.
Are they toys?
Are they transportation?
They’re not e-bikes. They’re not bikes.
Should they have plates? Kids are riding them on streets.
They’re also getting ridden through parks, on trails and multi-use paths.
They fucking suck and parents who buy them for their kids to rally around town fucking suck.



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Preach. Although in my 'hood these fucking things are the bigger problem: https://www.juicedbikes.com/products...tEHe9YGkdwDraq

Also not actual ebikes since the motors are 1000+ watts which exceeds Class 3 limits in all jurisdictions. If they were gas-powered they'd legally be mopeds and require a DL to ride on public streets. 70+ lbs, 1000w of power, square taper cranks, a 7 sp freewheel, and some no-name brakes being piloted by middle schoolers at 20+ mph without a fucking clue about rules of the road.

But I'm the asshole for refusing to buy my kid one.

[nickwm21]

Middle schools should have a charge nurse from the local ER do a presentation at parent/teacher night… “Top 5 things to buy your kid if you want to spend some time with me”


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[XXX-er]

some TGR type did post the question here asking what scrambler type e-bike to buy my kid for getting back n forth res to uni

A lot of loopholes but i think they are legal in some states

[t.odd]

Surrons.
Fuck. These. Things.
Are they toys?
Are they transportation?
They’re not e-bikes. They’re not bikes.
Should they have plates? Kids are riding them on streets.
They’re also getting ridden through parks, on trails and multi-use paths.
They fucking suck and parents who buy them for their kids to rally around town fucking suck.



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fuck they're a scourge. couple of twats destroyed the Squamish BMX track the other night doing burnouts and creating ruts in the track, even after they were confronted and asked to leave. I almost got run down on the bike path by a couple of teenagers doubling going about 60km/h on the yellow line, last week some parents and a kid were full throttling down another part of the non-motorized trail in prime time bike and family time.

I'm not even against emotos or class 3 ebikes, generally, just the fucking assholes who don't respect others enough to slow the fuck down when it's busy and congested. oh, and don't wreck other peoples tracks and trails, you fucks. I really don't understand parents letting their kids rip these around town, they wouldn't let them take a 'normal' dirtbike with no helmet to school or around town, so why the fuck is okay on a surron? "BUt ITs eLEtRic!", fucking kooks. would love for the cops to start cracking down on them.

[zion zig zag]

An old man fell on top of me yesterday. I was riding up a switchback when I see him dismount his bike to walk a "tech" section (very blue trail, easily ride-able, especially downhill). I tell him hello and he acknowledges me. Since he's off the bike I keep riding up the switchback and just as I enter the apex of the turn the dude gets back on his bike and starts riding towards me. Whatever, the trail is wide, I'll just hug the inside and give him the outside of the turn.

Wrong, he starts the turn, seatpost fully extended and just falls on top of me, pushing me off the trail downhill in the bushes and rocks, my bike on top of me, his bike on top of my bike, and him on top of his bike. He finally manages to get up and untangled and tells me, no shit, "no harm, no foul," like he's the one that gets to decide. I was so blown away by the whole thing I didn't really have anything to say.

[Boissal]

Preach. Although in my 'hood these fucking things are the bigger problem: https://www.juicedbikes.com/products...tEHe9YGkdwDraq

Also not actual ebikes since the motors are 1000+ watts which exceeds Class 3 limits in all jurisdictions. If they were gas-powered they'd legally be mopeds and require a DL to ride on public streets. 70+ lbs, 1000w of power, square taper cranks, a 7 sp freewheel, and some no-name brakes being piloted by middle schoolers at 20+ mph without a fucking clue about rules of the road.

But I'm the asshole for refusing to buy my kid one.

Saw my first one of these this morning, at the same neighborhood park which was getting torn up by asshole kids on Surrons (posted about that earlier, they haven't returned since the spring). I'm walking around with the dog and the child, see the dude come down the path and away from us on his "bike", he's moving pretty fast, around 20 mph. It takes him a few minutes to go around the park and by that time we're on a little bridge looking at the water. I hear him come around the corner, toss a ball to get the dog out of the way, snag the child, and hug the side of the bridge. Dude comes around the blind corner onto the wet wood, spots us, hits the brakes, wobbles a bunch, and almost crashes into the railing. Yells something about not standing in the middle of the road. I didn't have time to cover the child's ear, she must have learned 25 new heinous words and can now tell people to go die in a Li battery fire.

[jono]

An old man fell on top of me yesterday. I was riding up a switchback when I see him dismount his bike to walk a "tech" section (very blue trail, easily ride-able, especially downhill). I tell him hello and he acknowledges me. Since he's off the bike I keep riding up the switchback and just as I enter the apex of the turn the dude gets back on his bike and starts riding towards me. Whatever, the trail is wide, I'll just hug the inside and give him the outside of the turn.

Wrong, he starts the turn, seatpost fully extended and just falls on top of me, pushing me off the trail downhill in the bushes and rocks, my bike on top of me, his bike on top of my bike, and him on top of his bike. He finally manages to get up and untangled and tells me, no shit, "no harm, no foul," like he's the one that gets to decide. I was so blown away by the whole thing I didn't really have anything to say.

I'm not usually a fan of cameras everywhere but this sounds like a hilarious watch! Glad you're ok.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> Yells something about not standing in the middle of the road. I didn't have time to cover the child's ear, she must have learned 25 new heinous words and can now tell people to go die in a Li battery fire.

Was it in French? Please tell me all the cursing was in French.

[XXX-er]

I havent seen those around here yet, I know a ski bud has one , I think he uses it on his chunk of property but he knows its not for the area

[Dantheman]

An old man fell on top of me yesterday. I was riding up a switchback when I see him dismount his bike to walk a "tech" section (very blue trail, easily ride-able, especially downhill). I tell him hello and he acknowledges me. Since he's off the bike I keep riding up the switchback and just as I enter the apex of the turn the dude gets back on his bike and starts riding towards me. Whatever, the trail is wide, I'll just hug the inside and give him the outside of the turn.

Wrong, he starts the turn, seatpost fully extended and just falls on top of me, pushing me off the trail downhill in the bushes and rocks, my bike on top of me, his bike on top of my bike, and him on top of his bike. He finally manages to get up and untangled and tells me, no shit, "no harm, no foul," like he's the one that gets to decide. I was so blown away by the whole thing I didn't really have anything to say.

The only way this story could be better is if he was riding an ebike in jeans with no helmet.

Saw my first one of these this morning, at the same neighborhood park which was getting torn up by asshole kids on Surrons (posted about that earlier, they haven't returned since the spring). I'm walking around with the dog and the child, see the dude come down the path and away from us on his "bike", he's moving pretty fast, around 20 mph. It takes him a few minutes to go around the park and by that time we're on a little bridge looking at the water. I hear him come around the corner, toss a ball to get the dog out of the way, snag the child, and hug the side of the bridge. Dude comes around the blind corner onto the wet wood, spots us, hits the brakes, wobbles a bunch, and almost crashes into the railing. Yells something about not standing in the middle of the road. I didn't have time to cover the child's ear, she must have learned 25 new heinous words and can now tell people to go die in a Li battery fire.

JFC....